I believe that most of us fishing for lampuki have met up with other boats when fishing on the same FAD or on the same 'line' of FADs. I believe that prudence is key to this sort of sprots however this is not always the case. So you get baots coming staright at you when you are trolling on the FAD, boats coming on your lure, boats speeding up to catch the next FAD, boats hooking up the FAD for pilot fish, boats that keep on going on FADs way out of Malta (ex. > 10 - 20th etc), boats that hit the FADs at sunset (worst thing for the big guys etc etc)
Would like that we all discuss this topic as to maybe make people aware of what the ethical issues are and possibly stick to some unwritten codes..
steve I see your point but going on a commercial fishermen FADs is illegal whether is the 1st 2nd 3rd or the 100 and I don't think we should discuss illegal activity. One can go only on those given to fishing clubs called tad-dilettanti after paying the fee (if they still exist). I remember when I was a member in those of MArsa scala they used to give us a sticker to attach some where it can be well seen on the boat. And yes the behavior of some boat owners was more than selfish and "ta min u l-aqwa ihawwel"
To be honest I am a member of the ones in Marsascala & I have only been there once for 30 min & left the area due to same reason as Stevea said. It seems to be the same problem everywhere due to everyone complains about people just looking after themselves & do not think twice to come straight at you & driving over other peoples lures. I think this comes only down to 1 problem which is inexperiance , just a matter of going to the Fishing tackle Shop buy the trolling line & off they go. Without asking anyone how they would need to troll , speed etc....
I will mention it to the organiser in Marsascala of the FAD's due to the sticker system is a good one. This is surley not the case anymore & hopefully he could ask the member a couple of questions & explain the do's & dont's whilst trolling near the FAD's.
Tatanka, I suggest that u do something which is more visible than a sticker. If Boat A is trolling the fad and Boat B coms along that is a member and doesnt notice the sticker he keeps going and tries to push aside the Boat A as he thinks that boat A does not have a right to be there.
Sae thing happens at St Pauls Fads, At last here they use flags andeven these are sometimes not visibly displayed
Thanks for the suggestion , I will pass it on to the organisers.
Fisheye.. you are r ight .. we should not do anything illegal.,.... but ,,, A BIG BUT! Who has not visited the professional FAds? How many of us stayed away from these?
My opinion is that when one knows how the profesional fisherman use the FAds then one can somehwat enjoY them without doing any harm. If the owner of the FADs meets you in the morning or afternoon.. am sure he will not bother too much. \his interest is in netting the lampuki at night... the shoals of lampuki that gather under the current from the palm leaves. I do not see why trolling in the morning can effect them!
Anyway.. i find it very irritating that boats come towards you when trolling round a FAD. I believe they should allow you the few minutes to enjoy the fishing. At the end of the day you would have spotted the FAD before the other boat.
Few days ago... a fast speedboat was behind me ( I was on the FADS before sunrise and therefore the first on the line),,,,, after two FADS...the boat speeded up before me. Obviously I was not interested to speed up and end in a speed contest. However I do feel that it is somewhat arrogant,,,,
I know how it feels cause last year it happened to me as well on st pauls bay fads.This guy passed me by a couple of fads then i passed hm again...then he passed me again and waved to me .........and then qlajtlu il familja and he left...remember bigboy??
well, actually when i go to fads i never follow the chronological order, normally i mark the lst good fad and begin 2-3 fads before it, that's how i do it... but always cruise no more than 5 knots
fortunately when i go( during working days, always) never see a lot of boaters around
sat and sun seem to be killers for the abuse
sometimes it's like the boat formula one..... everyone full throttle for the first FAD.. really not worth going on weekends ..however
Well for those fortunate enough to go during the week it is a better option and not so crowded.
for the above reasons I simply do not enjoy fishing for lampuki and hardly ever go any more. last i went a professional fisherman friend of mine gave me the coordinates of his cimi and told me that i could go fish on them. the first one was 25miles out so i found no one there.....
ed
hehe been out there today how nice going out for lampuki by yourself, with the rest of the crowd in search for puki near fads, crossing and dangling each other lol
really many think that puki is always near fads,,,, lol
morru u hudu gost... u aqbdu kemm imisskhom ghal gurnata..
The way I see it is that if there are others on the FADs and they are not catching than it is useless to go around them unless you have some holy water with you. I would rather do as Granitu said and look somewhere else than staying into that swarm of boats.
Granitu... it is a proven fact that Lampuki will always gather round the FADs at night time. Accordingly on sunset and sunrise these tend to gather round. As the day progresses the shoals will move round in search of their prey. Boats with lures will tend to move the shoals away from the Fads... until they will finally gather again under a different Fad. So basically you are right... and wrong. Early sunrise you will definitely get strikes close to FAds and nowehere else.
I do not find it amusing going round a Fad when another boat is there... it takes away all the fun.
Another point.... I actually had a break from lampuki fishing as I caught all I, my family, extended family, neighbours, freinds etc wanted to eat .. and therefore could not find myself catching more for the fun of it.
I cannot understand some of you (yes this is a critisism). How do we accept to discuss on a forum for all fisherman ways to disrupt fishing for others (btw using other peoples fads is illegal).
To those who argue that this post was opened to discuss the possibility of the forum laying our own fads I may say that there are at least 2 topic already discussing or mentioning so. Some have confirmed that when they are on a line of fads and it is to busy they simply find a new line of fads.
I as a fad layer nearly every year find myself outnumbered and utterly disgusted by all those who think that by passing near a fad no harm is done.
I discussed this in detain last week on a post on this forum. Even passing on the ''black spot'' i.e. where lampuki are is enough to scare away the fish.
Notes: Not all fisherman work at nights, so some arguments are nill.
Why not mention all those are so stupid that decide to see you trowing the net and doing the dawra and still approach you even trying to pass between you and the fad. Isint this stupidity.
Yes you people with no MFC or cimi permits should fish for lampuki in areas where no legal fads are present.
Thanks
Mellieha
100% correct mellieha, i am presuming that this conversation is revolving round the fads layed down by the clubs or fads laid by the amateur fisherman. There is no excuse whatsoever to use fads that dont belong or u dont have permission to use, even more so on commercial ones as they are the bread and butter of the fisherman
Mellieha i agree with you 100%
You're right Mellieha but commercial fishermen are hardly stellar examples of people who uphold the law!! In fact they are well known for breaking the law in as many ways as possible, just like recreational fishers do. Of course I am making a big generalisation but still we all know what goes on.
Two wrongs don't make a right etc etc, but just like we see illegal and undersized fish in the fish market, some might reason what goes around comes around hence have little respect for worrying about fishing on someone's cimi. Through people like Bigboy's posts and pictures we can get a better idea of the hard work, cost and effort that goes in to commercial fishing, something that probably most of us don't really appreciate, and this helps bridge the gap and mutual understanding. Some commercial fishermen blame recreational fishers for reduced catches as we like to blame them etc etc.
No one can disagree with what you wrote about the legal situation, though in my opinion however unpopular that may be, commercial fishermen cannot expect by right to have their cake and eat it, how and when they like. It's a fact that they are going to get people fishing on their cimi and it's impossible for them to police their cimi line, just like it is impossible for the AFM, CPD etc to police and monitor their fishing activities to ensure they are not breaking the law.
I believe that Stevea opened this topic to discuss the ethics behind fishing on a FAD that isn't yours, just about everyone knows it's illegal, so it boils down to morals and ethics something that tends to be thrown out the window very quickly when temptation arises.....ie You cannot see a vessel in sight and you notice a Cima full of lampuki although you have no right to fish on it....do you
a) Steer clear
b) go for it and catch as much as you can or
c) go relatively close and have a go.
That is the ethical/moral dilemma; I leave it up to each person to try and decide how they would react. In my humble opinion we lay far to many cimi around Malta, the last time I looked at a map that showed the cimi lines I was shocked and couldn't believe how many there were. True it wasn't a recent map but there is also an ethical/moral question that fits in that context, when one asks is one over fishing by deploying so many Cimi all around the island. Do some searches on the net and you won't find many other regions in the world that put down the amount of artifical FADs like we do here.
I wouldn't be surprised if one day soon, commercial fishing for Lampuki doesn't end up being regulated by some recovery plan.
As I stated in my previous post in this topic the fads that I referred to are those laid legally by clubs. I believe this was made clear in my 1st post. As Mellieha said this is not the place where to talk about or encourage others to break the law.
proset mellieha. mela ahna immorru nonfqu il flus biex niitfaw ir rimja, nihdu hsieba u kollox imbad jigi xi cuc u joqod idur quddiemek.kemm aw min hu arroganti.
I agree ruman
I agree that it not right for sports fishermen fo and fish around the FAD of the professional fishermen. But I also disagree that professional fisherman fish with their net on FADs of the sports clubs. As you all know their are many clubs around Malta that they trow FADs "TA DELLETTANTI". I had a bad experience about 3 years ago where I was going out for Lampuki and met a professional fisherman trowing his net, at 4 in the morning around the fads of what is called ta delettanti.
As Skip said 2 wrong does not make one right
Ruman bl MFC mhux sippost iddawwara laqqas ta sihbi ;)
I can understand what you mean skip but please be aware that there are people like me that only fish from boats. This year I only a crew member on my cousins fishing boat but usually we lay fads together.
Skip, believe me or not In our area we are constantly shadowed. We are policed by other fisherman who simply decide to copy what we do instead of think a system for themselves. We have a recognisable boat and so breaking the law is out of option willingly or unwillingly.
Skip, you mentioned the issue of the interaction between recreational fisherman and commercial fisherman. I think that there are around 10% of posts on this forum that grumble about commercial fisherman techniques being used to overexploit the sea bed. Going on the fad of commercials is exploiting their 'assets' and commercials that break the law are bad as equal or more.
We maltese have the culture to grumble about other. 'You cannot find fish ashore because it is eaten (Mikul)'. the same people (rec or comm) usually exploit an area and then go to other areas. This is what we have to change.
I am not against clubs laying fads but does someone honestly think that 5 boats will remain on the same fad line? Will they not jump fads?? I leave to everybodys conscience to answer.
Thanks
Ad
Mellieha
mellieha you are right in saying that sport fisherman shouldnt go on comercial fisherman fad but you are wrong in saying that they should nt lay some fads themselves because they wont stay only on them. if you reason like this the only way to stop boats going on comercial fads is for the government to ban the use of boats during the lampuki season
I can't understand all the posts here .... it seems everyone agrees and states that no way will they approach FADs that belong to other boats (pls note that obviously ppl that lay Fads can also target other ppls Fads). Is it possible that all the boats I see on the Fads,,,, all the speedboats, cabin crusisers, open boats etc etc are not members of this forum!!! Then I am an exception!
As Skip said, I just wanted to possibly come up with some issues relating to this topic as we have to understand the effects of our actions. Mellieha... my mistake to generalizing that nets are used at night (you must really be the exception for netting during daytime as this is very ineffecient).
It is exactly for situations that Mellieha highlighted that I have opened this topic ..i.e. stupid ppl who approach your boat even knowing that you are trying to net the fish round your own FAD. Accordingly, some questions again:
1. Do you ever approach commercial FADs?
2. Do you limit yourself on the number of FADS you hit? What determines when you stop? Time! Fuel! Fishing! Being Prudent!
3. If you see a commercial boat on the lines, do you move away? Do you investigate? Do you run for your life?
4. If there is another boat on the FAD, do you go to the next one? Do you troll on the other side of the FAD?
5. Do you fish until you drop?
6. Do you think that amateur FADs are well positioned? Does anyone believe that on the East coast, amateur FADs are useful? (except for the first few weeks!)
7. Do commercial fisherman having a line of say 120 FADs believe that their first, say, 10 FADS will not be hit!
8. Do you troll from one FAD to another? or just speed up to hit a new FAD before the other boat!
etc etc
WITHOUT TRYING TO GIVE BIRTH TO A HURRICANE... CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT YOU SHOULD DO WHEN APPROACHING A LICENSED FAD? ARE YOU TO DRIVE A CERTAIN DISTANCE AWAY? WHAT DOES THE LAW SAY? DOES THE LAW GIVES A BLANKET CHEQUE ON THE OWNER OF THE FADS? I understand that there is a legal and morla obligation. Whatever the law says, I will not disrupt the livelihood of professional fisherman. However, it would be interesting to know what is legal and what is not. Maybe someone posting the claims can inform us.
Stevea,
Saying that netting during the day is inefficient is a gross irregularity. That is why my friend we are shadowed. It is an art to round fads and driver and layer have to be in perfect harmony. Netting at night has its advantages but also it minuses.
There are some times of the day that having a big boat creates a big shadow in the water and allows the fish to find additionally shad and swim freely of the the dawra. To the contrary small boats can still work.
The key word over here should be respecting each other.
re ethics of ONE commercial fisherman that i encountered. I used to lay my own fads (proffessional that is with the fisheries dept.) i was going to fish my fads when I found a Full time fisherman (MF) rounding my second fad with nets. I approached and radioed that those were my fads, the only answer i got was that out here its belongs to everybody, apart of course from swear words and Gun threathining.
Now u can say I should have reported him, right..........wrong he knew my boat I knew him by reputation so I just went on the next fad.......If i didnt all the fads would have been cut off , just like my friends, and i might not have my boat at the moment.
RESPECT...........yes i still respect other fisherman and I lay my own and go on the clubs fads.
Yes mulett they check all the fads on their way out if they find one with fish they net it. Even commercial fisherman fish on others fads they usually go out (knowing that the owner is anchored in harbour) on someones fads and return on thier own, this way they check two rimji not just theirs. These are known facts.
if you see the commercial fisherman while fishing on his fads, i can tell u one thing..... RUN
don't risk out there, its cowboy's land or no mans land. AND SOME OF THE COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN, LIKE OTHER AMATEUR FISHERMAN, ARE ONES NOT TO MESS WITH...
Respect and prudence are key.
Anyone from the Fishing authorities here? Maybe they can tell us what the law states! .. am really curious now,,,,,
Definitely taking the law into one's hands is illegal.
you are required to stay about 500mtrs away from the fad if its not your own........
Guys this is a matter of education and lack of greed! There aint any trolling speed (or racing speed) limit and will never be .. there aint any distance for shore fishermen to stay away from each other (and will never be) .. there aint any reserved places on the shore (and will never be) .. I honestly think that the commercial fishermen lay their FADs for their commercial activity but it has to be available to other sport fishermen as a consequence. The only way I see as fair is if time limits are imposed .. for example sports fishermen can only fish 6am - 6pm on the FADs. Guys lets face it .. if you do anything in a public place, it is not yours. So next time I fix the pavement do I expect commuters to pay for using it? If i fixed it, i fixed it for my own convenience! This is the way it works in life .. and we are no different. My 2 cents worth..
to stay 500 meters away from a every fad might not always be possible, since there are so many around....... plus the sea belongs to everyone.....and just cos the fads are there it does not mean that the sea around them belongs to who ever laid them....
apart from the fact that they are a threat to naviagtion......at least for people like me who travel at night. our biggest concern when making a crossing to sicily is looking out for these fads to make sure we do not run over one cos if one gets stuck in the prop in the middle of the night its big trouble....
on the other hand it must cost at least 5 euros per fad to lay down (and they might also have to pay a licence) so we cannot blame the commercial fishermen for trying to keep people away from their fads. this is after all their bread and butter and hey have spent lots of time and money to lay them out there...
bottom line......everyone needs to put up with everyone and be a little considerate and flexible....
ed
Shanook.... pls correct me... lets say you are trolling 10 kilometres away from shore and you encounter the first fads... ..... mela .. you make sure you are 500 metres from the Fad on the left...and 500 metres metre from the FAD on the right.... that leaves a corridor of what?
u bilhaqq.. Polidmar... make a sign.... for people to stay 2 metres away from your pavement,,,,and ED 2112... 5 euros for what??? for a FAD? u kidding? work, fuel, nylon, clths etc etc etc... its though for the fisherman
Polidmar et al,
N one said do not pass from the sea adjacent to a fad. What is being said is not to fist around the fad for surface fish. This is totally different.
Fisherman pay an annual license for laying fads and a refundable deposit of LM 500 for such use.
It is true they are in a public space but not for you or me to exploit them at the expense of others.
Your quote simply puts more weight to my argument that even if some will be part in a club they will simply use it as an excuse to go on other fads and say they taught it was the clubs.
so stevea, what are you saying? that they cost more or less than 5 euros each?
mine is a rough estimate, but surely it must be some where around that mark.
ed
I think a 'rimja' of say 100 fads would defintely cost much more then 500 euros! Just think of all the work that must be done... and calculate at ..say minimum wage!
ed it depens how much deep is the sea where they lay there fads. there are some places that they need 8 euros for the orange nylon only. than thereis the thicker nylon to tie the stone, thicker nylon for the float, the stone, maybe a swivel, fuel for the boat, fuel for the truck to get palm leaves and stones, a lot of work , maybe you get stung by a palm leave and you need medication make this multiply by 100 times or more and you can have an aproximite cost of a rimja plus the government license. and you have to take account that a lot of fads are cut by bad weather, those fishing for swordfish( if they really get stuck and cant do otherwise), by ships, by those that stop for fanfri and tie with the cima and can get cut if there is a lot of current. all these cut fads have to be replaced so its not a one time expence they have to replace the missing fads.
I am attaching the Fishery Regulations (very interesting reading). Articles 26 and 27 state that it is illegal to fish close to 180 metres from an authorized FAD (in Malta 130 rimji allocated - if these are not all taken up, foreingers can indeed make use of this resource). The act is punishable in the same way as a contravention (tahrika) plus confiscation of the fish.
So its 180mtrs oh well my mistake guys. So in the good old days when we measured by feet and inches it must have been 500 feet.
Re other comments I dont have to reply to.
do not give new ideas to authorities.
pls stop such hot arguments and everyone keep fishing the same way.
everyone know what is right and wrong. After all being a good fisherman is not asking FAD coordinations and stuff. Go search for the fish yourself and whenever you see other people fishing on an FAD never interrupt.
after all lampuki is not all about FADs. I did great catches near fishfarms, bouys and other floating material.
And under cliffs placebo, my friend makes great catches and even i catch under cliffs. it's a natural cima afterall
and palletts
well said placebo agree 100% with what you said even trawling around anchored ships can be productive.
mela ..... that's a good spot.
around ships on hurds bank and even the waiting area just outside freport terminal is great.
i remember the last couple of years we used to catch lampuki around the oil rig which was anchored in the filfla area.
Zubruni just outside the ports are also good spots.
then it's never a bad idea to have your own cimi. I give some money to a friend of mine and he throws some in our areas. Although this is a bit illegal but we never bother other people.
Not much to add. I still think that renting FADs is the way forward.
I agree with placebo and this year lampuki is everywhere and I don't know why but it is not biting so much on artificial lures!!! Last monday I saw a guy trolling near the ff with chunks of fish and he was catching lampuki everytime he turned!!!