Marine conservation areas

[baghira]

That was my intention skip, but I had no time to.  You're damn right.

By the way spnotta. It seems you know a lot of things though........somehow involved uhhhhhh...................acting like a consultant.
Actually I do not like funny phrases. I do a post to discussion going and not arguments.
Good for you discovering google ........................Hope you found it useful.....
I am a law enforcement officer and I do that everyday,,,, part of my job  is to look and search for EC Regulations, Maltese legislation, and that is not always so easy as it seems.
And another thing....................We also have a sign at lapsi, but the local coucil is knowledgeable about it. 

On the other hand I totally agree with you as regards the marine protected areas. I did not mean anything against any protected areas. Although I did not like your way of answering, I have to admit that you have a clear picture of the subject, and that you was of help in this post. And since we are in the dicussion, anything about Law SL425-01

[SPNOTTA]

Dear baghira, so this forum apart from lacking an appropriate code of ethics regarding sea sustainability...it is also lacking sense of humour. Shame...that is how I am...love me or hate me.

You are a law enforcement officer and it is your role to perform these find outs!!!! Maybe your offices should recruit me.  Finding these things on the net is as easy as pie. Maybe you are not taxing your grey matter enough.

As for law SL425-O1 type it in google along with other significant key words and sieve through the results. I could give you the direct link but i think it would be good traing for you.

BTW these regulations were implemented in 2007 and were on the lips of many from 2006. You are not talking to the right indiviuals and maybe you should be more meticulous in your homework. I presented all you requested "fuq plat" with all the respective citations.

humour is the spice of life.
Joking apart, if you really need the direct links I will provide them to you.

[skip]

Spnotta, the ethics regarding individuals has nothing to do with the forum so I would appreciate if you didn't link the two together, we are not here to enforce what each person does in his own time! The sense of humour or otherwise of an individual on a specific topic does not reflect that of the other 380 odd members or the several thousand people who browse through and don't post/register!

As I've said in many of my posts before, when I write something as I'm sure is the case for you as well, I'm merely expressing my opinion, nothing more, nothing less. I may be talking a bunch of crap and don't mind if someone jumps in and says so or corrects me, that's what it's all about.

I still haven't quite understood what the issue is/was in this topic that is causing conflict, but you may as well BOTH put it down to a difference of opinion or expression and say let bygones be bygones or you'll both be having a go at each other for another few pages and deviating for the original post!!

And to touch again on what you wrote, from what I've seen NO ONE really seems to have a code of ethics regarding sea sustainability, starting and ending with the government who were very happy to collect taxes and money from the fish farms putting Malta on the map in a very negative way around the world due to these activities. They didn't care about the pollution caused from these farms and allowed operators to do what they want whilst turning a blind eye and probably having their pockets lined in the process. The pariti are the worst offenders and are totally ignored by the authorities and then fishermen stay complaining that they can't earn a living.

I very much doubt that sportfishermen like us, be it trolling, bottom fishing, or spearfishing truly account for any kind of significant negative impact on fish stocks, yet we seem to be the primary 'target' as the easiest to enforce with the least amount of hassle.

[shanook]

Amen to that Brother........
There is nothing to get angry at... We get annoyed for the simple reason that its the 'one weight two measures' attitude we have in this country. To have restricted (conservation) areas is a fantastic idea. Its the only way we can help the sea to recuperate and thus having more fish to catch either for us or future generations. But the fish have to be able to reach the conservation areas not find Pariti all over the place.
All the members of this forum that I met personally take good care not too catch too much and what they shoot at or bring in boat are fish that have reached maturity. So we do our bit.
Regarding being in 2008, internet etc I know so many people who are either scared or not at easy when it comes to IT. Please respect each and every individuals ability. God created us different for a purpose and if you are a Christian than please act like one
May your God go with you all....

[SPNOTTA]

There is no personal issues here...at least from my side, I am just pulling someone's leg...

A forum is made of it's members,

Isn't it sarcatic...Stating one's fish wastage deeds whilst pointing fingers at the "pariti" ? Forum staff potentially could correct such posts in a friendly manner or at least point it out.

Rather than enforce, culturing members into sea sustainability would be optimal...sexual maturity sizes...emptying holes etc. Inform, educate...

But this all boils down to the percentage of members who REALLY have respect for the sea. As I see it and agree with SKIP most of us locals don't give a sh*t. It seems ignorane is bliss.

Eutrophication caused by inshore fishfarms depleted many of our coastal flora and fauna in past years...I see that some of us do some homework and CARE. That's good...but you know what they say ...charity starts at home...what greater opportunity to use this forum to promote sea sustainability issues, educate, culture and promote REAL sport fishing and leave the commercial fishing to the commercial fishermen.

Minorities are always targeted because they are minorities and are not commercially viable.

I DO have a code of ethics regarding sea sustianibility...I am far from perfect but thrive to respect the sea and the enviroment.

I do believe there is a God and I am sure He does not support greed or wastage.

[busumark]

the government should send any new laws by post to all those who have a registered boat or have a registered harpoon. we pay annual fees so the least he can do is to inform us what are the new laws because not everyone has internet or knows where to search for such laws

[Granitu]

skip that doesn't mean that spnotta is wrong in my opinion...... if someone does wrong that doesn't mean we should be following them(gov.)

you may as well know what they are primarily up first, money as nearly everyone. that doesn't mean-like the man jumping from had dingli myth, we should follow it.....

spnotta is right in my opinion some sarcasm and humor never harmed anyone..... better take it on the bright side in my opinion cause here in malta we have some real foolish people in high positions with no decent knowledge at all..... but ahh.... they have votes which mean power.... this is the real situation

having places where fish may breed is an excellent idea in my opinion and little fishing may be done..... just remember that fish do migrate, including sargi ect.... but the problem lies in no restrictions on ABUSIVE commercial fisherman's.. there are some real ones but some of them just do it illegally, and they should be ashamed of it.. the problem that the some in malta is a lot and i am pretty sure that these areas are being fished with nets, on of them is wied il ghajn reserve and i am sure as hell. and the persons do it do it just for fun, just for the fun of throwing a bicca parit.... i would never call it fun

even a diver hunting fish at the intent of selling them in my opinion is a commercial fisherman, who respects the law is often in disadvantage. it might be the case that one gets a fish which s too much for him, so he sells some and that can be ignored. but a diver fishing at the intent of getting as much fish as he wants harms too...

but i am pretty sure that many divers are nature sensitive, not anyone can do it decently so EVERYONE MUST respect divers, they are not a bunch of beered-belly people got up one day and say,....m let's go diving..... it needs a lot of practice and time and that is not simple......

i respect the sea.... i never got any profit from the sea, it was always a loss in monetary terms but in terms of pleasure i always gained..... and i go both spear fishing and fishing and respect a lot the sea.

i never take more than two sargi home with me, and they must at least be 600 grms..... i never shoot fish in holes, i find it very intrusive.... but not everyone does it and they could be forum members. it is a matter of opnion, i know that i leave fish and others f888 it up.

a hobby is by no means a way to earn money, it is a way to spend a nice time with good company.... i don't reveal much places for the reason that few respect the sea as i do...... but i assure you who knows me well i am always ready to help on fishing...

my father says i am mad when we troll for kubrit, i normally throw it away to live but i am sure nearly no one throws it away.. and i've seen people taking buckets of vopi sized tumbrell, and then say to give it to the cat.... there is cat food for cats..... if you love them better leave the fish alive they can be poisonous

spnotta it is nice that you are proficiently able in computer use, but not everyone is the same... like you i always find what i want but don't assume it.... not everyone is talented in the same manner. but it is nice to see a good fellow like you that respects the sea, who admits that he is not perfect, just like me but willing to do his part

THAT IS THE ATTITUDE GUYS-ETHICS NEVER HARMED ANYONE

[SPNOTTA]

Granitu you rot me to the core. ten out of ten!!!! How the heck did you scan my thoughts and feelings!!! Really I am shocked!!!

OK OK I was hard on Baghira, I sincerely apologise...honestly. My sense of humour is rather too punchy at times.

To be honest I never wrote in this forum because I was put off by some members wastage and greed and the fact they stood uncorrected!!! When I saw this thread I thought that some of you would rejoice in knowing that bubble-blower spearos and spearfishing at night with torches were banned... finally.  The conservational areas proposals should be good news!!!. I am disappointed that nobody knew about this, I mean this was a year ago!!!!

What I am really concerned is that society always picks on the minority sport fishermen and backs off when commercial fishing is involved. I mean did you check the Maltese Law way back from the 30s!!!! Have you seen the catChable sizes...isn't that a joke...I just wish that Malta adopts regulation on sexual maturity sizes and number of catches. Heavy fines for those caught with fish under sexual maturity sizes.

This is not my opinion...this is ecology sustainability...it more than ethics...IT'S A MUST!!!

I want my offspring to enjoy the sea, if something is left of it.

[Granitu]

right spnotta, it is not difficult to spot  a person who talks with passion, not for money, for what he loves, that is the trick i guess....

i guess it is nice to apologize but it is people expression of feelings, humor is part in our lives and criticism never huts guys....i never say i am correct but i stand to be corrected..... i fear much those who don't criticize rather than those who point out ideas...
in my opinion there is nothing to be put off spnotta, this a free forum and internet is a place where anyone can write what he wants....

that is the way spnotta, never give up as long as you do your part you will be rewarded for it..... rest assured..... just a hint that psychology is a lot in fishing and spear fishing especially, and i wouldn't be surprised that you have excellent result.

respecting nature is a way to gel with nature, when you gel with nature you become part of the food chain and it really gives a competitive edge....

[skip]

skip that doesn't mean that spnotta is wrong in my opinion...... if someone does wrong that doesn't mean we should be following them(gov.)

Granitu, I think you have mis-understood what I have written. Read my post and tell me where I said Spnotta is wrong or right??? What I said was don't make sweeping statements about the whole forum and assume that everyone is like that, ie. lacks ethics and lacks a sense of humour. That's like someone saying that ALL commercial fisherman are a bunch of assholes and don't respect the law. Making a statement like that is a generalisation and this is what spnotta did, instead of addressing the person directly that he felt didn't have a sense of humour/ethics etc.

[SPNOTTA]

Skip, I am sorry...it is you got it all wrong. LOL

Granitu hit the nail on the head. Actually as I said...he stunned me...I am sure he scanned my thoughts in someway.

Can't you see I was being sarcastic and intentionally bombastic when I added that comment regarding lack of ethics and sense of humour in the forum. I am not that thick!!!! Come on....Of course...the lack of humour was directed to the individual and the lack of ethics to the majority of the forum. Do I have to spell it out?

IMHO the majority of commercial fishermen are a bunch of what-you-called-them and they don't respect the sea.

Mankind is a vicious greedy entity blinded by money...but sometimes you find a mutant here and there.

Correction: I never felt that the individual lacked ethics but a sense of humour surely.

[DJS]

I tend to share Skip's concern about making these kind of sweeping statements about the forum and its members and I'm afraid I also fail to see the humour or rhetoric in some of the comments made in earlier threads.

Spnotta, most members of the MFF actually visit the site in their free time to learn more about fishing in Malta and, when they feel like it, to contribute to the light exchange of views on an array of fishing-related topics, without fear or favour. Some newer members may be put off contributing to forum discussion if met with brash replies that verge on the offensive. There are other forums available on the internet where skirmishing between members is actively encouraged, but this is not the case for the MFF.

I read with interest comments made about EU law but fully concur with Baghira's view that it is not always as easy as it would seem. With all the inherent legal anomalies, permissible national derogations, temporary exemptions and case law judgements, the accurate transposition into national legislation can be faught with problems of interpretation, implementation and enforcement... just look at the Birds' Directive as a classic case. Simple downloading of the legal text very often doesn't give the full picture.

Although, i'm not familiar with these new spearfishing regulations and do not have the slightest inclination to read through all PQs of parliamentary sittings, it would seem clear that the competent authority responsible for introducing these new legal provisions has evidently failed to effectively disseminate information to all affected stakeholders. In this respect, MFF (I guess as an NGO) could ask to be registered as a stakeholder with the Ministry for Resources and Rural Affairs and the MMA when it comes to dissemination of information regarding any future changes in legislation relating to fishing in territorial waters. In this way, as a forum, we could keep ourselves better informed on the issues as and when they arise.

The issue of ecological sustainabability of our seas, the destruction of natural habitats through marine pollution and depletion of fishing stocks through deployment of different fishing methods are, however, very valid subjects raised by Spnotta. I guess there are many different opinions on the subject. How many of us rod fishermen for example practice what we preach through adopting a 'catch and release' approach for undersized fish? Maybe with further development of such discussions within the forum such an approach could stand more of a chance of catching on here (as with other countries) with the 300 odd members. In which case, we may also solve an inherent Malta cat obesity problem which i'm sure will be revealed some day or other in one of these EU barometer surveys!

[skip]

Now that was well said and well written DJS

And whilst those who know me well can vouch that I can be extremely sarcastic, NO I did not find it funny, in fact I took it as an insult to what we have tried to create here. If you refer to this forum, then you are addressing me directly as it's creator, if you address members that's a different story and I'll leave it up to them to reply accordingly. This topic started by Baghira was a serious one trying highlight these developments and there was no need to start attaching labels, there's an off-topc board where you can say what you want.

Those who turned up at the BBQ will have heard me say that to date I have not had to moderate any threads so far, but may I also remind everyone that as the Administrator and global moderator of this forum, if I feel whether that something is getting out of hand, I will step in and take action to the extent that I feel is necessary.

Spnotta you have been a registered forum member since October 2007 yet basically this is the first thread you decided to post in, which surprises me as clearly you have a lot to contribute, your info was a very useful outline and good contribution to this thread. Perhaps you got upset by the way Baghira replied to the info you posted which I can understand as I'm sure it took you time to compile it, but what people were looking for was a definite answer from the authority concerned and a justification as to who authorised all these notices to be put up everywhere.

I know many of the spearos here are also active on Medfish but why should MFF members have to go looking for information over there, when the topic is being discussed here. May I also bring to everybody's attention the issue that for the benefit of foreigners, the majority of MFF members try and post in English even if their preferred native language is Maltese, and as a result sometimes phrases are mis-interpreted, humour and sarcasm are missed, resulting in the opposite occuring. Remember that face to face one can see a persons body language and expressions, but written down that is often lost.

I totally respect your comment 'love me or hate me', as I tend to be the same way, but sometimes one has to make adjustments and take things into account. As DJS said, I am sure we are all guilty of not adopting catch and release and definately that warrants further discussion and potentially action in the near future.

So rather than us all, myself included, ranting and raving on about this whole issue, or non-issue depending on how you choose to interpret it, let's get this topic back on track to address why it was started in the first place and avoid me having to split this topic.

And finally if any members, in any thread or topic feel that corrective action needs to be taken, then hit the Report to moderator link along with your thoughts and it will be evaluated.

[SPNOTTA]

Back to the subject...so none of you guys are happy that marine conservation sites are going to be implemented? If things are properly administered will have richer seas. Isn't this good? Regarding using flash lights at night and scuba....isn't it like cheating, unfair advantage?

Conservation...I'd like your opinion about the following;

Don't you think it is wastage to;

catch non-commercially viable fish, give them to the cats, leave them in the sun in a bucket and "recycle" them by throwing back in the sea, in large quantities that one doesn't know what to do with them...maybe one can give them to some Gozitan friends

30kg of parrot fish!!!! Why did you that??? May I ask??? I mean it's a known fact that parrot fish are an easy prey. Don't you think that was too much??? Today after 2 years of spearfishing do you still consider  a 30kg parrotfish hunt OK?

When I was a newbie I made some mitakes (which I am ashamed of)...but I am proud that greed never took over.

[Klaws]

I think Marine conservation areas are the biggest joke happening around all of the mediterrenean right now. They are driven exclusivley by commercial interests (diving and touristic areas) and political interests (satisfying EU regulations). Sustainabilty issues should be put forward and examined by real experts when proposing such areas. I'm really afraid that in a couple of years I won't be able to legally fish in my favourite places because some politician liked the sound of the word MCA without having ever heard the sound of the sea.
About the issue of not eating the fish you catch or cathing too much fish, spnotta I totally agree with you from an ethical point of view. However, Emic for example caught 30kgs of parrot fish, ate them all with friends and its a tragedy. Parit fisherman catch 5kgs of parrot fish minimum at every catch and some of them fish day in day out. Most of this fish ends up eaten by worms and snails during the night since these are caught early in the evening. And it's normal, traditional almost..

Claudio