Currently we have a maltese Luzzu 19 ft in length which we intend to sell and preferrably upgrade to a boat with more speed. At the moment we have put our eyes on a Petecraft - Fast Fisher 22. The main aim is for fishing although we will also use it as a pleasure boat as well. I have some questions which I would greatly appreciate any opinions on them.
1) We work a lot with fishing nets (Parit) or bottom lines. Anyone with this type of boat has any personal experiences i.e is it comfortable for such type of fishing? can a winch be easily fitted?
2) any suggestions for the engines - what is best 2 inboards, outboards or z-drives?
3) to achieve at least 30 knots which are the most economic engines on the market?
4) any ideas of cost for the engines?
Thanks a lot friends
The fast fisher 22 which i have seen lately are fitted with outboard engines. They range from 200 to 300hp. If you go down to B Bugia you can see some of them.But since your primary aim is for fishing nets etc the outboard may be in the way so an inboard would be better i guess.never fished with these types so i cant tell exact as you know far better what is involved. But you have also to consider the cost weight and space in this regards.Hope this helps.
FIRST OF ALL THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY. Infact that's why i asked for some assistance as i dont know whether such boat is comfortable to use for fishing with nets. It is true that most of them are being fitted with outboards however I think that for the type of fishing I mentioned i.e parit and konz these will be quite obstructive. On the other hand having inboards on such a boat most probably won't leave enogh comfortable space to work. Anyone have photos of the rear space of a Fast Fisher with onboards?
Thanks.
For fishing inboards are the number one. for many reasons like the working space at the stern, hydrolic, economy etc.
Hello Nivram017. I have a Petecraft 22 with a yanmar inboard. Don't worry about lack of space in that boat because it is very deep. I have a yanmar 350 in it and the engine box is only 8 inches high. Since you will use your boat more for fishing, I would suggest installing an IVECO, STERY or Yanmar not more than 250hp in it. You should reach 27-30kts easily with such engines - shaft driven. I dont see any reason why you should install two engines of the same size because of the cost of fuel and space issues. For safety reasons, you can easily fit an auxiliary engine at the back of the boat, just behind the main engine, using the same rudder of the main engine while having a prop that opens when it rotates and close while idle. Such engine like a Kobuta, Sole or a 27hp yanmar should be buried all underneath and will not occopy precious space at the back of your boat.
The boat is very comfortable, having a very dry and smooth ride. I know people who have installed a winch on it and use it for parit and long lines. I think I have some pictures showing the inside of my boat and if so I will post later on today.
Having said this, I can't wait to sell my engine and power my Petecraft boat with a big powerfull outboard....performance wise there is no comparison between a marine diesel engine and big outboard!
Hope this info helps you Nivram....
do you have a price in mind for that engine?
Don't know yet......If I sell I would prefer to sell the whole lot, engine, gearbox, shaft, prop, insomma everything related. Engine still brand new with only 100 hrs on it...will not sell it for cheap considering that it cost Lm11,000 brand new and having a new US 4 blade nibral prop costing Lm600.
Anyway if anyone interested I have two brand new old stock yanmars for sale, one 125hp and another one 27hp.
@ NIVRAM017 my friend wants to sell his fast fisher 22 it has twin yanmar 140 and fully equipped for fishing including winches radar gps fishfinder. if you want to speak to him phone him 99271426 or PM me. i posted photo in the gallery
Thanks Busumark I have already contacted him yesterday. Unfortunately it does not match exactly my criteria. That's why i was thinking of building a new one! At the moment I think it would be better to have some more power thats why I also asked for any suggestions.
Shaftbomb do you have any idea of how much one of the engines you've mentioned i.e the Yanmar or the Iveco will cost? Thanks.
If you are looking at brand new engines plus gearboxes and at 250hp range, keep in mind that you will spend at least LM6500. Yanmars do come in 240hp - excellent engine, great acceleration and throws out plenty of power. Iveco are becoming more and more popular. I know the Gaffer has a steyr, also in that hp range and you can speak to him about it.
Are you looking to acheive a 30 knot cruise speed, or maximum speed?
To me something that not many boat builders or suppliers can provide locally are accurate fuel consumption figures, with an rpm/speed/consumption chart. This to me would be the most critical factor when choosing the boat's powerplant.
With the advent of modern ECU/ECM controlled engines even on the diesels many of these support some kind of interfacing either via a laptop or special digital gauges which can in turn display the boats fuel consumption and more importantly nmpg or nmpl (nautical miles per gallon or nautical miles per litre).
It's the one additional nice to have instrument that I recommend on every boat, the ability to monitor your fuel flow and associated distance per litre burned. I'm not a believer anymore when people say oh run that engine at 3,000rpm it's the sweet point and you won't use alot of fuel as they are usually wrong!
Hook up the right equipment you can immediately see that a small adjustment to the throttle, engine trim or trim tabs can suddenly present you with much more economical figures, whilst also being able to accurately calculate your fuel remaining, fuel used etc. Turn around the corner and meet the wind from a new direction and the gauge will show you a change requiring you to re-trim the boat....but just how many people do that!
My advice is steer clear of Z-Drives if you are going to be using the boat extensively and for long hours, they simply aren't designed for that use and will cost you dearly in maintenance.
It's shafts or outboards and as Lapsi pointed out for the type of fishing you intend to do, perhaps bulky outboards on the back might not be ideal.....although if you did consider them be sure to check out the Suzuki 4 strokes....awesome engines.
Thanks for your advice. I like the idea of having some instrument which can give me some idea of the fuel consumption. Are they expensive to get and are these available locally? Most probably i will look for an inboard. Regarding the speed its obvious that the more I can get the better, however there are both initial and running costs which i have to consider. At the moment the boat we have is equipped with two diesel engines (A volvo penta and a Saab ) which are both quite economical and i dont want to upgrade to the new boat and get a shock with the diesel costs!.
Power and speed do come at a cost - FUEL ;D
Shaftbomb is the Lm6500 value you quoted for a single engine or two? Excuse me but i do not have any idea of the expenses involved yet. I am still budgetting and that's why i'm doing all these questions. What type of boat does the Gaffer has?
Nivram no problem with asking questions....Regarding prices of engines, I would say you need LM6500 for one brand new engine for that horse power, but shop around, there are many marine diesel engine dealers in malta and prices do vary. Japanese engines do tend to be on the higher price side than european ones but usually have a better weight to power ratio. From what i am seeing IVECO are becoming more popular both in Malta and Gozo. Ask the guys at petecraft.....they just installed an iveco engine on their new hull - the 20ft fast fisher.
Hi Nirvam. Watch out for my post tomorrow on steyr and volvo penta.
Hi Gaffer, Shaftbomb told me you have a Steyr 250hp on your boat. First of all what type of boat do you have, and what are the top and cruising speeds you get? does it consume a lot of fuel? Thanks mate!
Hi Nirvam, as promised here is a complete reviwe on the Steyr 246 Hi Power Common Rail Marine turbo diesel engine. My boat is a Trojan 26 Flybridge, weighing in a over 5 tons!. High Cruising speed is 20kts and top speed is 25kts. However, don't judge the Steyr on this hull, as the top speed for the Trojan hull is 25kts.
I know of a Steyr 236 fitted on a buccannear 205 with speeds over 35kts!!.
The engine is as I put it, state of the art. Fully electronic, backed with a professional after sales service which is second to none. The engine boasts the best weight to horse power ratio, meaning that for every 1kg of engine weight, you get almost 0.7HP from the engine. By all means, it was the lightest engine in its category when I bought it. Fuel economy is a blast. Normal 8 hrs trolling with a fast arrival and return to the 2nd ridge off filfla and back to Msida Marina comes in at about 90lts for the whole day. This is also dependent on the number of people I have out on the boat with me. The fuel injection system is made up of two stage injector units, meaning there is no fuel injection pump involved. Very efficient, low noise, and boasts the lowest emmisions in its class at the time of purchase.
If you would like to see the engine, just PM me, as I'm on leave all this week.
Now
Hi Gaffer thanks for the info you posted! Regarding fuel consumption it sounds quite economical for that size of engine and the trip you mentioned. I will take it into consideration. With regards to your invitation I really appreciate and thanks a lot but at the moment I m quite busy. In case i will have some spur time i will PM you!
Thanks once again!
nivram last year the yanmar 110 hp with gearbox was LM6000 so i think a yanmar 250 hp costs a lot more tham LM6500. check leonard at rabat he has big engines and not expensive compared to the others
i was talking with leonard and he has some new modern eletronic marine engines. you can phone him 99499082
Nivram, when deciding on your engine choice take everything into consideration, weight, size, power, max rpm (very important) and also very important: transmission ratio. Also do ask if the engine you decide on was installed in the same or similar boat, so that you know what prop size to buy and not spend money changing props. Engine choice is vast, IVECO, YANMAR, STEYR, SOLE, NANNI, MEGATECH, VOLVO, CUMMINS - ETC - they all have local sales representatives.
hi dear friends and all contributors, thanks a lot for your information its quite valuable and surely worth considering!. Today I came across a Fast Fisher 22 with a Yanmar 300hp installed. A friend of mine told me that such an engine may cost around Lm9000 if new, this one has c 280hrs working and the price for the boat is not so bad in my opinion. The owner also said that his boat reaches 43knots and cruising speed is around 30knots. What I am still a little bit worried about is that first of all what should i do regarding a supplimentary engine and when you are using the boat for example for trolling?? (bir-rixa) then will the engine run economiccally since it is a large engine and will be used at a very low speed?
Thanks Once again! ;) ???
When trolling that engine will be economical and as for the supplimentary engine, throw a 20-25hp outboard at the back.
nivram tell him to go with him to test the boat and if he doesnt have a gps take a handheld with you so that you will know the real speed. also take into consideration what weight you will have on the boat. it makes a difference if when you go to test it you are only two peolple and from when you are going fishing with all the fishing gear and other things. in malta i think some people have very different gps from each other because they start saying speeds that are a bit hard to beleive. even the one that you mentioned of the boat sometimes says some difficult to beleive speed. i dont know but a 300 hp engine even on idling it consumes fuel and i think that engine has more than 3 years so its not the latest technology
Nirvam, I fully support Busumarks suggestion. I am not too sure about the 30knt cruising speed on a hull like that, not to mention the 43knts flat out :o :o
Each hull is designed to perform at a given speed. Not even the famous Bertram, which without any doubt is the best hull in the world for fast fishers, can achieve those speeds quoted by your goodself further up. So, yes, by all means, go out for a 'testdrive', and take a handheld GPS. Also test in different weather conditions, say with wind speed at F2-3, then F3 and F4, and F5. Test the boat going up wind and down wind. Take particular notice of the boat handling capabilities in somewhat choppy water. Allow me to give you an example:
My Trojan 26 has a hull designed by Bertram. It is powered by a 250HP High power Steyr Marine Turbo diesel. Hull speed design is 25knts. That's as much as the hull can take before becoming dodgy and unpredictable. True enough, if I try going over the 25knt limit, the hull behaves eraticlly. She's a star in head on waves, with her open bows breaking the waves and opening up a path, I can do 18-20knts in F5 head on winds. Not the same when it comes to down wind. Because of here beamy transam, she's 10 feet wide at the transam, the boat will pitch and dive when waves or swell hit her stern. So I have to drive at 13-14 knts, trim tabs up (to get her stern in the sea) and try and outrun the following waves.
I have seen overpowered boats in Malta. Their behaviour is very unpredictable.
So again, heed Busumark's advice. Go out for a test run in different conditions, and take a GPS with you. ;)
That's a good advice thanks a lot. Thanks to this forum i will surely make a better decision and I'm getting aware that I don' t know a thing on these things! I was also told that it has a trolling valve??1, for slower speeds , I will surely have a test drive before getting it however I'm still quite confused! I also agree that 43 knots are quite difficult to achieve. So do you think the boat is overpowered with a 300hp engine?
onto another related subject guys.... do you think that a hand held gps or any GPS for that matter can be truly relied on for accurate speed reading? I do indeed 'rely' on my fixed GPS to take speed readings however I deal with this on a comparetive/ relative measure and not absolute speed.
steave if you take a handheld and a fixed gps they give the same reading. i tried the handheld in a car that has a digital speedometer and they give the same reading altough the gps is a bit less than a second delayed fron the car s speedometer
Great idea busu. Some "ppl" also told me that GPS reading is not accurate and should not be relied upon :)
Busu.. I guess you are right in a way... however rest assured that the way GPSs read velocity has a lot of embedded limitations.... imma for our purpose here I guess its ok..
the gps gives you the speed but it doesn t take into account the wind and curent velocity that is why you have to take 2 readings in opposite directions and than take the reading in between. sometimes there is a difference of more than 2 knots if you are going against or with the current
Its true that current and wind affect the speed of the boat . I have noticed this several times during our fishing trips. Considering this it is still difficult to specify the exact speed of a boat since there are a number of factors which affect it example wind direction, force, current, live load onboard etc.
Quote from: Moonwalker on August 06, 2009, 22:17:35 CET
Great idea busu. Some "ppl" also told me that GPS reading is not accurate and should not be relied upon :)
Huh??? That's news!!!
Speedo's are totally inaccurate and should not be relied on, but not sure who told you that about a GPS!!!
Aside from a 1 or 2 sec delay they are the most accurate method after a Radar gun which is what tends to be used during boat tests.
Aircraft use it for navigation to display their ground speed along with a Pitot Valve to display their airspeed.
Our equivalent is the water speed which is measured either from a paddle wheel or simialr pitot tube using vacuum pressure from a water pickup. So the GPS displays speed over ground and the other displayed speed over water. Water speed should take into account current etc.
As busu said to get an accurate max speed you do opposite runs, but that's just for a max speed.
Thats why I wrote that Skip. Afaik GPS reading is very accurate. But when I asked why my boat is not reaching certain speeds they told me that I should not rely on GPS reading...duh.
Drop me a PM about the speed problems or you can open and we can discuss in another topic.
Will see how it goes with the Trimtabs and then post new topic.
I have also been told that the boat engine is equipped with a trolling valve, can someonplease explain what is it exactly and whetehr fuel consmption will be affected?
Trolling valve - as the name implies is another throttle for use in slow speed, ex when trolling. Do not overuse it as you may break up the gearbox.