Time has come to change my boat and motor.I need some help regarding the motor.E-tech or 4 stroke engine.Length of boat 17 feet.The engine will be used mainly for trolling from live bait to alungi.What's your opinion??Consumption,power etc!!
Although eTec seem to be fantastic motors, and are ideal for trolling, I personally would go for 4 stroke. Reasons being, i. no need for 2 stroke oils, ii. not too fond of the supplier in Malta (Parts rarely available from stock, not like other suppliers, and not the best technicians anymore from my experience in owning a johnson) iii. 4 stroke is the future, and 2 stroke motors might eventually be more expensive to licence.
suzuki 4 stroke bhal ta benri........ performance and consumption.... unbelievable.
For trolling at low speeds the 4 stroke will be happier than the E Tec 2 stroke ;)
I would also consider two items in general. engine weight and its components. Any four stroke engine has more parts to go wrong and more expensive to service. Regarding the future of these type of engines four strokes are not the only ones to stay.
I am currently doing a project on the advantages of these Direct Injection 2-strokes over 4-strokes. I ve based my study onto three main outboard brands: The E-tec from evinrude, the Optimax from Mercury and the TLDI from Tohatsu. As per quality all of them seem very common. In general from my research I discovered that 2-strokes offer better performance, better torque and consume less fuel. The only drawback these engines seem to have is that they are not as silent as the 4-strokes.
If you need further information just ask. Hope I ve been of any help
thank for the info mate. highly appreciated!
Go with the theory the Americans love to use........buy the dealer, not the brand or technology.
It's the dealer you're going to need if you have problems, not the manufacturer.
Amen, completly right search for the best after sales service
yamaha good saport from egent
kurtfalcon,
why were 4 stroke introduced to outboard motors? mainly because of the fuel consumption and pollution of water and air.
The pollution and consumption have been addressed by Etech so there is no advantage with a four stroke in that regards. The performance is better than a four stroke. and the noise is not that much difference it is still considered as silent (the suzuki is more silent).
So the question arises. Why buy a four stroke? and u end up with what we always say AFTER SALES SERVICE and help. Whichever u choose u are in a win win situation. e-tech or suzuki..................your choice
When emission standards began to phase in, 4 cycle technology was the easiest available and most manufacturers quickly opted for that choice. Boaters were comfortable purchasing four stroke outboards – they are quiet, fuel efficient, and easy to start.
Four stroke outboards are not the perfect match for every hull. Their heavier weight shifts the "point of balance" on many boats. Since they make power on every other revolution of the crankshaft, 4 strokes are slower to accelerate and the boat may work harder to come to plane. This is especially true of older hull designs with more deadrise and beams that narrow astern.
Direct injected engines use the proven internal components of a simple two stroke but improve the breed by injecting fuel and oil, only as needed, where needed, and when needed. This provides the best of both worlds, an engine with the acceleration and "fun factor" of a 2 stroke, and the economy and environmental responsibility of a 4 stroke.
Evinrude markets direct injected engines under the "E-Tec" banner. Mercury labels their DI two strokes "OptiMax". Two other brands also compete in this market Yamaha with their "HPDI" family of outboards, while Tohatsu offers "TLDI".
Direct injected 2 strokes are light and they have fewer moving parts than 4 strokes. Two stroke engines love to rev! Sustained high speed running won't lead to premature wear or component failure, as it can with the more complex 4 stroke design. Only one outboard motor has ever won the prestigious Clean Air Excellence Award from the U.S. EPA. It was a Direct Injected Two Stroke.
And ciappinu why do you think that 2-stroke motors might eventually be more expensive to licence? When it comes to emissions the E-tec models ( except the 300, but they are working on it) have the 3 Star Ultra Low CARB rating while many 4-strokes still only have the 2-star thus many 4-strokes might eventually be more expensive to licence ;)
What about consumption at slow trolling speeds? Also, I beleive a 4 stroke can maintain a lower minimum speed than an equivalent 2 stoke making it better for live bait trolling.
Rob
The Tohatsu's idle RPM is 700 while the minimum for the Evinrude E-Tec is 500. When it comes to the OptiMax I sincerely do not know but should be similar. Fuel consumption is the same as 4-strokers if not better.
kev u wereon a boat with an evenrude.So u can makes ome type of comparison.
What type of boat was that u were on when u caught the pastardella? did it go as fast as u expected?
kurtfalcon the 40 e tech is as heavy as the mariner 4-stroke 110 kg so it is not lighter
Busumark you are right. The Evinrude E-tec 40hp weighs 109 kgs since it has the same block as the 50 and 60. The mariner 40hp 4 stroke is 9kg lighter. But then compare the 225 E-tec or the 225 OptiMax with the 225 Verado. 235kg and 231kg vs the 288kg of the Verado. The 225 E-tec and optimax weigh as much as the Verado 150 does.
So guys, 99% of the Direct injection 2-strokes are lighter than their 4-stroke counterparts.
;)
The weight distribution issue is certainly very interesting. personally i don't think four strokes are much good on smaller lighter boats, but once you go past the 100hp range I think its a very different story. On many 4 strokes, you'll see that sometimes a 40/50/60 all use the same block so have very similar weights.....meaning the 40hp is just too heavy for most boats.
Looking forward to going out and trying some of the Etec models.
I think i will go for an e-tech,after being on fortuna'a boat which is equipped with a 75 e-tech engine...economy was great and perfomance as well and when you accelarate that noise gives me .................in the next weeks i will go and have a look at some boats aprox 17 or 18 foot maximum and check some prices to compare between e-tech and 4 stroke!!
Skip, what do you mean by " once you go past the 100hp range I think its a very different story"? I am also really interested in buying an etec but wish there was more than one etec owner here on the forum. I just need to ask more questions of reliability and dealer questions.
shaftbomba regarding the motor u can go to other forum (USA ones) and u can read about the E-tech. Here in Malta they have not been used for a long time so not a very good comparison. What you can get from Local etech users is the after sales service that has been offered.
I dont understand either what skip had in mind, as over the 100hp the Etech is even better in performance than the smaller outboards when compared with 4 stroke.
There are several e-tec owners on the forum shaftbomb. They should reply on this topic before long. As for the " over 100hp" thing i have to agree with shanook. In smaller outboards there isn't much difference. Direct Injection 2-strokes provide better torque than 4-strokes which is what is needed the larger the boat gets.
shaftbomba kellem li camkev ghax hu beda it topic forsi jekk dak li titghalmu taqsmuh u taghmlu ghazla ahjar. Forsi jekk tmorru it tnejn fdaqqa jaf jerhilkom xi haga............tipprova trid?
What I meant was that I think I would be more inclined towards a good 4 stroke when over 100hp rather than a DI engine. The larger DI engines require more oil I guess and I already use a fair bit in mine which needs to be factored in when considering the running costs. And the weight comparisons seem to be very similar between the larger DI engines and the 4's......I admit I haven't been out on a boat with a big DI engine but from what I've seen of the modern 4's I seem to prefer them.
The big optimax's are a hit with those looking for speed and seem to be favoured by the racing guys......I guess so far I've been so impressed by Benri's Suzuki 140 that it has me feeling very biased. But until i get to go out on a similar sized DI engine it will be hard to compare.
@ shaftbomb..for me it's not a problem if you want to go together..i will be seing some boats as well..tks shanook ;)
For me it's not a problem Camkev...however im currently abroad...so that's a problem. Was just at a boatshow here in the states....inboard engines were inexistent - all boats powered by outboards. The majority of boats were powered by yamaha, suzuki and mercury verados. The best bet I think is to have a trial run and compare like with like. However still confused about suzuki agents in Malta - on this website there are ads saying suzuki imported by Mecca Marine and other websites and tv ads saying suzuki agents are Zarb Stores. Not that it matters to me who is the agent but it's more a question of aftersales, spare parts, guarantee, etc, etc.....
I know a guy down at B bugia running a 225 etec on a 23ft boat if not mistaken.. pls confirm kurt.. he is happy with it as far as i know. If you require any other info regading the etec sales etc please let me know. I will try to help as much as possible. Kev regarding the noise you stated.... ie. it hums as goes!!! ;)
Zarb Stores are the only Distributor authorized by Suzuki.
Mecca import Suzuki through their own channel from a distributor in Europe.
The term agent is an old fashioned one with the advent of free trading across Europe.
So I am assuming that Suzuki supply Zarb stores as an Authorized distributor and Mecca import from Italy or somewhere in Europe since we have free trading.
Kev there are a lot of boats to look at. there are some nice ones or good ones that we dont see advertised here like quicksilver and olympus, edgewater which can be bought from Uk. first check the prices here and then do a search on internet. What size were u thinking of and is it with cabin or centre console. PM if u like i give u phone number and have a chat or we have a beer someplace.
I might go to the London boat show as i missed the Genoa one.
Shaftbomba did u see any boats that caught ur eye.......there are boats that have a good hull that planes quickly so saving on gas as well as being sea worthy.
As you may know in international boatshow the range is vast.....but this year I like most the hydra Boats - i started to like centre console boats. This was my third time visiting this Boatshow and I stated to see the decline of inboard engines year after year - and this yr I was shocked not to see even one! -Not taking into consideration the big superyacths.
I have to admit that I am biased to maltese built boats - to me they are more sea worthy and more durable.....at least that's my opinion. However the finishing of foreign built boats is more state of the art.
Destination Sea - I heared about that boat you mentioned powered by etec. I think it is a Petecraft 22 actually. Wish its owner is a forum member - so that he can tell us his comments first hand.
Its a Gaia boat impoted by rlr. I will try to contact jonathan and get his opinion
Tks shannok,will send you a pm and meet over a couple of beers!! I found this site of the edgwter boats...what a finish!!...http://www.ewboats.com/188_center_console_gallery_14.html
And what a price usually.....the American centre console boats are lovely but very expensive.
yep probably it willbe nick...but u cant say its not a beauty..........although one can find things that dont attract like that pedestal on which the centre seat is mounted on?
I contacted jonathan and heres the info . The boat is a gaia 24.5ft 2.9 ton stepped hull with etec 225. He had the outboard for 3 years with no problems whatsoever. Its performance is 40 knots and planning goes with half throttle.The motor has good hole shot.his remark "Nibza ntih gas down f daqqa majmurx jaqlali ic cappa"-I am afraid to give it full throttle cause i am afraid that damage to the transom will happen. Oil usage appx 10l per season used frequent and from B Bugia to kemmuna and back about 50l, Both oil and fuel usage are very rough estimates.No record taken just for guidnance purposes. With regards to ripard he found their service quite good. Trolling wise he prefers to give it a shot every now and then to clear the engine. Hope this helps.
I found this on an int. forum.........Quote:
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What is all this 4 stroke maintance about? I have a 90 honda now for 3 years and just doing the basics before putting it away and pulling it out are all I have done and I have never had a problem. Is there something else that I am missing?
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Everytime I see that E-tec commerical I just laugh. False advertising about 4 strokes at its finest.
I switched to a four stroke last year and will never own another 2 stroke again. I have switched back to back trolling again and I run a 60 Yamaha EFI. The new tiller handle has the RPM button which I can get down to under 1.5 mph. I love the gas usage and smoothness. Starts right up in temps down to 5 above. Watch for the 3/3 warranty specials again this spring.
Without providing any facts I guess your only non-helpful comment was you don't like there promo.
It would help if you would provide a few specifics on why you don't like the E-Tec.
The E-Tec in 2006 offered a 7 year non-depreciating warranty. No other outboard even comes close.
The E-Tec is faster out of the hole and faster on top end.
The hole shots are not even close when compared to the four strokes, nor is top end.
The E-Tec has few moving parts, perhaps a dozen or so, the four strokes about 200. Apparently, you prefer the latter.
The E-Tec causes less pollution, that simple, and certified by US and Foreign governments.
The E-Tec requires little maintenance, albeit the four strokes are not that bad.
There are only a few independent tests, but you should read them. In all cases the E-Tec places number 1 0r 2. The closest competitors are Suziki and Yamaha; Merc almost always finishes last.
On the less positive note the E-Tec is simply not as quite as a Suziki or Yamaha. Idling speed is about the same.
Finally, the E-Tec is manufactured in Sturdivant, WI. Unlike Merc, the plant provides jobs for Americans.
Now, what is your problem with E-Tec.
Sorry people for not replying but I was absent from the forum due to problems with my pc. As Destination Sea stated the b'bugia 225 E-tec boat is a Gaia 24.
As for the maintenance issue its true that 4 strokes needs to be serviced every 100 hours while the E-tec only every 300.
Guys if you want to see the fastest fishing boat on the planet, its a Fountain 38 Centre Console mounted with quad (peress li ma jarawx kbir l amerikani ;) ) Mercury Racing 300 XS ( OptiMax Direct Injection) outboards. It clocked 87.6 MPH !!!
http://www.fountainpowerboats.com/fish/multimedia/profish_vids.html (http://www.fountainpowerboats.com/fish/multimedia/profish_vids.html)
Choose the video called : 38 TE World Kilo record 87.6 mph ( 9th from list)
In my opinion DI 2 strokes outperform 4-strokes in any aspect.
my new boat will be a kaptan 15ft powered by an inboard ford 18 turbo
should be ready by end of january.still undecided on the name.
Congratulations chris and enjoy your new boat :D
thx kurt
I am also going to have a look at the northstar 190 with V4 115 e-tech!!Called RLR for an appointment.
u making a test drive kev, if yes let us know the outcome. it is good to test a boat as the sea is not that calm and better to test in a swell
I am going for a sea trial on petercraft 17 next sat in force 5 winds...then will be going to try the northstar as well and the coming weeks will try differnet boats like ranieri,poseidon and etc!!
take down notes kev and dont look at the boat (that can be done outside the water) concentrate on how it handles, how quick it is to plane, when stationery (like when u are bringing in a fish) does it feel safe, does it get u wet when on a head wind or cross wind. U know things that u usually do when fishing.
Good luck mate
Still undecided about the motor,will go and have a look at suzuki and e-tech next week!!
Just came back from hi-tec marine,had a look at the ranieri voyager 17,marinello fisherman 16 and 17 which i was impressed by the finish and storage in the boat...this boat is 2.3 mtrs wide,for a 16 and a half feet boat its very wide.One problem that i found is that daniel told me that it will be very difficult to go for a sea trial cause most of his customers already put there boat up!!Regarding the prices there is only a difference of about 1000 euros from the 3 of them.Regarding the difference in price to the petercraft 17 open its stil 1000 euro difference here and there,but the thing is that the petercraft is priced with a suzuki motor and these other 3 with a selva motor.So all 4 boats are in the same price region of 16330 euro and 17350 euro,for the boat,motor and trailor!!!Still not decided,and for sure i will not rush even if i buy it in a years time ;)
Kevin, if you're not that in a hurry, I would still insist on a sea trial. How can you buy a boat without giving it a sea trial. Ranieri are very reliable boats, great finish, and Hi-Tec are also pitching in a road trailer. Selva outboards are really Yamaha on the inside.
You still have to look at the Northstar boats as well, equipped with an E-Tec outboard. Definitely worth a sea trial too. Demand a sea trial....Hadd ma jixtri l-hut fl-ilma!!! (maltese saying "nobody buys fish while the fish are still in the sea")
Will never do that,that's what i told daniel.Regarding northstar i still have to go cause they were very busy with the middle sea race.I called them last week and that what they told me.Will have a look on the net as well maybe i find a bargain!!No hurry!!!Filkas nigi mijak al alungi!!
Kev there is also Quicksilver boats they are made by Brunswick (USA). Same manufacturers of Mercury outboards. The agent is in Ta Bulebel industrial estate. I dont know if he has boats available for a demonstation and sea trial but asking never hurt anyone. I already contacted him before the boat show and had to go over to have a look. A quick search on internet and u have an idea of the boat. I know Marinello by hitech is a good boat, ask Benri he has a 19' one, but his is in the garage for the winter (hibernating). He can tell u speed he got out of it as well as fuel consumption. He has a 140 susuki
go for the one you try i thing is the best in all as they tolyou""""Hadd ma jixtri l-hut fl-ilma'''''' from axpiriance be cerfull dont be sorry after is to late
sorry for spelling
I went to see the selva 4 stroke,the name doesn't sound that much but when they opened the cover it's all yamaha.The price between a suzuki and selva is aprrox 1600 euro with same hp.Now i have to go and try one on a trial and willl have a look at the consumption,weight and torque!!What do you think guys?Anyone knows someone with a selva motor maybe i can have some feedback??? TKS :)
Camkev..I recently bought a Ranieri shark 17 with a 60 HP SELVA from hi-tech marine. I am still waiting documets to use the boats..(MFC registration). I have only had a 15min trial after purchasing.
I found the engine very smooth and powerful. About consumption I cannot comment. I cannot promise you anything for the moment but if you are still interested later on, I can tell you to have a watch. I am very busy...no one can imagine how many preparations needed after buying a new boat so that it is ready for use!
Thank you snapper,i sent you a pm.If anyone wants to join we are going to hitech and rlr tomorrow morning!!
Take your time so that you purchase the right boat for your needs. At first you will be confused but with time you will have no more doubts about the choice.
Tks Snapper,i received you pm.I went to hitech this morning and had a look at the selva motor,it's all yamaha but much cheaper then yamaha.I like the ranieri boat,but i still like the petercraft most....sometimes when you see a boat and you like it you will know thats your boat and no use seing other boats.Regarding the motor i think i will go for the etec 90,but still didn't decide yet.Does anyone know what the cost of the yearly service for a four stroke engine??the etec comes with a 3 year maintanance free agreement and after the 3rd year you only have to change the gear oil and impeller.
@snapper..i still think you made the right choice cause yor boat is very nice and the motor looks good...It's also my second choice after the petercraft!!!
biex jkollok x taghmel kev reviews fuq mutur biss ;D
http://www.boatsales.com.au/boat-reviews/results.aspx?N=600+602+4294905808+1060
ghazel il mutur li trid mill gemb (left screen) biex issibhom aktar mghalajr
Running cost comparision dawn in AUD w scroll down etec w yamaha 4 stroke
appx div by 2 ghal euros 4 ghal maltin
http://www.oceanskiffjournal.com/index.php/osj/1E1PS/634
f din is site hemm ukoll info dwar etec . running cost part minnha. ;)
Petercraft daghajes sbieh hafna wkoll...baqghu jimxu l- quddiem u jhabbtuwha ma produtturi barranin fil- kwalita.
@ Destination Sea thanks for the information,very useful.
@Snapper tks anke ir ranieri ver sbieh u jifilhu al bahar...proset tal boat!!
Does anyone in the forum own a Bucaneer boat?Any information about the searover please?Thanks
Camkev,
I have a Buccaneer Sea rover (14ft) with a 40 yamaha (2 stroke). For my purposes, I find it very convenient and can manage it single handedly. I am very happy with it (use it for apnea trainig and sometimes spearfishing). It is a bit crowded when there are 3+ people. My model is 4 years old. One thing to pay attention for is the storage found at the back of the boat (fuel tanks etc.) The opening below the bench is quite low and although the space inside is ample, I cannot manage to fit in fuel tanks through the opening apart from the yamaha one.
On the whole I am very satisfied.
i think mine is like yours cgp71 the 147 model.it is 14ft 7 inches.mine has a 50 2 stroke mariner.but i think camkev is lokking for a bigger boat.regarding storage at the back i fit 2, 25 litre tanks easily.quicksilver brand.i found it good but i only give full trottle when the sea is very calm and if i am alone in the boat it is very difficult as the weight of the motor and petrol ara at the back.when the sea is choppy and with some swell i never go more that 18 knots on gps.maybe it is overpowered?could be...and with 5 adults it plains very quickly,but as i said the boat needs weight in the front to be comfortable
Hi Camkev,
i have the new Kaptan Twin with a 30hp Mercury, bought this summer .It is 14 ft and i use it for diving and rod fishing too.The good thing is that the fuel tank 25litre is fitted underneath the steering console,thus weight is well balanced. Besides being a sea worthy boat ; it is easily managible to handle all by yourself in and out of the water.
The Kaptan guys are very helpful.
you must have heard the good news for your new boat I think camkev! Registration fee whatever the size of the engine is now only €50 compared to the €757 I had paid!!! Bloody hell - Introduced a year too late!
Am about to switch registration :)
I wonder whether this reduction applies to the first registration fee on MFC as well?
Is the registration for the motor or for the boat only?
Both. Well, it's actually for the boat but you pay according to the size (hp) of the engine.
But it is only for S registered Boats?
@ spiru
May I ask from where you got the "quicksilver brand" 25ltr fuel tanks?
MM2 Ltd
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