Spearfishing charters

Granitu · December 02, 2009, 12:49:41 CET

Guys, you are very right in pointing out the defects AND MANY THANKS FOR THE FEEDBACK.... but

all of us are forgetting one thing.... when are we going to try to change the perception of the authorities on spearfishing??

what i know for sure guys is that to date there are so many spear-fisherman diving and selling the one off fish.... so even if not legal... it is commercial, and i am not lying on this... it is hard to earn a profit being ethical......the law is absurd in this regard.

I can bring one FICTICIOUS case to dimension, imagine cooking a 16kg grouper?- it doesn't even fit in an oven, and filleting such fish, well it is not the best of options.

Last option, don't catch it and leave it to the scuba diver spearfisherman..... NO WAY! THAT 'S THE MALTESE WAY, all beacause of the authorities.- they see no benefit financially to protect the sea in general.... they think that a fish stays in the protected area and does not migrate..... PATHETIC! even groupers migrate.....lol

i mean to hurt no one but it's the truth can't be ignored... it is not the spearfisherman's fault who most of the times have that one off big catch... ETHICAL SPEARFISHERMAN EARN NO PROFIT, don't imagine a 16kg grouper every day like the 70's.. once in a lifetime maybe....

the fish is on the decrease, and it is not that the authorities see the potential in spear-fishing tourism... but countries like croatia, corsica see it, they are in the mediterrean.. how come??? WE ARE AFRAID TO CHANGE, AFRAID OF THE MALTESE THEMSELVES. If we create the market stronger contribution will flow to government than the local fishing market, i bet you the change in laws will be so radical....

WHERE IS THE PROTECTION OF FISH STOCK? WHERE IS THE BAG LIMIT IN MALTA?- this stops illegal spearfishing or unethical spearfishing

MORE FINANCES=MORE TAX REVENUE=MORE FUNDS= MORE JOBS=MORE POSES OPPORTUNITIES FOR POLITICIANS=MORE POSITIVE LAWS AND REGULATIONS= MORE ENFORCEMENT= RICHER SEAS
PEOPLE, I SPOKE WITH SPEARFISHERMAN THAT DIVED IN THE 70-90'S FOR FISH IN MALTA, CATCHING 4 GROUPERS OF 20KGS EACH WAS ORDINARY BUSINESS.... TODAY.. OUR CATCHES ARE PATHETIC COMPARED TO THEIRS

If there is tourism involved in Malta, the government does what it needs to be done and at lightening speed.. see the scuba diving laws... and i assure you the feedback i got from foreingers about the idea is amazing..... WE HAVE A JEWEL(MALTA AND GOZO) BUT WE DON'T REALISE HOW MUCH FOREIGNERS LOVE IT! AND FOREIGNERS ALREADY HAVE BAG LIMITS IN THEIR COUNTRIES... SO THEY FIND NO PROBLEMS IN THESE RULES.

The idea which me and divinu are developing for an assignment is something that i am considering at the moment...... but not for malta... probably if i migrate to somewhere LIKE CORSICA.. needless to say it will be a new challenge but it won't be a problem for me and the level of education i posses.

But we are so afraid to try and fail my friends, well guys... not me i am really inclined to try... failing costs nothing.... not trying costs a lot

Seahunter · December 02, 2009, 14:53:36 CET

Granitu, as I said earlier, I still can't imagine this sort of thing happening in Malta, and the reason is that in Malta one have to take many things into consideration.

Quote from: Granitu on December 02, 2009, 12:49:41 CET
I can bring one FICTICIOUS case to dimension, imagine cooking a 16kg grouper?- it doesn't even fit in an oven, and filleting such fish, well it is not the best of options.

Granitu, ONCE I had the luck of catching one of 14.5Kg. After I gutted the fish and removed the head, it became much less. Then I had cut the fish into some 4 pieces if I remember well, and gave a piece to each of the 2 buddies whom were with me. So I was left with some 2 portions and the head, which I frozen immediately except for 1 portion which I cooked. So don't always assume that big fish = $

Quote from: Granitu on December 02, 2009, 12:49:41 CET
WHERE IS THE PROTECTION OF FISH STOCK? WHERE IS THE BAG LIMIT IN MALTA?- this stops illegal spearfishing or unethical spearfishing

MORE FINANCES=MORE TAX REVENUE=MORE FUNDS= MORE JOBS=MORE POSES OPPORTUNITIES FOR POLITICIANS=MORE POSITIVE LAWS AND REGULATIONS= MORE ENFORCEMENT= RICHER SEAS

Again, altough I am one of the few whom really cares for the sea, I still think that what you wrote is naive. The = = = = = sum you made would work beautifully in most EU states, but do you really beleive that that would ever happen here

Seahunter · December 02, 2009, 14:58:32 CET

Also, I still think that you can't really stop maltese bummers from going on your charters just to find new spots.

Granitu · December 02, 2009, 15:17:49 CET

with regards to the big fish, well a grouper in proportion its head is massive. Sea hunter i am not trying to talk out of fanatsy, but out of what i discovered and speaking to CHEFS AT restaurants, hotels.....

but why not try... regardless of the project... its just an idea....

the equals sign has an assumption and is very imaginative that it looks like wonderland i know, but
think about it, without an equal sign and combine it to scuba diving charters..... does it make sense? Maybe it needs some tweaking in malta but something has changed, definately

Sea hunter i am studying models about this type of commerce for ages now, it is a concept idea for sure in europe....

but think about transmitting that hapiness you have when you catch a nice sized fish for the very first time... you remember catching the grorper 4 sure, how much you probably screamed, posed for photos

. With a good model and proper laws its possible

. You aint need any advertising in malta, maltese can come but it would be absurd if you take them to a hot spot..... many charters abroad do that.... they take you to a good spot, but not their gold mine

sea hunter, it would take time but how do you think other EU states managed, well trying and failing...... till they succeded
WE MALTESE, WE ARE ALWAYS AFRAID OF CHANGE... BUT NO ONE CAN RESIST CHANGE!!!

And many of us who go spearfishing care, i ain't earning a living from spearfishing seahunter, but this is an idea that someone can earn a living from spearfishing while being sustainable. Fishing charters exist, and in other countries they are sustainable. why not in malta?

With regards to maltese bummers, well the price would be enough to ward them off. such charters obviously can't be organised during weekends, but ratherly during work days

AIN'T THAT A FUTURISTIC VIEW OF FISHING?? sustainable, nature friendly and most of a single kg of fish generates more wealth..... Search through the forum, see the conservation debates around the forum... all blaming over fishing... over fishing occours because

Of the maltese culture(some are hell of greedy as*****s)
the fish fetches a low price

futuristic and imaginative.... but that is change... change is not the imitation of other's policies.. but the setting of YOUR OWN POLICIES, ACCORDING TO THE NEEDS

baghira · December 02, 2009, 20:54:09 CET

I will have to interevene here and also comment on this issue, since that it also interpells me in the scene....

I have immediately read this post, but decided not to comment, and let others do, and see what comes out.

To tell you all, I would have never tought that any posisive comments can be obtained from us spearos.
What I always say, (although being my opinion), I am assuming that nearly all the spearos would thing that this is a bad idea,....................... a good idea would be, if the spearos diminish in number and not increase, and when I say this I mean,.............. not us reducing the numbers, but I sometimes hope that people give up catching nothing, and since this is not their '''proper''' hobby, and they give up. An example are the many hunters who turned to spearing/fishing (Some may not agree, but that is true facts, I can count the ones I know). I know what happened to hunting, and this was also due to the many ones abusing, and so are they doing to our waters now, and this fact really terrifies me. I know how carefull I am with our seas.
I am not being egoistic, but Malta has a limited amount of shore, and the more fishing the bigger the problem. An example is driving to work in the morning at 7am, you know the amount of traffic

and that is because our size limits us.

Another opposing factor are the diving schools. They are the law.... They do the laws here. Do you know that when I was searching in regards of marine protected areas, many of the authorities directed me to phone 'Maltaqua' for more information.

What

Do you think this new concept would be a benefit for us, or would we make more damage to ourselves?

?

One other thing... Do you think that if you are making money out of it, you would give a s... about secret places?

No way, people want more fish, you would want more money, and therefore

And what about me, and my day off work..... and my beloved hobby??.... I find a couple of ribs on the jetty, or on a beautiful ridge or reef, full by another 20 people.

Granitu, You are very good in your english, and hope that you understood my poor literature, and my really my deep emotions without anything against you,as a person, but sometimes I ask myself...........Is he really a spearo? And then I try to search for some pics of you and I find none...
So what are your intentions really??? and do these intentions go in line with your opinions of marine protection or not??

Granitu · December 02, 2009, 21:53:25 CET

baghira i choose not to upload pics for a very specific reason... i spearfish for my joy nor for money nor for anything

thanks for your feedback baghira, it is very important to us. this is just a school assignment, and i already stated that if it was to choose for me, i would prefer a location outside malta for sure, and the reason is obvious, our size, and that is a factor we are taking in account

so you want a pic out of the many i got,
i will upload one and you wil say.. he's a spearo.. but will remove it after a day or two cause i ain't need to prove anything to anyone baghira... and you never saw my facebook either....
and most of the time i am diving by myself, it is hard to find buddies with the present schedule i have.. and in these times well pool training, static apnea and yoga all the way

and to date, still attend the yoga classes you organized for spearfishing reasons, remember? that enough shows how much i'm in spearfishing. How can you judge baghira??? did i ever judge anyone of you

needless to say i was very controvert and light hearted in my statements but it needed to be cause that way i could really raise the real believes from you.. and managed to.. just look at the amount of interest i amnaged to generate....

regards with greedness, well, i ain't a greedy person and don't want to be. i do believe in sustainable fishing guys, and practice it. you will notice it in my catches, you won't see small fish. Not everyone who earns a living is greedy guys.... that is a wrong percption... i mentioned bag limits guys.. that is inexistent to malta today.. but countries like croatia do have them

and the scuba centres that they are managing the law, well those people will someday kill our hobby in malta...they are managing change the way they like and want.. and finding neglible resistance to it...

the government works this way...
tax reveue+jobs= favours for you as a company... and it exists everywhere.. i won't mention shops, but many of our diving shops in malta in some way are related to scuba diving charters, spearfishing is just a diversification of product they offer, but it is not their main area of trade, with the exception of aqu*****a

the intention... this is just a university assignment, i considered the hypothetical situation of setting this type of tourism in malta, but it really does not seem the case because there is too many resistance from the locals..

i understand your point baghira, it is very right, after a hard week of work you expect that youu can enjoy the sea.. but see emic's post he raised another point,

equally valid and important... the scuba spearfisherman... 2 date still exist.. and raising a nice catch public is not exactly the right thing with these guys.... but do you know hom many accounts exist on this forum? how many people just watch and observe? And our geographical size... well it says it all

last time i was spearfishing(2 weeks ago) i was going for my car and since had a very nice catch in hand(couldn't fit it in the diving bag), a hunter(nothing against hunting/hunters but i was spearfishing near a popular hunting spot and since it was sunset....) stopped me to see it and then just to then tell me all relaxed that he spearfishes with cylinders in summer and recommended me to sell it...... well personally, we cooked it with all my family and it turned out to be delicious(10x ken for the recipie

)

baghira · December 02, 2009, 22:54:42 CET

The pics we post here is to generate enthusiasm in our forum.

We also fish for fun, I will upload a pic when I get it of our fishing days.
Last fri we were with two ribs 7 persons in all. Do you beleive we go to be greedy and catch loads, nope just the fun, and sharing of our hobby.

God you still attend yoga classes. I am sure 100% that they help a lot, and would love to attend, but my schedule, including part time jobs and hobbies doeas not allow me. Yoga is needed, for sure to be professional, beside other things.

I would do, and give my help, in order to safeguard my beloved hobby.
Just tell me how!!

Granitu · December 02, 2009, 23:06:04 CET

all we need is that the spearfishing community starts generating more funds baghira... that formula is how things work

look at italy. there are few restrictions on apnea, it is part of the economy there is investment, research and development....

we can't compare them to us but we have to find niche markets..... and the italian market if properly advertised can be one...

baghira, i let my other team member to disclose this on the forum due to some feedback obtained from foreigners.... you don't imagine how many english, welsh,french,italians,greeks visited malta, liked it but what did they complain about?? we couldn't go spearfishing..... and many who would like to visit malta to spearfish lampuki, for example... in america they are spearfished.... and lampuki is not a fish that fetches a high price...

there is a niche market for this in malta. it is an idea, free, anyone can use it... but if directed the right way and by the right people, it is a new thing to spearfisherman, and since we are in EU, legally, it can't go against maltese.

IT WILL SURELY GO AGAIINST ILLEGAL FISHING, THAT'S FOR SURE... Do you expect the gov to amend the laws and invest money in enforcing the law cause a family man enjoys spearfishing as a hobby? The law is changed for money

there could be so many other more brilliant, better ideas but this is the one i have come up with for now...

Seahunter · December 03, 2009, 21:07:43 CET

I'm still sceptic about it Granitu... but good luck with this experiment, maybe I am wrong after all...

placebo · December 03, 2009, 22:12:18 CET

well said Granitu

markcam · December 03, 2009, 22:48:59 CET

Ok, you are 100% right that there isn't anyone licensed on the island that does this, but don't just think about the opportunities.

This is my input:

1) What is the Initial investment that your company is willing to make? Lets say you have a group of 8
2) You have to consider the ROI (Return on investment), in this case you have to make a large profit margins to make it worth the wear and tear of sea equipment and rental expenses.
3)If your going for lampuki in Malta, you have to go far out for the big ones and you have to wait for this time of the year as aAmerican spearfishermen are not into 1 kg lampuki. You might try for Tuna and Sword fish.......... Surely you wont need a conventional harpoon setup but a multiband (6-8x 14mm)one which will get a lot of distance.
4) You have to be gifted enough to know the areas where these fish occur..... this you will get by trial and error. I suggest you try out the sport first and see if you get any results. If you do, go ahead.

I remember doing this entrepreneurship course and our idea was an animal cemetery. We managed to do quite well, but its not a business venture which I ever think I'll follow in my life :p

Good luck with your presentation!

ganni · December 03, 2009, 23:21:59 CET

@ Baghira

Hope i got it wrong...so im not a fisherman if i don't post pics of the fish i catch??

I don't think such a judgement is fair.

And regards granity, I assure you that he is a spearo... much more than any others on this forum!!!

Granitu · December 04, 2009, 00:26:33 CET

10x for the contribution markcam... it is a really healthy contribution. nice idea you had.. but surely it would have been the ordinary of the day seeing people crying.... $:-\$

financially speaking the investment is something that we considered and to be honest... we came up with a needed intitial investment of 100,000 euros but the ficticious firm will still entail fishing charters.... will the industry present a return on investent?

it is a concept idea, risky, needs a lot of aggresive advertising and a lot of good business relations

so we will have a 29ft boat for fishing charters
2 18ft dingies powered by 90hp motors

spearfishing charters are an additional service it offers. With regards to blue water spearfishing for tuna, haven't tried it yet but for lampuki on cimi, i have tried and managed to catch. maybe there is no quality mark, but surely there is quantity here

.. and by october from the cimi i did catch 3-4kgs examples- caught 5 in all.. ranging from 2-4 kgs. lampuki is a fast growing fish, and grows faster than we imagine

the setup for big game is different, if i ever have to rig up, i would be more inclined to roller guns which is a setup in development.. blue water spearfishing needs a very good equalising technique(you need to be more an apneist rather than a spearfisherman in my opinion- the most frequent technique used is caduta), investment on computers(nemo apneist + heart band), (depth reminders- with descent, pressure relaxes our nerves, there is no reference to the bottom and there is the competitive edge), well variable weights, extra belt reels, a boat man(essential for this type of fishing) and others...

that day i could remember, there was loads of tuna around... needless to say i didn't even bother following them, it is illegal... but it is harder for tuna... they are quite shy as a fish and it is harder than it seems on youtube- that's why i am saying equalisation is important, the descent at times has to be forced, it is not always a caduta

needless to say, the law has to change if the idea has to have any chance of success. obviously has to change in favour of ethical spearfishing (bag limits)... i would expect that if i tried, and succeded, many diving shops will start offering the service for sure.

so what really is another block in my opinion is the ability that the maltese market becomes easily saturated... take for instance the cheese cakes retailers, every corner today there's one.... who ever has a space, open a cheese cakes shop...
It's in culture in malta, we are not innovative people, we just follow

and ganni, 10x for the defence, you know me better than anyone else here

markcam · December 04, 2009, 08:15:22 CET

Granitu I understand your enthusiasm, but I'm still sceptical that you will actually make a profit from this business. The costs are too high and this will reflect in the price. For example, If I'm going to pay lets say 2000 euros for a fishing trip, will I choose Malta or another tropical country? As you know it is more abundant.

If you do it well, you might make a profit, but for sure I'm not going to see you a millionare :p

Once I manged to spearfish for lampuki, it was one of the best experiences in my life! If we ever meet up I'll tell you all about it. The biggest regret was that I was still a beginer and a 90 cm gun.

EmicMalta · December 04, 2009, 08:38:09 CET

I think it will be a good idea that someone start some thing on blue water fishing, not that big like investing on 3 boats but 1 fast boat that can handle 5 people. Cannot have big groups cos its too risky. Lampuki are very nice and even till this time of the year one can find. This year I fished in open water and its really nice when you have that good visibility and pelagic fish passing by.