Hi guys I am very confused in buying my new outboard engine. I am changing my outboard from a 85hp 2 stroke into a 90hp 4 stroke engine and I would like to hear from you which outboards do you find best for trolling and fuel consumption. I am very familiar to agents and for me they are all the same everyone one of them tell that their product is the best!!!!!!!! So i would like to hear your opinion
Thanks Kaptan Jr
Mariner all the way :P
Chris 8)
Thanks chris But what type optimax or EFI???? which is the most suitable for fishing???
I think the optimax is better and is direct fuel injection.
http://www.marineroutboards.co.uk/enginechoice.php
http://www.marineroutboards.co.uk/detail.php?product_id=43
Chris 8)
Kaptan Jr, I'm not sure whther to recommend the direct injection range for trolling, be it from Mercury, Mariner, Tohatsu etc or even Evinrude ETEC, these are all direct injection engines based on a 2 stroke block, and we need more data compiled from owners to see how they manage long term for extended periods of trolling at 1500rpm's or so, including data on oil usage, fuel usage, noise and vibrations etc.
I would maybe be inclined to stick with 4 strokes if you can afford the purchase price and the weight and then look for something like Suzuki (not sure now whether from Zarb stores or Mecca as it's not clear what's going on there), or a Yamaha 4 stroke. Both these manufacturers seem to be at the top of their game in the 4 stroke market. Not many people are running Mercury/Mariner four strokes. I'm not a fan of the Honda 4 strokes either, again from a perspective of market share and number of users worldwide.
4 strokes are still appear to be the quietest and happiest engines for trolling, but if I had to choose a 2 stroke direct engine due to weight savings and budget issues, I would like to try the ETEC, so that I could compare it (High pressure direct injection), with my Tohatsu TLDI (low pressure direct injection) engine.
From what I've read and what Gottie has told me, his ETEC seems to run very happily at trolling speeds without issues, so if you really want to go down a 2 stroke DI route, look that way and hassle RLR on the price, or give Nichol at Mecca a call and see what TLDI's he has.
I still haven't passed judgement on my Tohatsu 90 TLDI (same technology as the Optimax - low pressure direct injection from Orbital), whilst the engine is great in general, I need to sort out a small issue on mine in order to provide an accurate picture, because my ignition wiring loom has a broken retaining clip within the engine which I think is making an intermittent contact that could be accounting for my problem of intermittent hesitation between 1500-2000rp,. Mecca have already gotten the replacement part in to stock under warranty, I just haven't had the time to pass by to sort it out.
Once that is done and I get the boat back out for a test will be able to give better advice.
Hope this helps a bit, it's not easy to pass judgement on any engine or type until you've lived with it for a while and tried it out for a good period of time. I realised that in places I have been unfair on my engine and quick to pass judgement so I have edited things to be fair to the engine! Will revert back with updates once the part is changed
Thanks very much skip because suzuki and tohatsu are 2 of my favourite outboards but I think the new model of suzuki is brilliant. I think I'd better go for a 4 stroke engine as you said
Kaptan JR i know u like speed but for sure u like to go fishing as well so it has to be a compromise between the two.
regarding agents i would prefer one that earns his living with selling outboards only.
If a two stroke i would go for Etech
if its a 4 stroke i would go for Suzuki. the yamaha is way to expensive and the suzuki is in the same class anyway.
So in my opinion its a matter of choice they are both smooth and silent and u can troll with both.
Out of holeshot the Etech is faster.
with etech u have to buy oil and thats not cheap.
So my 3cents is a choice between Etech and Suzuki
Your Call mate
Thanks shanook I don't know nothing about etech technology. They are still 2 stroke??? And do u think are good for trolling or laying long lines???? Is there a problem with slow speed??
in 90 suzuki adom ma waslux u qedin 3 ,400 maltin man ghax ordnajt one jien
forget the etec and any other 2 stroke outbord for slow trolling and long lines. go for a 4 stroke, yamaha and suzuki seem to be the bst at the moment. i wld go definitely for a yamaha but suzuki also seem very reliable and economic, in italy suzuki 4 stroke outbords are very used, they are the most by way the most abundant, even 300hp outboards, i've seen boats with 3 of them. this is for thier low price compared to yamaha, however the latter for me are above all.
but its up to you mate, its always gd to have many opinions
Yamaha used to be king, but not anymore. They still have the name and strong brand image, but I don't think they are as good as they used to be. The new suzuki 90hp has been very well reviewed and the price is competitive, plus Suzuki's tend to have the largest displacement of the engines.
Like Ganni said, it's a matter of opinion, I'm not familiar with Gasan's service reputation on Yamaha's, but I've heard only good things about the guy who works for Dominic at Zarb
I recently bought a 140hp 4 stroke suzuki from zarb. I never had a 4 stroke before so I cannot compare a like with like but, when I compare to a 2 stroke Johnson 90 that was quite modern (2001), all I can say is it's still fast, ECONOMIC, SILENT and you can leave it at any speed starting from practically stationary upwards without any problems. The only drawback is that somtimes you have to look at the rev. counter to confirm it's still started... :-)
So far, and all I can say is so far, the after sales service from Zarb (Dominic) was impeccable!
ok guys thanks for all you help eh:-)
I dont know But i would deffinitaley go with mariner mate ;) Reliable and serius enginuity ! there great engines
Hello Kaptan JR.
you know my opinion ;D go for Suzuki. And the new models are much better in economy and lighter too.
Quote from: LapsiBoy on October 21, 2008, 16:40:20 CET
I dont know But i would deffinitaley go with mariner mate ;) Reliable and serius enginuity ! there great engines
Mariner are no longer! in the sense that they are Mercury outboards and have been for a while just with Mariner decals (stickers). They did this to keep those who were hooked on the brand when it was standalone. There is absolutely no difference whatsoever between the two engines, except here in Malta two different agents and maybe slightly different pricing. However Mercury are definately not top of the list with their mid range four strokes as they are focusing their efforts on the awesome Verado's.
so nick if its a 225hp u would choose a verado over a suzuki??
Not sure what I'd choose, they are both good big 4's......the Verado is a beautiful engine but it's supercharged so has some potential for more problems over the Suzuki, but the Verado's are beautiful engines. On the US forums the consensus is that they are very good but they haven't been out long enough to give a long term reliability verdict.
Verado 225 is 25kgs heavier than the Zuke, the Verado revs higher up to 6400rpm, but has a smaller displacement 2598cc vs the Zuke's 3641cc, they run the supercharger to make up for the power loss from the smaller displacement but I wonder if there is any advantage running a smaller displacement, less fuel consumption maybe?
There is a big difference in gear ratio's, with the Zuke have a 2.29:1 reduction vs the more traditional 1.85:1 of the Verado.
I love the Digital Throttle and Shift of the Verado along with it's Smartcraft gauges and it's really nice to digitally slide in an out of gear.
The bottom line to me would be fuel consumption and the Verado's claim to be around 20% more fuel efficient across the rev range than the Zuke's and Yamaha's, but I keep thinking of what the Americans are always saying 'Buy the dealer, not the brand!'.
I don't know how well MM2 Ltd have come up to speed since they took over Mercury/Mercruiser servicing and parts, and whether their mechanics have been fully trained and certified on the Verado's. From what I heard they haven't sold very many yet, so that means they are unlikely to have alot of hands on experience, which often comes at the customer's expense.
If I was a Verado 'launch' customer for MM2 here I would want some kind of guarantees about servicing, so that I don't end up being a ginuea pig. That being said, both Mercury and Suzuki are offering 5 years on their engines so at least we get that level of support here, it's a tough call, but if I got a good price on a Verado I reckon I would go for one!
its the displacent that is putting me off the verado. Smaller cc and more power doesnt that spell trouble. Maybe am reasoning old style, we have better materials nowadays that can withstand stresses.
my inclination is still for the suzuki
I cannot understand why the Verado is heavier than the Suzuki given it has such a smaller cc??
Rob
Supercharger mate!! Plus all the other nicities there are on the engine like DTS etc, they all add up weight wise.
But then from 200hp to 300hp the weight remains the same, as the block, engine casing, drive etc all stays as is and it's just modifications to the ECU mapping and supercharger, plus maybe some tweaks to the head to deliver the 300hp.
So if I was buying a 225hp, I would have peace of mind that I have mostly the same components as an engine tuned to run at 300hp.
WHO said that in malta they are giving 5 years gaurarntee. zuki offered three years and merc are offering two years till now , but u can buy up to five years.
price differance will make a buyer think twice. ???
if you are using your boat for trolling go to 4 stroke mate.2 stroke engines are built for speed not for trolling.E TEC ,like skip said is a 2 stroke engine but it has to be serviced by the agent as it is computerised and their service is a bit expensive.surprisingly i have a 50 hp mariner,2 stroke, 2006 model and it trolls happily at 3.5knots for hours at a stretch with no problems.my friend has an e tec 75hp and it stalls after say 30 min of trolling amd he is not happy with the engine at trolling speed, but very economical.i think verado is too big for trolling being supercharged ,besides the 300hp is 21000 euros mate!!!.i am very happy with mariner but as i said if i had to buy another one i would go to 4 stroke,less noisy and more economic.suzuki are very good as well.yamaha are super in small engines up to 40 hp but somehow the big ones do not have a good reputation.to end up i think the most popular big engine in malta is defenetly mariner ,maybe because they are the fastest
yes spiru the mariner is the most common but they don't use them for fishing. letely we are starting to use large outboard motors for trolling in malta too and 2 stroke are useless. most boats which take turists to commino are using yamaha, 2 100hp motors on each boat, they must be good heavy duty engines, otherwise such people won't invest in them since they use them for their daily work
Quote from: visa on October 23, 2008, 17:57:54 CET
WHO said that in malta they are giving 5 years gaurarntee. zuki offered three years and merc are offering two years till now , but u can buy up to five years.
price differance will make a buyer think twice. ???
Visa, MarinePower Europe http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com clearly shows 5 years warranty on ALL their Optimax's, Verado's and 4 strokes as from 1 June 2008 and don't let anyone kid you that it doesn't apply to Malta. We are part of EMEA and according to their warranty document that is where it applies, as usual the dealer is conveniently pretending that he has NOT read that as from 1 June 08 it switched to 5 years and that really pisses me off! If he has old stock pre-June 08 it won't apply probably although it still should. It is not an optional upgrade warranty where you buy another 3 years!
http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com/filereader/file/pdf/4/enen/outboard/2008/5%20years%20warranty/5_years_warranty_en.pdf
Unfortunately Suzuki 'matched' Mercury's 5 year warranty by issuing this statement http://www.suzukimarine.co.uk/promos/promo.php?id=000053
All Suzuki outboards sold in Europe carry a 2 year pan-European warranty (commercial ? 1 year). In addition Suzuki outboards imported by Suzuki GB PLC and retailed during 2008 are eligible for an additional 3 year warranty when they are registered for leisure use in the UK and Ireland.
They called it a 5 year warranty promo! But pretty cheeky that it only applies to the UK/Ireland