my friend has a 4-stroke 6 hp motor that he uses as an auxiliary and for trolling. he bought it new about one and half years ago. he made the first service oil and oil filter change done by the dealer. after about using it 5 times he noticed that the engine oil (beda jonqos. translate) and he had to top it up before using it and it smokes a bit when he starts it. he went to dealer with the motor and he said to him that there is nothing wrong because they left it working in a tank for an hour and the oil remained the same. after that he used it once and in 5 hrs the oil went from the top mark on the dip stick to the bottom mark. is it normal for this type of motor that the enigine oil ( jonqos translate ) at this rate. Does anyone has a 4-stroke 6 hp and can tell me what their motor does? so that he will know what to tell the dealer so that he wont take him for a ride for the third time in one and a half years
Doesn't sound right at all, and beda jonqos can best be described at least how I read it as: 'The engine oil was reducing' or perhaps to be more clear burning off.
Is the oil clean? In other words during this problem if he pull the dipstick does the oil still look clean? to eliminate the head gasket.
Are there any noticeable oil leaks in the engine cowling to see if oil is dripping from a bad o-ring or other seal?
If we focus on the smoking/burning of the oil, is this white smoke? Could be that oil is getting into the combustion chamber and being burnt whilst under compression. I would do a compression check as it should show up if there is a leak with reduced compression. For oil to be getting in to the combustion chamber, maybe then have a look at the rings/sleeves.
The only way I know of this happening ruling out a component failure is having run the engine with no water (eg. having caused it to overheat), which may then have caused these problems. Warped rings/sleeves etc perhaps?
But bottom line, no this is not normal and yes there is a problem. If you don't have any luck with the dealer you can always get another mechanic to perform an evaluation and provide a report, but he cannot make any repairs if you want to claim under warranty.
ok thanks i checked with two persons who have a small 4-stroke outboard and they said that the oil doesn t change. he will try again with the dealer.
The whole concept of 4 stroke means that your engine oil should not get lost but rather be re circulated within the engine. So no the oil level should stay the same. The oil gets burnt away in an old engine but the rate you are implying makes me think of something serious like a blown gasket .If the engine is blowing smoke it's probably being burnt with the fuel mix in the combustion chamber. Did the engine loose strength ? it is probably the rings in that case so long as the spark plugs are not gummed up.
In the older days during the running in period there used to be a slight consumption of oil until the engine beeds in. However today due to more precise tech specification oil consuption is neglegable.
Oil can be consumed in four different ways
leakage to combustion chambers broken rings/oil control wear on cylinders / head gasket
external leakage
choked up crankcase breather (will cause exsessive buildon presuure)
defective fuel pump if mechanically driven
since most engines have a through prop exhaust smoke colour is not that clearly seen.
However if motor is run on headphones it should bee seen. Blue smoke shows that oil is being burnt with the fuel.
one can also check oil deposits on the spark plugs.
Another point i will mention. You stated that after the service he noticed this happening. Could it be that the engine was overfilled with oil during service? and it is being topped up under the wrong impresion of the max mark. Smoke on start up could also be that a valve stem oil seal is damaged.
Hope this helps.
went to dealer to tell him when to take motor and i told him about the problem again. at first he was trying to tell me a lot of b****t as always but when i told him that i spoke with 5 persons that have a small 4-stroke and a meccanic he didnt say anything more and told me to take it to-morrow. when i told him about the oil the first thing he told me was but for how many hours the the motor was running 5 hrs ? he was trying to tell me that the oil level went down because it worked for 5 hours because when they checked it ( running in a tank for 30 minutes ) the oil level remained the same. they really have modern equipment to check an oil leak leaving a motor running in a tank for 30 minutes. than he told me for 5 hrs is not normal for oil level to go down but after 10 hours it can get down. when i told him that even in a year those who i spoke to never added oil he told me ok bring the motor and we leave it running in a tank for 5 hours ( again their modern way of checking oil leaks ) i told him no we want a pressure test and compression test. finaly he said ok i will tell the mechanic what to do but i have my doubts because he didnt know what we were talking about. i will let you how this finished
Well the dealer has accepted the engine to check it and that's something. Is the engine still under warranty? remember that a customer has to be satisfied with the actions taken by the dealer before taking the engine away. So if you're not satisfied, the engine stays there and they have to continue investigating. Discuss with the dealer the possibility of getting a 2nd opinion, perhaps anoher mechanic can come down and they can discuss together. Failing that, then it's time for the manufacturer to step in and help diagnose.
First thing I would go for is a compression test. Most Mechanics can do a compresison test for you. What you are describing should definitely show up clearly in a compression test.
took motor to-day to dealer and he said again that he was going to try it by letting it idling in a tank for 5 hours. when i told him to make a compression test or pressure test to make sure what the problem was as this was the right mechanical way to check and not by starting the engine in a tank he told us that to make a pressure test you have to open the engine and he doesnt like to open a new engine. (maybe another excuse). even when my friend told him that the tensioner that he said that he fixed was not working good he tried to blame my friend because he told him the part he changed was original and he wasnt with him when he used the motor and that only my friend's motor from all that he sold had this problem so it must be that you are doing something wrong with the motor. when he saw it than he told us ok maybe the tensioner is not good. yes the motor is still under warranty
Busumark tell him to stop pissing around. There is a test instrument called engine cylinder leakage tester (costs about GBP 60) Basically it has a gauge and a pipe which fits into the sparking plug and can measure the % of the leak if any. No need to strip the engine. A compression test does basically the same. Is the motor 2 cylinder?Cylinder pressure should be nearly the same on bothe cyl.. if lower (than manufaturer specf.)and similar readings are obtained it should indicate a faulty head gasket.
i dont think that he ever heard about that instrument
busumark can you share the brand of the outboard?
i will not name the brand or dealer now i will wait and see what are the results. its not the first time that when someone wrote on this forum about a bad experience with a dealer that dealer writes in the forum or joins as a member just to answer that thread and comes up with a lot of nice words and excuses and tries to make beleive that the customer was at fault not him. so till now i will only tell how the things are going between my friend and the dealer. if the dealer is reading this thread i hope that he doesnt fix my friends problem just because it is being followed in the forum but threats everyone the same and give them a good service
Leaving an engine idling for 5 hrs will definitely damage the engine. The water in the tank will get hot and will cause the engine to over heat unless he has a circulating pump that continuously change water. and still 5hrs at idling speed is not good for an engine.
Strip the engine for a compression test?? I'm not an expert, but I suggest you try and get some expert advice as I think this guy is making a feast out of you.
my friend phoned to-day to the dealer and he told him that to-morrow the mechanic is going to see the motor. a very good service a week after he took the motor just the mechanic is going to the the motor. and he told him also that he has to phone the mother company and tell them about the problem and tell them what it might be wrong
the mechanic phoned my friend and he told him there is a bit of smoke when you start it. he told him the first time he takes down the boat he tells the mechanic so that he goes with him and do some tests ( i dont know what they are ) in the sea so that the motor is working with a load. i think that he can do some tests to see what is wrong even on land like some people said before if he has the appropriate tools. like this with this weather and the hassle that you have to launch the boat just for the mechanic to see whats wrong when if he knows how he can check on land is very poor after sales service. VIVA L JOKE OF THE YEAR
Now we know what the engine is ;)
with this weather we arre having the gtee will expire.
@ camkev i think that others already guessed what the model was. there are no dealers worst than this one for customer service and after sales.
What a pity... it would have been so nice today for a sea trial.. I pity myself at work today with such lovely weather, sunshine and a good day out at sea! If only we know who the friend is, we are ready to give him a helping hand too even though the engine might not be our brand...:)
like you my friend works also so that is another problem added by the dealer because he cant launch the boat the first day that the weather is good. What my friend really needs is that the dealer has a really good mechanic who is qualified and certified from the company abroad to work on their motors. that would be really excellent after sales service
A doctor is called to see a student playing truent. He examins the child, tests all the possible problems and finds no problem at all. X rays have been made and than an MRI was carried out - luckily the child is fine and after the tests he is sent back home... same as before. What would you do?
I am glad to inform all that all mechanics working at MECCA MARINE are fully qualified & certified:
a) by factories in question and
b) by hands on experience.
We are proud to confirm that they are the only mechanics qualified by TOHATSU which no other importer can offer this.
NB: To be appointed as an official importer for the said products, training is obligatory and not an option!
Mecca Marine - committed to deliver.
Tel: 21 573278 / 79732783
mecca@mecca.com.mt
if the doctor is not qualified and is using the wrong methods to examine the boy he wont get the right results. even if he has the right instruments but doesn t know how to use them he wont get the right results either.
if we come at your showroom can we see the certificates please just to be sure before buying a motor. the most important thing before buying something is that they have the knowledge how to fix it. it depends from where you import the motors. if you import them from another dealer of another country you dont need training if you import directly from the mother company yes you have to take training
Imm very true busumark, i fully agree to this.
This is why we invest heavily on training and trips abroad. 2 of our mechanics are currently in Sweden to finish off training. Such investment is important to support our clients. I hope that most companies will offer same.
can we see the certificates?
The new Web site that MECCA MARINE is working on will in fact include all certifications. Our clients themselves can testify themselves now with over 3200 Outboards sold and serviced by Mecca Marine. I can show and offer any client to view any certifications.
Also will take this up to provide the Copy of the Certificates to be available at the Mecca Marine Showroom on display. Thanks for the suggestion.
Quality is our guarantee and we will continue to show this now that the new premises are available. The work shop is currently being re organised, enlarged and full operational shortly and permanent.
Busu why are you wasting time???????
HOPE is the last to die kaptan
meccaninc with ur atitude you are putting off many potential clients. so you spend thousands of euros in marketing, advertisement and "to train your mechanics" and then you simply can't fix a 6hp outboard?? thats a pitty my friend since negative things always have a larger impact than positive ones and this forum is monitored daily by 100s of people
Busumark I think Jonathan is write. When there is a bad aftersales service one should notify others. If you are a person like me who do not understand a thing about motors should be made aware of certain agents. After reading the end posts, I came to the conclusion that it is a motor from Mecca. The way Mecchanic jumped into the forum indicates that, as they say, they hit him where it hurts. I have heared many people complain about Mecca boats and motors, especially aftersales. New buyers like me should be made awair of certain agents. No disrespect Mecchanic - but it's plain truth.
With all respect to everyone ma nafx kif tixxu minghadu dal bniedem eee. When kevin, mundinu and myself went to see the boats gie bxeba paroli cos he did not want to show u the boats on display !!!
Vera jgib hafna dajjes irhas imma finish 0, hfief hafna allura fic caqliq mandek xej, u aftersales brodu
you see meccanic what other people think about you!! all are of the same opinion
maybe if you could repair this 6hp outboard people could change their perspective about you, but its up to you if you don't want to continue damaging your reputation.
to put things in perspective............there are times when an engine is not working right and when u take it to the mechanic it seems to work fine or the problem seems to disappear.........I am talking out of experience not just talk. this must have happened to a lot of us. I am not excusing meccanic for anything but these things happen. As a business man u cannot just take anybody,s word but one has to be certain that the item has been used properly and not tempered with. I worked part time as technician and the things i saw one wouldnt believe. Example A lady nicely dressed came with a toaster under quarantee that it is not working....Opened it and found a toasted mouse inside which caused the elements to short.......now how can u explain that mice trouble is not under guarantee????????
So please do not jump to conclusions, things should be taken in their stride and fair chance should be given to anybody.
Busu has been to see the dealer this morning and I am sure that he will let us know what is happening.
At least the Forum is being used to help both the retailer as well as the client.
The retailer to take care of customer care, and aftersales service.
the client to know his rights and to claim his rights in a proper manner.
yes shanook you're right but certain dealers try to take the mickey out of people who don't understand.
An example of a certfied, qualified mechanic....
Customer: why didn't my engine alarm as supposed to after 20 hours for the first service?
Qualified, certified Mechanic: Cause the oil was still in good condition
...lol
Things you laugh about instead of cry when they happen to you! I just thank God it was not my engine and it didn't happen to me!
Well said Tony, we are all demanding customers nowadays, perhaps we always were but with the advent of the Internet it's much easier to get information, advice and conduct research. Retailers still have to transistion to this level of customer care which perhaps was normal in the larger markets like the USA but wasn't the case in Europe and especially Malta.
Mecca certainly make boating more affordable and offer a wide range of boats to suit all budget levels. They have invested in their premises and I know they are now wanting to invest in their people to address after sales and this is something that we will judge in time. There are lessons to be learnt all round and as Tony said the forum can be used for both the client and the retailer to better understand each other.
true Benri and that answer can never be excused but certain people dont know that to say 'I dont know and will ask my mechanic' does not constitute a weak reply but a very sensible one.
About a year ago I was asking all the info about the outboiards cause I was going to change mine and buy 2 brand new engines. I went to all agents and tried a lot of boats with different engines but the Tohatsu TLDI engines in my opinion where the most reliable and consumed less fuel than other engines.
I bought 2 Tohatsu engines and after one year I can say that are really good engines and perform well. Low fuel consumption and stay long hours with low revs and the most important thing these outboards are not expensive as other brands.
I do not regret that I bought these engines and also the agent was very helpful at first with me and my brother. But as trouble occured in one of our engines which we had hardly used the agent was blaming us of the fault!!!!
I am not saying that the product is not good I think that the agent needs to change his attitude and treat his clients much better after all the money they spend!!!!!!
yes the motor is a tohatsu and the dealer is mecca. to day went to speak with nikol and after a lively 30 min conversation he seemed to begin to reason like a dealer with excellent after sales service. we agreed for a trial run of one hour with the boat with the mechanic. he still insisted that the pressure and compression tests were good. i told him ok but maybe something else is wrong. i told him what will happen if after that hour the mechanic still tells you that the engine is good and when my friend uses the motor for a period of time the oil level goes down again. he told me in that case he will give my friend another motor and send the motor back to the factory. i told him that is excellent customer service and that he should have done it before not after a lot of hassle and after being followed up on the forum although the make of the engine and the dealer were never mentioned and no nikol i didnt tell anyone in private what the make of the motor was everyone made their own conclusion.
when i was there i asked for the mechanic certificates he told me i dont have them here because i didnt know that you were coming. he promised that they will be on-line in the web site. people need to see with their eyes to beleive. he also said that he has 3 mechanics training abroad and when they come he will have qualified mechanics that can give good service to the clients. i hope that all you said is true nikol because if it happens and only time will tell you will be a very valid dealer that can match or even beat other dealers in customer service. in the end it will be a good thing for us also because we will have another guaranteed good dealer in malta from where to buy
My Grandmother always used to say 'If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys!'....sorry guys, |I justcouldn't resit that jibe.
Back to Reality. The problem with a lot of family run businesses in Malta, and overseas, is Marketing...advertising, as someone mentioned in another post on this thread, is not, I repeat not marketing. It is part of the marketing mix, but certainly not a marketing startegy, its operational, something to be done in conjuction with a PLAN....thoroughly worked out plan which targets the demands of the market, tickles your interest, and makes you want to own the item being marketed. I know, I work for one of the best Global players in the tobacco business, where marketing to us is the bible. The advent of the 4Ps and 4S's (Philip Kotler et al) is long gone now. Big businesses today rely on the old ado of 'word of mouth'. Allow me to give you guys an example; Busumark had some trouble with an outboard,he goes to the dealer, the dealer pulls his leg, Busumark in a huff (and quite understandably) comes onto the forum and vents his anger here....in less then 24hrs, a potential niche market of over a 1,000 people have read the post. Big Damage. Busu's post invokes a reply from the supposed dealer (since until now no one knew who it was) and the dealer splashes post after post of praise on the after sales service, including maintenance. What happens, more people vent their anger against the dealer....I'm sorry guys, very poor marketing, but even less very poor damage control!!!!
Same scenario, different dealer: Busu complains about a fault in the outboard, The dealer, asks for the outboard to be brought in...I'm acting here. but this is the way I would have handled it...."Aw Busu, that outboard has some malfunction, we're not sure what the fault is, but hey, what the heck, here's a spare one until we figure out what the problem is". Busu comes on the forum,. heaps priase on the dealer...people see this, and relate to it..."i wanna be in that customer service situation. People who read the post here will relate this to their friends, who intern relate to other friends...and before you know it...with a few 100 Euros and with the help of the Forum, people, people's friends, and their friends...we now have a situation where a mass of people know that when buying a particular brand or model from the dealers outlet, they can be assured excellent customer service. Guys, I tried to put it in very simple terms here so that everybody understands me...but really, its not that difficult to provide a service..as long as you invest in the future!!!!!.....Showrooms and brands don't sell, Customer service does!!
Gaffer you're a philosopher. I agree 100% with what you said. It's customer care that matters most and not advertising. I bought my first computer from a particular big agent. Within the first 3 weeks I had a fault with my 19" monitor. Took it there. Tested in front of me. No questions asked. They gave me another brand new one sealed in a box. Whenever I had problems, even software ones, they were at hand to help. From that day onwards, I bought 4 computers from them, 2 cameras, 2 dvd players besides recommending and taking hosts of friends to buy from them. This is a NO NONSENSE CUSTOMER CARE. As Gaffer said, nobody implied Mecca, not even Busumark who started the post. All of a sudden Mecchanic jumped in to heap praise on his company and mechanics. That's not the way man. You just burried yourself in your own grave. Sorry. Tohatsu may be the best salt water motors in the world, but if I have to do anything with mediocre aftersales, especially one like me who doesn't understand a thing about motors, I would never buy them. Punto e basta.
And what about the mechanics??Are they training abroad now in these festive days ??? ???...hard to beleive!!!
LOL !!!!!!!
Reference to all the above, many things are being said. We are here to work and to offer a reliable good aftersales service. From the number of outboards we are delivering annually, i am sure that there is always a % of customers that may need more attention than others. Very often they are new to boating and sometimes require a mere clarification. Whenever a new Outboard is installed by our installers, we always do a FREE sea trial to ensure safe and proper performance: Also all the delivery procedures are inspected. In such instances, any adjustments or settings are addressed and rectified by the mechanic/installer during this normal practise.
As some of you know, in November I got married. As soon as i returned to work, i immediately went online. As you all know, i have always contributed and submitted all the boats, ribs, outboard reports and promotions especially now after International Boats Shows where all the new 2010 models have been launched. I have always supported my clients' requests directly and also offer full supports online - through emails, this forum and others.
If i had a I Don't Care attitude, i would not have intervened to what is being said. Also i ensure that the best customer service is being offered by MECCA MARINE. While i study all what is said, i tend to learn and where positive, i like to address the problems. We are doing our utmost to support the Marine Industry in MALTA with the largest Quality Boats, Ribs, and Outboards under 1 roof.
Re Kaptan Junior - i thank him for the good reference as well as his comments re the TOHATSU MD50Hp TLDI. Yet he failed to mention that his brother had filled the fuel tank with 2 stroke fuel/oil mixture - Sample of which is still available at our premises. We supported him throughout to solve the issue.(twice for sea trials at Birzebbugia and later at our premises.) Why should we not get paid for our repairs and injector replacements? The TLDI Outboards are AUTOMIX and do not require premixing.
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I agree with The Guffer in his last post. I wish this is could be done in this way but MISUSE is never covered by any guarantee. If there is a manufacturing problem, the client is backed fully by the factory. Yet note that ALL TOHATSU OUTBOARDS are pre factory tested. The engines that "Fail" at the end user, have problems created through unauthorised medling by clients.
How can we react differently, if our mechanic had tested the TOHATSU MF6Hp engine and passed all standard requirements. The engine in question perfectly under all normal circumstance. Why should we supply another outboard if this is not faulty? All that was needed is a mere engine oil change. The Tohatsu MF6Hp is not meant to be used as a main engine on a 14ft boat for hours on end and without any servicing. Oils are consumables and these must be changed accordingly as per manual instructions.
It is very easy to criticize, and i accept full constructive criticism. The economic hard times are for all, profit margins are getting lower and lower and to survive is no mean feat. Better still to win for the 4th time the Best 2009 TOHATSU Best Market Share award makes MECCA MARINE stand out.
Yes these are praises, and i enjoy such awards. These are all thanks to our loyal satisfied clients who come back to us to repower their boat or upgrade. Many others recommend us and this is why we have managed to become one of the largest Role Players in the Marine Business. We also have many of these which make us proud. Yet we also have high expectations from some clients who, when not entirely satisfied grumble. When these come to my knowledge, yes i go out of my way to follow, conclude and see that the problem is rectified. Some others have a hidden commercial agenda, which i will not elaborate and leave all of you to decide.
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From my posts you see that i am very active in promoting our products - Shanakook & The Gaffer well said that the advert on the DRAGO 550 i used models to attract the attention. This is done by all advertising media.
I described the factory and provided general information re DRAGO BOATS.: - A Personal point of view of the factory visit i pay to all the suppliers. I boast that i have visited and met all the factories of the products we import from, including TOHATSU Factory in JAPAN, BAVARIA YACHT Factory in Germany etc etc. More trips will follow to Japan now.
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Big Boy, Kevin, Mundinu said that i did not open the showroom to them and did not want to show them the boats??? Probably you came during the break from 1pm till 3.30pm or after 7pm when we are closed????Am i so crazy to refuse a sale when we stock up with over 65 boats/ribs on display and not show you around? come on!
How can the same guys in the same sentence say that the finish of the boats is not satisfactory when they did not see any crafts? All the boats on display are RINA, ISO 9001 certified.
Any constructive criticism is accepted and we shall do our utmost to satisfy our esteemed customers needs especially after 45 years at your service. 1964-2009
QuoteI wish this is could be done in this way but MISUSE is never covered by any guarantee. If there is a manufacturing problem, the client is backed fully by the factory. Yet note that ALL TOHATSU OUTBOARDS are pre factory tested. The engines that "Fail" at the end user, have problems created through unauthorised medling by clients.
This is a very very BIG, BOLD statement that I cannot ignore!! Misuse is not covered by warranty, TRUE, but needs to categorically be proven by the dealer with solid facts and tests (and if need be independant certification) to prove that there has been misuse. It cannot just be implied...'oh if it failed you must have screwed it up yourself'. If that was the case there would be no warranty department at Tohatsu! Engines that fail off the production line are of course removed and rebuilt, it's quality control and no manufacturer is perfect especially as certain components come from 3rd parties.
However I totally disagree that engines that fail at the end user are ALWAYS caused by the client!! That's total b***ocks to make such a sweeping statement, it may apply in some cases but not all the time!! I think you need to clarify that Nichol - Not even Tohatsu themselves would be in a position to stand by that statement.
Even the most prestigious brands have products that develop faults, and during the warranty period these are addressed and rectified as per the warranty conditions etc.
Apart from that, it's good to see a dealer taking an interest and providing his side of things along with other background information. Just remember that when you write something down, it's much easier for people to hold you to your word :)
QuoteQuote from meccanic 'How can we react differently, if our mechanic had tested the TOHATSU MF6Hp engine and passed all standard requirements. The engine in question perfectly under all normal circumstance. Why should we supply another outboard if this is not faulty? All that was needed is a mere engine oil change. The Tohatsu MF6Hp is not meant to be used as a main engine on a 14ft boat for hours on end and without any servicing. Oils are consumables and these must be changed accordingly as per manual instructions.'
Nichol i tought that you learnt the lesson that u dont treat customers like idiots after our conversation this morning. i was really begining to trust you. but now with this part that you wrote i take back all that i said good about you. we never said that we use the 6 hp as a main engine as a main engine he has another motor. the motor is used as auxiliary and used for trolling. yes it is used for periods of time say about 5 - 6 hours trolling but i tought that motors are made to be used especially the 4-strokes. who told you that it is working for hours on end without any servicing? i told you the last time he used it after he picked it up from you was for 5 hours trolling and the oil level from maximun went down to minimum. and that is only one incidence, the red light for oil level lit for 3 times in a year. how can you tell that all what was needed to fix the problem is an oil change if we are going to-morrow for the trial run. you told him to use thicker oil and when i told you that your mechanic told me that if the oil he is using supplied by you is in the manual you told me ok than if the my mechanic told so he knows what he is saying. dont change words now nichol you told me if the problem happens again after the trial run you will change the motor. its not impossible for a motor to be defective from the factory you even gave me one example. neither you nor the mechanic told me this morning that to solve the problem was simple as that just an oil change. why you told him to use thicker oil so that if the engine has a small leak with the thicker oil it wont happen and the motor seems ok? in a year i doubt it if he used the boat 10 times and from these 3 times the red light went on.
We see what happens to-morrow and i am looking forward for the explanation from your mechanic what the problem was and how he fixed it by simply changing oil.
this morning i didnt see any mechanic certificates and they should be at the showroom at all times. if they are still doing the courses say that cerificates will be issued when the mechanics pass their respective courses. and can you give more details about the award that you got and posted on the forum. like date and by whom you were given the award. by suzuki marine japan or suzuki marine europe the venue of the presentation or maybe some more photos of the event.
i was really begining to trust you after the conversation and the e-mails you sent me dont let me down nichol.as they say bad habits are hard to die
@ meccanic what oil change are you talking about. the last time that the motor was used for 5 hours and the oil level from maximum went down to minimum was after that the motor was picked up from you and you said that the oil was changed and my friend had to pay 25 euros. so it was new oil and your mechanic changed it.
and you told us to use thicker oil. we were using the tohotsu oil 15w 40 you gave him went he bought the motor. this type of oil is recommended in the manual. i already told you that your mechanic told me that it is good and you agreed with me. what made you change your mind from the morning to the evening. yesterday in the evening we phoned the mechanic to tell him at what time we were going to meet for the trial run and told him did you use the oil that we gave him because we had half a litre oil left from the one that nichol gave us. he told us no what i have is the same but it is better. we asked him but is it 15w 40 he told us yes. the SAME grade to the oil that we were using.
So nichol can you please explain where the oil change that solved the problem is? You have to answer so that the others will know. you just said a statement without giving the answer
Dear Meccanic,
Awards in sales quantitis has nothing to do with customer satisfaction and after sales service. It's easy getting up there but now let's see how long you can mentain it. The game is about QUALITY not QUANTITY my friend.
Please allow me.....
A turkey was chatting with a bull.
'I would love to be able to get to the top of that tree' sighed the turkey, 'but I haven't got the energy.'
'Well, why don't you nibble on some of my droppings?' replied the bull. They're packed with nutrients.'
The turkey pecked at a lump of dung, and found it actually gave him enough strength to reach the lowest branch of the tree.
The next day, after eating some more dung, he reached the second branch.
Finally after a fourth night, the turkey was proudly perched at the top of the tree.
He was promptly spotted by a farmer, who shot him out of the tree.
Moral of the story:
Bull Sh*t might get you to the top, but it won't keep you there..
http://www.tohatsu.co.jp/en/boat/sales/recall.html
this is a recall from tohatsu. i will not search for others because one is enough to prove the point that what you said that all tohatsu motors are 100 % good and without defects and if something happens is because of misuse from the customer is pure B****T. What is a recall than? do you have a different explanation to it from that of the manufacturer ?
Dear Mark and ALL,
When there was a product recall re TOHATSU I was always the one to bring it to light even to this forum as Nick can confirm. I also called the clients effected personally and rectified all.
Re quality tests by Tohatsu - this was just an explanation. In no way did i want to mean that we are not backing any guarantee... Nick you know that the cable of Euro375 was readily off the shelf and immediately did my utmost to help you out and replaced it immediately. The boat manual i have at my office. I tackle isues and have them ready and over with. The TOHATSU recall issue did not effect our serial numbers and therefore we could not launch it to the Maltese market but we have in fact launched it to the Greek Market where we sell engines too.
I confirm that if the defect is from the engine's side, we at MECCA MARINE are fully backed up by the companies in question and we go all out to support any client. Many a times, the japanese firms take up to 3 months to confirm a warrantee claim. In this case, our technical department takes over and we proceed with ordering the parts to our account. Than we are left to solve the issues with the suppliers in question. Our clients are our adverts and this is we invest heavily in the way we finish off our boats, our installations etc.
Thanks
Quote from meccanic 'The Tohatsu MF6Hp is not meant to be used as a main engine on a 14ft boat for hours on end and without any servicing.'
http://www.tohatsu.com/news/seiko.html
Tohatsu motors are made to work for hours on end.
C u soon nichol
WOW so a 2.5hp Tohatsu made in Japan is good enough to work 21hrs on a 21foot boat...........and a 6hp exported one to Malta is not good enough to move a 14foot boat for 5hrs.............something is very wrong here
Either that journey across the Atlantic is a gimmick or else the product in Malta is..............take ur pick and make a reasoned judgment.
oh this reasoning above is related to the posts here on the forum. Since meccanic said and i quote ''The Tohatsu MF6Hp is not meant to be used as a main engine on a 14ft boat for hours on end and without any servicing. Oils are consumables and these must be changed accordingly as per manual instructions.''
Now I ask a simple question which I hope will be answered as it is a bit mystifying.....
HOW CAN YOU MAKE AN OIL CHANGE (in this particular case) IF THERE IS NO OIL LEFT IN THE SUMP TO CHANGE???!!!???
Here something is really fishy. If the 2.5HP issue is not a gimmick, either the 6HP originated full of defects or something else is going on. I'm no expert at all, infact I don't understand a thing, but common sense is common sense.
Quote from: Meccanic on December 24, 2009, 08:50:32 CET
Dear Mark and ALL,
When there was a product recall both re TOHATSU and SUZUKI i was always the one to bring it to light even to this forum as Nick can confirm. I also called the clients effected personally and rectified all.
Re quality tests by Tohatsu and Suzuki - this was just an explanation. In no way did i want to mean that we are not backing any guarantee... Nick you know that the cable of Euro375 was readily off the shelf and immediately did my utmost to help you out and replaced it immediately. The boat manual i have at my office. I tackle isues and have them ready and over with. The TOHATSU recall issue did not effect our serial numbers and therefore we could not launch it to the Maltese market but we have in fact launched it to the Greek Market where we sell engines too.
I confirm that if the defect is from the engine's side, we at MECCA MARINE are fully backed up by the companies in question and we go all out to support any client. Many a times, the japanese firms take up to 3 months to confirm a warrantee claim. In this case, our technical department takes over and we proceed with ordering the parts to our account. Than we are left to solve the issues with the suppliers in question. Our clients are our adverts and this is we invest heavily in the way we finish off our boats, our installations etc.
Thanks
As has been said before, praise is due where it is deserved and I would like to make a couple of comments from my experience:
1) When I send Nichol an email, he always replies in a short period of time.
2) When I call Nichol on his mobile, he always takes my call, he never rejects it, even if I have to call back a bit later
3) Mecca did replace my engine harness, the harness came from stock and this was done immediately at no charge. They also sent along a replacement complete ignition switch in case it was that
4) Mecca had a spare ECU for testing to eliminate any problems (unusual to have some an expensive spare but great to see)
5) It may take some discussion to-and-fro which may seem frustrating at times, however a dealer must do their utmost to validate and investigate claims, and to date I have always ended up with a positive outcome.
6) Yes there are area's that need to improve and Mecca are aware and working on it, nobody is perfect and I'm sure with additional investment in human resources things will improve further.
Nichol was aware of the Suzuki recall issue when others said it didn't exist! We discussed the Tohatsu recall issue that I found but then determined it didn't affect the serial numbers of the local engines so no action was needed.
Having worked in sales myself for 6 years as an account manager for various manufacturers in I.T. I can confirm that warranty claims takes eons to process and often the local dealer has to replace from their own stock or at their own cost to keep the customer happy and then hassle the manufacturer to get the replacement. Some manufacturers are better than others at supporting their dealers, sadly in Malta we tend to get put to the bottom of the pile as we're a small country/market.
I think Nichol has shown he does take a big interest, however I think that perhaps due to the typical customers he deals with and that he feels passionately about what he does, he sometimes says a few extra words too many which raise issues with credibility. Nobody is perfect and in life both personally and at work we have areas that we need to address and work on to better ourselves.
All customers want to get their issues solved, but I don't want to see this turn in to an excuse to attack a dealer just for the sake of it please; such comments will be removed.
Unfortunately here I have to go against your line of thought Nick. I don't think it is appropriate to remove any posts unless proven to be false accusations or overboard! If they are true, then it is good for all members to know what type of service to expect from particular dealers - as far as I know we are here to share information - whether good or bad!
I have nothing personal against Nichol or Mecca Enterprises. In fact, hats off to him being here to face the music. I really admire him in this regard cause other distributors might just sit back and pretend not to follow what is going on in the forum! Unfortunately many Maltese distributors and agents have a lot to learn!
I just cannot understand certain aspects of their marketing but at the end of the day it's their business and they know how to run it! In my opinion, an example is what's wrong in mentioning that you parallel import a brand and are not the official distributor? It happens with car companies and white goods and I assure you that more people buy from the parallel importers than they buy from the official distributors because more often than not their prices are more competitive. But if on the other hand you claim that you are the official distributor when people know that you are not, they think in a manner that you tried to lie to them now let alone what would happen if you require their service!
Maybe there are no brand specialised mechanics yet, so what? just inform the consumer that you're working on it (if you are) and it soon will be in place! Everybody knows it's hard to find ceratin human resources locally and they need to be trained abroad which could be a hefty investment! Until that stage how about getting down a mechanic from Tohatsu (or wherever) say in February/March to trash out certain problems that your local mechanics maybe cannot deal with! Just an idea. I'm sure maybe the mother company might consider part sponsoring the trip/event.
In conclusion I consider this part of the forum a space where on one hand, we customers and friends can share information and on the other hand distributors can turn bad publicity into good publicity!
Dear Benri,
Re Outboard Mechanics these are: Robert, Eric and Norman. I have nothing to hide and these can easily be found through Mecca Marine showroom.
Benri, our mechanic is currently on the boat with MARK - who seems to have his own hidden commercial agenda, and with the owner of the outboard. The outboard, after already 2 hours of use on the same boat with 3 adulst on board, is working perfectly.
It is simple to say that after 25 to 30hrs of use, 4 stroke small engines with less than 800ml of oil, needs repalcement.
We are committed to aftersales, not in writing only but in direct action.
Should you need any aftersales during after hours, my mobile is 79732783.
Thanks and wish you all a very Happy Christmas by MECCA MARINE.
TOPIC LOCKED on formal request as per terms of our registration agreement - This procedure has already been adopted in the past when similar issues occured with Misterfish and Aquatica, and based on legal advice we cannot allow the forum to be a boxing ring; it is here to provide information and raise awareness. There are possible legal ramifications and ongoing legal proceedings covering certain issues mentioned in this topic, and therefore the forum administration has decided it is not in the forum's interest to be involved in those cases.
It is very difficult for the forum to validate the accuracy of what is written, Reference to: false accusations or otherwise and we have to move along as per the conditions in our registration agreement. We have no way of knowing what was said in person by either parties, and we are unable to validate the comments either way. Various comments have been made, factual or otherwise, and the forum cannot arbitrate/mediate between the two parties which is how things were starting to end up. The first two pages remained in topic, with help and advice being asked for/given and then it deviated from there.
Due respect was given to both the person complaining and the other party in equal value, however we cannot allow the forum to used as a boxing ring with a free for all fight, without any respect for the rules governing the forum as detailed in the registration agreement.
Many things have been said from various parties and now it's up to individuals to reach their own conclusions.