does anyone know how to fix carbon fibre fins?? ..... if there is a way :-\
I don't know what these fins are, but if they are carbon fibre, I guess you can fix them like you fix any fibre glass patch, but using carbon fibre resin and mesh. I don't know from where you can buy it, but I know there is locally as it is used to manufacture model boats.
It depends where the crack is!!!
I would like to add that if the fins are damaged even if you repair them keep an eye on them !!! Its not nice after a long apnea in +20m to make it to the surface with a broken fin !!!
if its broken trow it away. There is your life and even if your at the surface remember that have to head back. I had this expiriance with the omer ice fins. They brake a lot so i put them away. Before buying a fin read reviews cos there are some fins that brake even in pool training
emic i have ice fins and never broke. i find them very handy and flexible to swim with. Guess you don't now how to swim :P
Quote from: spearerr on April 20, 2009, 21:11:38 CET
does anyone know how to fix carbon fibre fins?? ..... if there is a way :-\
On medfish forum there is a tutorial http://www.medfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3838 on how to fix carbon fins ........ ;) but I guess you first have to become a member before viewing this tutorial. I use Omer Ice fins too and I like them ...... I know they're not the best but they do their job well.
It is not that emic does not know how to swim as you said spearerr but they depend on how you use the fins for example if you use them frequently for long hours there is a much greater chance for the fins to break.
Personally i know emic and surely he uses all spearfishing equipment right .
I had fins that broke in a period 3months and I had others which lasted for a year and a half never more.
i was just kidding fabrizio!! :P
Alahares ma jafx jghum edward iktar fil bahar milli fuq lart:D
I have a brand new pair of omer rekords, one of them broke for me and I put them a side not worth taking the risk of using them, even if use them for shallows only ..........When Im swimming I change my mind frequently about the depth I swim, thats why I put them aside.
Forsi dwardu ghalek jodos ghax ma jafx joghom!!
niccajta Dward.
Nahseb li kull tiswijja se tellef il flessibilta tal finn. Flahhar mil-lahhar nahseb li mhux vijabli li issewwi.
Quote from: spearerr on April 21, 2009, 10:31:30 CET
emic i have ice fins and never broke. i find them very handy and flexible to swim with. Guess you don't now how to swim :P
this is why they changed them 3 times, 4 blades and after 100 dives per fin. Pls read reviews about them. Its material is Macrolone and not plastic, which it should be undistructable. Ask seahunter how he broke the fin!
As marckam can confirm I use also a set of old Esclapse (green ones) and they keep for 5 years every set. The carbone ones I m using at the moment are very good for my weight but personally im afraid from the foot pocket but bought a couple of extra so I change them every now and then.
Ramio:every fin is studied and patent from the designer. For us are all the same looking but believe me when I say there are lots of different especially no of layers, type of carbon sheets, length, width and even cut. By repairing it I believe that its impossible to keep it of the same performance and much more safety
About a month ago we had a dive with Peppo Biscarini where we where talking about the the fins and our fining technick. He gave us different ways but even the movement of the fin in the water he had chosen the Beuchat carbon. We where diving in 18-20mtr where I was with a 5mm suit and Giovanni 6.5mm suit with the respected weights.
Quote from: EmicMalta on April 22, 2009, 07:43:33 CET
Quote from: spearerr on April 21, 2009, 10:31:30 CET
emic i have ice fins and never broke. i find them very handy and flexible to swim with. Guess you don't now how to swim :P
this is why they changed them 3 times, 4 blades and after 100 dives per fin. Pls read reviews about them. Its material is Macrolone and not plastic, which it should be undistructable. Ask seahunter how he broke the fin!
If I'm not mistaken I had read that the fins were defective and they (omer) changed the material they used in the previous fins.
At the end of the day, when buying fins and your spending quite some money into them, having a warranty is a must. The problem with the Rekords I had was that I baught them from abroad and I couldnt do anything about it.
Quote from: markcam on April 22, 2009, 09:26:48 CET
Quote from: EmicMalta on April 22, 2009, 07:43:33 CET
Quote from: spearerr on April 21, 2009, 10:31:30 CET
emic i have ice fins and never broke. i find them very handy and flexible to swim with. Guess you don't now how to swim :P
this is why they changed them 3 times, 4 blades and after 100 dives per fin. Pls read reviews about them. Its material is Macrolone and not plastic, which it should be undistructable. Ask seahunter how he broke the fin!
If I'm not mistaken I had read that the fins were defective and they (omer) changed the material they used in the previous fins.
At the end of the day, when buying fins and your spending quite some money into them, having a warranty is a must. The problem with the Rekords I had was that I baught them from abroad and I couldn't do anything about it.
the guarantee is international. I had bought mine and 1st I sent an email to Omer department where there they had forward me to go to the local shop. the inportant thing is to keep the VAT recite. They need to see the date of perchese and there is a 2 year
I had contacted omer personally ed, and they told me to go to the establishment I baught them from (Sicily).
To be honest I did go back with them, and I gave them both the fins back, they changed one of them for me then in the following weeks the other cracked again, and I gave up.
This is what the Omer boss replied on the italian forum.
La garanzia in italia come all'esetro funziona in questo modo.La sostiuzione viene fatta dal negoziante che te l'ha venduta.Spesso,se lui stesso ritiene che il problema non e' causato dal mal utilizzo del prodotto e se ne ha in negozio la disponibilita',te la sostituisce subito
Se invece non ne ha la disponibilita' ce lo segnala e noi gle la spediamo
la cosa e' ancora piu' complicata dal fatto,se non ho capito male,che la pala l'hai comprata in Italia ma vivi a Malta.
Lasciami contattare CARDONA e vediamo come posso risolverti il problema
Ciao
.........
Ho appena parlato con Cris che perlaltro mi ha detto che eri appena passato in negozio
Ti sostituisce la pala con una nuova
ATTENZIONE.Questo vale per te come per tutti gli altri.La garnzia vale se almeno si presenta lo scontrino con la data di acquisto.
I had bought it from Italy cos was half the price.
The guy I had talked to from omer had told me a different story ed....If that was the case he would have saved me alot of hassel and I would have a brand new pair of fins. But i'm 100% sure he had told me to go back were I baught them from, thats why I had given up.
Quote from: EmicMalta on April 22, 2009, 07:43:33 CET
Quote from: spearerr on April 21, 2009, 10:31:30 CET
emic i have ice fins and never broke. i find them very handy and flexible to swim with. Guess you don't now how to swim :P
this is why they changed them 3 times, 4 blades and after 100 dives per fin. Pls read reviews about them. Its material is Macrolone and not plastic, which it should be undistructable. Ask seahunter how he broke the fin!
Yes my ice fins broke after about 8 months. I dived a lot last summer so I think Emic is right about the 100 dives per fin. Fortunatley, I was in about 5 meters when it broke, because it's not nice trying going up with a broken fin.
The local dealer changed them for me because these were still with the 2 yr guarantee.
A pair of a friend of mine also broke after about a year and half, but he goes to the sea much less than I do.
maybe the ice fins don't have a good wear and tear what do you think!
It also depends on how carefull you are for your equipment.
I have to say that i saw fins that broke off with normal usage, (like seahunter's) but, there are many other ways how fins esp. carbon fibre can break, like during transportation, in ribs, on leaving the bottom, on entering water, getting up on a rib etc. so its not always fault of the fins. I have seen a pair of carbon fibre fins, (not to mention the brand), that have been sent to the manufacturer, and were repaired magnificently, but these cracked since they were drilled to be attached to a footpocket. It also depends, from where they break.
But be carefull, I never wish to go through the experience of an emergency ascent with broken fins.
plastic fins take abuse.
i agree plastic fins take abuse for general spearfishing but when you start heading towards the abyss carbon give a better performance
Hi to everybody,
We just would like to make a few clarifications and explain to the forum members a few facts that i am sure will help you make a better choice when purchasing an item or just as general knowledge to have for any future reference.
Currently this is the situation in Malta - When an item is bought from abroad, even though there is a distributor in Malta, you are not automatically entitled to take advantage of any warranty scheme from the local dealer - even if the brand or product is issued with an international warranty certificate. According to the local consumer's regulations (at least in Malta) state that the distributor in Malta is not obliged in anyway to change the broken/damaged item. However the client has two choices a) resend the product to the original shop/supplier overseas that sold him the product to be able to get warranty b) contact the local dealer to see if he (and only from his own good will) would be ready to take responsibility and change the item that falls under warranty.
It's obvious not to mention that the second option would be the better solution for the consumer since it would be certainly of much less hassle.. However if you think about it when you purchase products from overseas you may get a better price but is it really worth it on the long run ? Especially when items fall under warranty schemes........but this is a question that can have different opinions and also according the various occasions.
However a good example of this is in fact what Emic mentioned earlier. I would like you to note that we had changed the omer fins not because they had an international warranty but because we agreed with omer to change he fins ourselves and eventually wait for omer to replace them the broken ones at a later stage.
If you would have it all one way i would have thought that if someone takes the "risk" to purchase a pair of fins 1/2 price then you would have your deal - then be ready to take the risk also regarding the warranty (so having to pay shipping back and forth for the warranty change.) Anyway as Emic himself had explained we had changed his fins without any hassle and he did not have to pay extra for anything - i guess that is what you would expect in the end of the day from an outlet that represents a respectful brand like Omer in Malta.
I hope that these points can give you more to think about and if there are some other opinions i will be glad to receive feedback.
Also i would to know, Have any of those posting on this particular subject have mentioned that if in the unlikely event that your fin would break (or maybe just get a cramp during your ascent - you know.... anything that can cause difficulty to reach the surface) the first thing to go off must be the weights? I guess not..... anyway i think you get the point - drop off the weights and get as buoyant as possible. That is why you should always have one hand on your weight buckle during ascents at all times.
Guys - be safe and think with your brains not your balls ;-)
does anyone know what is the warranty law in malta since we are in the eu and we always hear that now we are in one big market that has the same rules. so i think that if i buy something from england and i have an international warranty that warranty should be good for malta because both malta and england are in the eu. maybe the local shops want us to beleive that they have a right to not respect the warranty. Does anyone knows what is the truth?
If I'm not mistaken, the law in Malta is like Aquatica is stating that means that the local company is not yet obliged to honour the International warranty. BUT, the mother company offering the International warranty is obliged to honour it from wherever you claim.
e.g. I buy something from brand X in the U.K. and it is defective however, the local representative for brand X refuses to honour the warranty. When however I write to Brand X in the UK and inform them of the problem, they have to honour the international warranty and most of the times this is done through their local distributor (not because he is obliged by law, but by the mother company).
If the international warranty is offered by a European company, and they fail to honour your claim, the consumer affairs department in Malta will assist you even if you bought the item from abroad or over the internet and the company is foreign.
thanks for the clarification benri, so basically if an item has warranty from abroad i can still pursue the case from malta, even so, with the help of the consumer departement.
Busu,
I represent a brand that has international warranty. To be fair not in the fishing market.
The deal I have is to repaire the particular item or if need be replace and then I will be refunded or conpensated at a leter stage.
The problem arise in the following areas. 1). Not all shops buy directly from the mother organisation. 2). Some decide deliberately to repair or replace only items which they have sold themselves.
The law precisely obliges a trader to repair or replace a product which he has sold. The issue or representation is different. Legally speaking one knows the company he has listed on the receipt. The rest all stands to the manufacturer.
An additional comment concerns warranties. In the UK it is only obligatory to give a 1 year warranty, whilst in Malta it is 2 years. With this being said the number of pro-visos in Malta is than greater than those of the UK.
fish-noob,
Kindly be aware that the local trader is not obliged the mother company is bound to do so. And not a common trader of the brand but you have to find the one that purchases directly from the mother company. Which is not always easily.
Yes fish-noob, certainly - they really had helped me out.
@Mellieha - If you're part of the EU, then the product is warranted for 24 months. UK also have to offer a 2 year warranty irrespective of what the commercial guarantee states.
If bought from outside of the country the local distribution has no automatic obligations......if the mother company chooses to pick up the bill and instruct the local distrubutor all well and good otherwise you have to return it to the place you bought it from or directly to the company at your own expense.
With mother companies it's usually you pay freight up and they pay freight down but not always.
As some of you know, I tend to look to buy locally so long as the difference in price doesn't exceed 10% after which I will buy online/overseas. Of course alot depends on the item, I wouldn't do it with something that would cost the earth to ship back.
I am not quite sure of the full UK regulations but on various catalogues it is clearly stated that there is a one yearb warranty
Quote from: Aquatica on April 23, 2009, 09:52:03 CET
Also i would to know, Have any of those posting on this particular subject have mentioned that if in the unlikely event that your fin would break (or maybe just get a cramp during your ascent - you know.... anything that can cause difficulty to reach the surface) the first thing to go off must be the weights? I guess not..... anyway i think you get the point - drop off the weights and get as buoyant as possible. That is why you should always have one hand on your weight buckle during ascents at all times.
Guys - be safe and think with your brains not your balls ;-)
Just to point out that, apart from being a freeediver, I am also a certified first aider, rescue diver etc This meaning that I fully agree with the statement made to release the weight belt, but since the discussion was about carbon, and did not concern any rescue, I did not mention this fact, which I also beleive it is quite obvious, and also beleive that here, many of the members are not so stupid. If there is something that is holding you from being positively buoyant, that is the thing that you have to let go first.
Having said this, I still do not wish to make an ascent with a broken fin. (which until today never happened to me)
I also hope that this comment was not directed to me, since that I have cleared out certain issues, and indeed bought a pair of such carbon fins from yourself. I also have to say that I did not comment negatively, but indeed I said, that i also saw a pair well repaired, and these were the same brand of my fins. I am still making use of my carbon blades, and never said that I am not happy with them.
As regards price, gurantee, value for money, everyone has his right to agree or not.
This was just to make myself clear. Nothing more to add, and no 'hard feelings' :)
Hope I spelled the last one right, since the last time I did mention such a saying, someone if I remember well (robby01), pulled my ear ;D
what I can say of an ascent with a broken fin is whilst diving (scuba) and I lost a fin due to a broken belt clip. This complicated by ascent highly but as was pointed out releasing the weight belt helped alot. But then the issue to to much ascent became a factor. Also not that even surface swiming with one fin is problematic.
I tried it a couple of times especially when I practised taking my girlfrend snorkeling. It is highly energy consuming.
Guys, especially us newbies to the sector, although it has nothing to do with this thread, please try out certain basic safety features.
Like quick weight release. Surfacing without a mask. geting entangled under water. This is my greatest fear.
Mellieha pls do not confuse. Be really carefull....!!!!!!!!
Whilst removing the belt is ideal for emergency cases whilst freediving, this is not the case during diving. Please try not to remove weight whilst diving.
Whilst some practices can be trained like buckle release, surfacing without mask etc, which is a great idea to practice, do not attempt to get entagled underwater for training freediving, so better practice is relaxation and attention, and examination of the area that surrounds you. A must is a good knife, or maybe even more than one.
infact I tried to start a topic on knives
Quote from: baghira on April 23, 2009, 19:10:21 CET
Mellieha pls do not confuse. Be really carefull....!!!!!!!!
Whilst removing the belt is ideal for emergency cases whilst freediving, this is not the case during diving. Please try not to remove weight whilst diving.
Whilst some practices can be trained like buckle release, surfacing without mask etc, which is a great idea to practice, do not attempt to get entagled underwater for training freediving, so better practice is relaxation and attention, and examination of the area that surrounds you. A must is a good knife, or maybe even more than one.
Thanks Baghira, you just saved me from posting the same exact words.......
As long as i understand that there are allot of guys that want to help, suggest and comment on certain topics please be sure that you write is accurate and correct - especially on delicate topics as this case of the weight release - so i repeat "check and confirm your sources" because you can give the wrong advise to somebody who has just started diving or freediving.... or any other activity.
Also Baghira..... no, our post was i no way directed to you, we have tried to keep the post as general as possible so please put your mind at rest ;-)
And regarding the consumer/supplier responsibilities - i will state the same thing - If anyone has a different version i am all ears, but when we last checked that is what we were told.
Bottom line is that if it would be possible for us to accommodate a customer with a product under warranty we will do so, but we don't want to give the impression that what ever the client does there is the law backing him because that is an illusion.
I'm glad to see how many persons have shown interest on this topic and hope that we can all use this information for the better and educate ourselves.
Oki aquatica.
Hope we meet sometime or the other in the water, and hope you still left some of the fish around for me us to catch. ;D
Good night guys, I am going to sleep for tomorrow, for a good fishing day, let's hope. Cya tomorrow SimonG.. ;)
Quote from: busumark on April 23, 2009, 15:22:52 CET
does anyone know what is the warranty law in malta since we are in the eu and we always hear that now we are in one big market that has the same rules. so i think that if i buy something from england and i have an international warranty that warranty should be good for malta because both malta and england are in the eu. maybe the local shops want us to beleive that they have a right to not respect the warranty. Does anyone knows what is the truth?
I believe that if you have a shop and sell a product under international guarantee this goes not only as customer rights but much more under customer service. If the mother company states that, this will fall on the mother company to keep her name at her standard. Even if foreigners buy an item from Malta and need to use the guarantee in their country they can do the same, and that s why they call it INTERNATIONAL GRANTEE.
As for buying it at half price that s doesn t change the guarantee duration or system. Cannot buy an item in sale at 70% and have 70% guarantee on it :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
I m sure that everyone tries to buy locally and pay money to a Maltese agents, but like skip said, there is a limit of how much we can afford paying extra money for the same products. This is not as for only diving staff but for any kind of needs. My job is in the same situation and I have to stand for that too. In case of my fins I know that I paid 1/2 price and thats why I contact the mother company first asking how the guarantee works
Naqbel 100% ma dak li qal Emic u nixtieq nzied xi haga ohra . Il ligi ta sentejn garanzija li suppost jinataw fuq l prodotti li jinxtraw fl EU tezisti hawn Malta ?? u jekk tezizti fuq lima prodotti ?? Ghax jien qatt ma inatajt garanzija fuq xejn li ghandu x jaqsam ma SPEARFISHING . L unika oggetti li xtrajt u gejt moghti 2 year warranty kienu diving computer u Maskla. It tnejn xtrajtom minghand l istess persuna , l bqija qatt hadd ma taghni garanzija fuq xejn !!!!! u kull hadd jaf l ogetti ta free diving kemm jiswew ghax ilum tixtri harpoon sew trid ma Lm90 jew iktar ma tejdx bhal qabel Lm20 tixtri wihed . kullhadd jejd li ghandu l aqwa prodott u hadd ma jaghti garanzija !! u meta tmur b xi problema l bicca l kbira risposta tkun ghax l owner uzah hazin u tibqa biz zalzetta f halqek ;) :)
il garanzija ma certu agenti tezisti u nhoss li jkun zbaljat jekk najd li le. Pero dejjem issib min jiprova jbieh u wara tarah jahrab mil problema. Personalment nhoss li qatt ma nati parir fuq haga li ma nkunx uzajt jien u kull prodott andu il limit tijaw.
Bhala garanzija haga biss ma taqax taht il ligi, jekk hija mnizla taht Toys. Il kumplament kollox jaqa taht il garanzija kemm tal ligi u iktar u iktar taht is servizz tal venditur. Personali nhoss li persuna li jiprova jahrabli mil garanzija l ahjar haga hu li ma nixtri xejn min ghanda ax kif jajdu, qasqus taqtalu denbu qasqus jibqa .....
ggant: int bhali tidhol go forums ohra u bhali taqra kif jatu il garanzija gewwa l italja. Ma nafx ghaliex certu hwienet li andom dak il backup kollu mis suppliers jirreagixxu hekk. Mhux persuna wahda tikteb imma hemm mijjiet li kellom il problemi u solvewom bejnietom. Illum id dinja inbidlet u ma adux zmien li il klijent joqod halqu miftuh u jballawlu bil kuccarina.
Fuq kollox il garanzija qeda hemm mhux al klijent pero al mother company`s name fejn il kumpanija taghmel tajjeb biss jekk il prodott johroglu difett f inqas mis sentejn mil uzu.
I think the misunderstanding is the terms of the warranty which have to be read clearly. Even EU warranty, min 2 years and all that may require you the individual to send the product somewhere in the EU to be repaired. The warranty terms will state whether you have to pay for shipping out/in because at the end of the day the warranty is on the product and not on logistics.
When an individual gets free logistics it should be considered as a value added exception and not the norm....Sames goes for the fact that there could be a brand on sale here through company X but the service center is in the UK for example. Unless when you buy the product the warranty clearly states that in the event of any problems you won't have to pay a penny, don't just take it as your automatic right because it isn't.
If your car breaks under warranty and you take it in for repair, even if you were 3 months without it waiting for it be to fixed there would be no breach of the warranty conditions....because nowhere does it state advanced replacement or hire car provided during warranty repairs!!! Anything that you are given in terms of a courtesy car is done so out of goodwill by the local company.
If I come with a product that has an EU warranty, bought from say Italy and it breaks whilst in Malta where there is a local agent......that agent is not legally obliged to fix or replace the product, it all boils down to how that brand chooses to operate. The local agent might give you contact details, and the brand owner (mother company) might choose to channel everything through the local agent, but the law has nothing to do with this.
Just because something say European warranty, doesn't mean squat without further quantification.
Good info guys
Skip: thats why i think if bought from outside Malta it s better first consult with the sales department. Every one should respect others but if then the company says that there should be no problems, I could nt see why they couldn't give the grantee. After all this would be a better service
I see that this warranty issue has really attracted some interest and it's actually a very hot and debatable topic.
However even though there have been various points of views and opinions no one yet has stepped forward and took my invitation to supply official and attendable information to support the various "theories" about warranty responsibilities, particularly referring to any local representative of a brand.
Please do not misunderstand - i am not saying that items produced and sold within the EU do not have a 2 year warranty but i am saying (also as Skip mentioned) that the brand company is solely responsible for the product it has decided to produce and distribute.
Again as stated in my previous quote - it is a false pretension to think you are going to your local dive store and he will change the item for you under warranty just because you have the law backing you. This decision is left solely to the local trader discretion nothing else. Obviously if you have a good relationship and you're a regular customer it's quite obvious that the local trader will do his best to accommodate you but again he also should do the same even if you purchased the item from another place because the trader is a representative of that brand and it's in his own interest to represent the brand in the best way, however (and be careful to the words) he is "not responsible" or obliged by anyway to replace items under warranty.
Simply if you don't like the conditions under which you are being offered the warranty you can always send it back to the mother company for it to be replaced. As some other members mentioned the world is getting smaller and communication much easier. Even more if today's clients are not anymore being "jballawlu bil kuccarina" they should smarten up and know where they stand - know what are the regulations (not just pretend to know) and act with a certain proper behaviour code, but unfortunately there are still persons that are misinformed or even worse try to bend rules and circumstances to their own advantage.
Skip also mentioned a very good point which is that the items have a warranty on the product not also on shipping and extra costs involved in the case it needs to be changed / repaired and i think that this concept is still not fully understood by some shoppers.
We have all gotten used to a certain level of service and now that has become the norm in our minds. When we don't get what we got used to, we get annoyed.......I can speak for myself here and it's only when I stand back as if I'm a 3rd party that one realises.
At the same time some vendors are misleading with their warranty representation in the sales pitch telling you that you have no problem, 2 years warranty etc and when you go to use it you encounter restrictions. This is also not proper behaviour from the vendors side but something that during the sale process we forget to enquire about.
Nowadays if I'm buying an expensive or bulky product locally I spend alot of time discussing the terms of the warranty being offered and the level of backup support, spares, qualified service technicians etc before I buy.
Otherwise I may as well save sometimes a considerable amount of money and buy online and then it's my problem with either the online seller or the mother company to sort out if the product fails. Simply put if I'm paying a premium for buying it locally then I do 'expect' however right or wrong a full no quibbles warranty. Unfortunately with the limited volume that local vendors purchase sometimes their selling price is so high when compared to online because their purchase price was high due to low volumes. When you're a small country and therefore a small vendor, manufacturers don't give you much price support.
Quote from: Aquatica on April 23, 2009, 09:52:03 CET
Hi to everybody,
We just would like to make a few clarifications and explain to the forum members a few facts that i am sure will help you make a better choice when purchasing an item or just as general knowledge to have for any future reference.
Currently this is the situation in Malta - When an item is bought from abroad, even though there is a distributor in Malta, you are not automatically entitled to take advantage of any warranty scheme from the local dealer - even if the brand or product is issued with an international warranty certificate. According to the local consumer's regulations (at least in Malta) state that the distributor in Malta is not obliged in anyway to change the broken/damaged item. However the client has two choices a) resend the product to the original shop/supplier overseas that sold him the product to be able to get warranty b) contact the local dealer to see if he (and only from his own good will) would be ready to take responsibility and change the item that falls under warranty.
It's obvious not to mention that the second option would be the better solution for the consumer since it would be certainly of much less hassle.. However if you think about it when you purchase products from overseas you may get a better price but is it really worth it on the long run ? Especially when items fall under warranty schemes........but this is a question that can have different opinions and also according the various occasions.
However a good example of this is in fact what Emic mentioned earlier. I would like you to note that we had changed the omer fins not because they had an international warranty but because we agreed with omer to change he fins ourselves and eventually wait for omer to replace them the broken ones at a later stage.
If you would have it all one way i would have thought that if someone takes the "risk" to purchase a pair of fins 1/2 price then you would have your deal - then be ready to take the risk also regarding the warranty (so having to pay shipping back and forth for the warranty change.) Anyway as Emic himself had explained we had changed his fins without any hassle and he did not have to pay extra for anything - i guess that is what you would expect in the end of the day from an outlet that represents a respectful brand like Omer in Malta.
I hope that these points can give you more to think about and if there are some other opinions i will be glad to receive feedback.
Also i would to know, Have any of those posting on this particular subject have mentioned that if in the unlikely event that your fin would break (or maybe just get a cramp during your ascent - you know.... anything that can cause difficulty to reach the surface) the first thing to go off must be the weights? I guess not..... anyway i think you get the point - drop off the weights and get as buoyant as possible. That is why you should always have one hand on your weight buckle during ascents at all times.
Guys - be safe and think with your brains not your balls ;-)
Quote from: Aquatica on April 23, 2009, 19:41:04 CET
Quote from: baghira on April 23, 2009, 19:10:21 CET
Mellieha pls do not confuse. Be really carefull....!!!!!!!!
Whilst removing the belt is ideal for emergency cases whilst freediving, this is not the case during diving. Please try not to remove weight whilst diving.
Whilst some practices can be trained like buckle release, surfacing without mask etc, which is a great idea to practice, do not attempt to get entagled underwater for training freediving, so better practice is relaxation and attention, and examination of the area that surrounds you. A must is a good knife, or maybe even more than one.
Thanks Baghira, you just saved me from posting the same exact words.......
As long as i understand that there are allot of guys that want to help, suggest and comment on certain topics please be sure that you write is accurate and correct - especially on delicate topics as this case of the weight release - so i repeat "check and confirm your sources" because you can give the wrong advise to somebody who has just started diving or freediving.... or any other activity.
Also Baghira..... no, our post was i no way directed to you, we have tried to keep the post as general as possible so please put your mind at rest ;-)
And regarding the consumer/supplier responsibilities - i will state the same thing - If anyone has a different version i am all ears, but when we last checked that is what we were told.
Bottom line is that if it would be possible for us to accommodate a customer with a product under warranty we will do so, but we don't want to give the impression that what ever the client does there is the law backing him because that is an illusion.
I'm glad to see how many persons have shown interest on this topic and hope that we can all use this information for the better and educate ourselves.
Quote from: Aquatica on April 26, 2009, 16:43:26 CET
I see that this warranty issue has really attracted some interest and it's actually a very hot and debatable topic.
However even though there have been various points of views and opinions no one yet has stepped forward and took my invitation to supply official and attendable information to support the various "theories" about warranty responsibilities, particularly referring to any local representative of a brand.
Please do not misunderstand - i am not saying that items produced and sold within the EU do not have a 2 year warranty but i am saying (also as Skip mentioned) that the brand company is solely responsible for the product it has decided to produce and distribute.
Again as stated in my previous quote - it is a false pretension to think you are going to your local dive store and he will change the item for you under warranty just because you have the law backing you. This decision is left solely to the local trader discretion nothing else. Obviously if you have a good relationship and you're a regular customer it's quite obvious that the local trader will do his best to accommodate you but again he also should do the same even if you purchased the item from another place because the trader is a representative of that brand and it's in his own interest to represent the brand in the best way, however (and be careful to the words) he is "not responsible" or obliged by anyway to replace items under warranty.
Simply if you don't like the conditions under which you are being offered the warranty you can always send it back to the mother company for it to be replaced. As some other members mentioned the world is getting smaller and communication much easier. Even more if today's clients are not anymore being "jballawlu bil kuccarina" they should smarten up and know where they stand - know what are the regulations (not just pretend to know) and act with a certain proper behaviour code, but unfortunately there are still persons that are misinformed or even worse try to bend rules and circumstances to their own advantage.
Skip also mentioned a very good point which is that the items have a warranty on the product not also on shipping and extra costs involved in the case it needs to be changed / repaired and i think that this concept is still not fully understood by some shoppers.
i quated the above cos somewhere there is mentioned the need to supply official and attendable information
just had a call from http://www.camalta.org/sw/index.html. They second my opinion regards the 2 year guarantee within the EU and the respected mother companies.
Who need to check for more information can call on 21221901
They told me that if the agent in Malta is a representative of that firm, he needs to give his service as how other countries must do for the product he is selling. the most inportant thing is to have the VAT recite.
Emic,
'if he has been given a franchise'. This is the key term here. I totally agree with you. If the firm has been given a franchise than the maltese trader is bound by the francising contract to remedie.
I think that in the majority of cases in Malta we only have an importer, with no francisee obligations. An example of francise would be Mc Donalds.
If however you have bought from a francisee then you are right. But I doubt how many there are left. Being a francisee entitles dealing exclusively in one brand.
No offense to anyone but just some clarifications to live in better mind.
Emic, please make sure you have obtained consent from Mr. Farrugia to upload his response on to a publically accessible forum/site. This is important to avoid any issues, and applies to everyone who uploads a letter or information that was addressed to them.
a Franchise not only entails in dealing with one brand, but also involves in standardizing the service too. A franchise often then requires to pay a premium price for the "goodwill" obtained from the mother firm.
i am sure than many firms in malta do not possess the required finances for such system. Aquatica, just like expo, the msida warehouse is an sme firm and doesn't satisfy the criteria.
misterfish, on the other hand is a form of franchise represented throughout italy north and some in the south for sure under the same logo and service. that is a franchise
Quote from: Granitu on April 28, 2009, 16:42:17 CET
a Franchise not only entails in dealing with one brand, but also involves in standardizing the service too. A franchise often then requires to pay a premium price for the "goodwill" obtained from the mother firm.
i am sure than many firms in malta do not possess the required finances for such system. Aquatica, just like expo, the msida warehouse is an sme firm and doesn't satisfy the criteria.
misterfish, on the other hand is a form of franchise represented throughout italy north and some in the south for sure under the same logo and service. that is a franchise
as you said there is nothing personal but just clarification of our garantee terms.
Skip: My mail was addressed like any information request and I didn t mentioned any firms or any local shops. It s just a general question.
in my opinion it is good to know our rights and clarify them with suppliers.
also emmanuel farrugia will not be disappointed about emic quoting him for sure.
it is a way of educating and surely if it helps them to inform the public about their rights, which in certain instances in malta it is difficult to do. a very positive contribution in my opinion, clarifies a lot of things and rights
Thats the key word Francise guys so kindly keep in mind.
After all it seemed that everybody was right in his way. Conclusion very informed traders and very informed public but what might lack is the accurate precise info on both. In legal terms a word may seem to change the whole meaning.
Quote from: mellieha on April 28, 2009, 17:11:38 CET
Thats the key word Francise guys so kindly keep in mind.
After all it seemed that everybody was right in his way. Conclusion very informed traders and very informed public but what might lack is the accurate precise info on both. In legal terms a word may seem to change the whole meaning.
exactly that is the goddam law. one word, one law, MANY INTERPRETATIONS