Malta Fishing Forum

Boat Fishing in Malta => Offshore & Coastal Boat Fishing => Topic started by: clutch_kick on May 04, 2011, 12:17:43 CET

Title: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: clutch_kick on May 04, 2011, 12:17:43 CET
The Lampuki season will soon be upon us, and I am sure that many of you will be searching for the brazilian beauties in earnest.

I am sure that a few of you have used spinning gear on Lampuki, and from what I have heard it was succesful.  Unfortunately not everyone is familiar with the technique and in my opinion it is much more fun and it will certainly save you a few cents of fuel.

In my case I use a medium spinning rod that has a casting range of 15-42g and I use 25lb braid on a 5000 size reel.  This is left on standby rigged up with a 20 to 40g casting jig, or a lure that is in the region of 90mm to 120mm.  Just troll another rod normally.  Once you find the shoal just idle the engine get the fish aboard, and quickly ge tthe spinning rod into the water. You can easily have 3 to 4 fish in succession before you must move again.  If you have a friend along, then you will basically catch the whole shoal, just make sure there is one fish in the water hooked at all times.  Unfortunately if you lose one as most of you know, the fish won't bite again, so you'll need to move off.

This technique works very well on Tunnids, and i suggest that you guys try it in the coming season, it is perfect to get secondary hits.  Especially for the Oris competition.  You'll need a 7' to 8' tuna popping rod, a fast 6000 or 8000 reel with 40lb braid, and a selection of casting jigs that range from 60g to 100g or even some large poppers if the fish are feeding at the surface on a baitball  While you are reeling in the Albacore, chances are the rest of the shoal is following it, that is the time to cast.

Try it guys it will save you some fuel from having to do repeated passes over the same spots and it is a million times more exciting than trolling.  If anyone wants some help just contact me and i'll guide you towards the right gear.
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: skip on May 04, 2011, 13:28:14 CET
Does anyone get the 7' to 8' tuna popping rods here in Malta, like the OTI ones but ideally cheaper!! I got a Daiwa 7 foot popping rod from the US that I will be trying out this summer
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: Moonwalker on May 04, 2011, 13:51:27 CET
Does jigging work with lampuki too?
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: maltembu on May 04, 2011, 13:58:26 CET
All I can tell you is once Four pukas around 6 feet  came running up after the jig but I had no bites from them... Naturally I freaked out..   :)
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: clutch_kick on May 04, 2011, 14:29:46 CET
Quote from: skip on May 04, 2011, 13:28:14 CET
Does anyone get the 7' to 8' tuna popping rods here in Malta, like the OTI ones but ideally cheaper!! I got a Daiwa 7 foot popping rod from the US that I will be trying out this summer

I can offer you MajorCraft popping rods Skip.

(http://203.141.131.230/images/1294239906028_1.png)

OB-77PG    Length: 7'7"   Pcs: 2   Line(PE): 3>5   Lure(g): 40>80   Max Drag: 8Kg
OB-710LC Length: 7'10"   Pcs: 2   Line(PE): 4>6   Lure(g): 60>100   Max Drag: 8Kg
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: clutch_kick on May 04, 2011, 14:32:19 CET
Quote from: Moonwalker on May 04, 2011, 13:51:27 CET
Does jigging work with lampuki too?

yes jigging does work with lampuki.  obviously stick to light jigging.  No use dropping a 150g or 200g Jig next to a FAD.  I would stick to a max 80g Jig, on 35lb braid, no heavier.  Remember the thicker the braid you use, the more pronounced the effect of current will be on the lure, thus you will lose control of the lure quicker.
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: robby017 on May 04, 2011, 14:38:37 CET
according to carlo leone, jigging pro for yamashita, we don't need more than 20lb braid for dentex, amberjack and groupers...... therefore, fur puki we'll even be safe with 15lb braid i believe.
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: clutch_kick on May 04, 2011, 14:41:58 CET
Quote from: robby017 on May 04, 2011, 14:38:37 CET
according to carlo leone, jigging pro for yamashita, we don't need more than 20lb braid for dentex, amberjack and groupers...... therefore, fur puki we'll even be safe with 15lb braid i believe.

Robby, Carlo is very right, but for somebody still starting out I would not recommend such light gear.  It is easy to get heavy handed and tighten up the drag a little too much. You will lose the fish, and the expensive lures too, and it will only serve to discourage you.  Once you get the hang of it, you will automatically move onto lighter gear, for better sport.
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: robby017 on May 04, 2011, 17:30:34 CET
come lampuki time we go try it out clutch_kick
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: clutch_kick on May 04, 2011, 17:52:59 CET
Definately.  i'm happy to help anyone who would like to set up their gear for these techniques.
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: maltembu on May 04, 2011, 18:36:32 CET
what is the difference between popping rods and spinning rods ?
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: clutch_kick on May 04, 2011, 18:57:20 CET
Quote from: maltembu on May 04, 2011, 18:36:32 CET
what is the difference between popping rods and spinning rods ?

Popping rods are really just strong spinning rods that are mainly used to target pelagic fish from boats, and for spinning in tropical waters.  They differ slightly from spinning rods as such because they have a softish tip and very strong backbone on the rods to fight strong fish.  When they are in 2 peices they usually come in an offset design, rather than the normal two peices of equal length.  This gives you the advantage of ease of carriage and similar characteristics of a one-piece rod.
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: benri on May 04, 2011, 19:01:26 CET
some very interesting and informative reading clutch_kick. Thanks!
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: robby017 on May 04, 2011, 19:11:25 CET
Quote20lb? seems rather risky. It might be ok for dentex which usually only fight for a few seconds, but with AJ s and grouper?? Groupers will always try to regain their lair and big mama AJs will ram themselves into the bottom or any under water obstruction to try and break loose. So it mostly slightly overtight drags and a tug of war till you get them into open water. Plus its not right to leave fish behind with a piercing and a dangling lenght of line

a number of us were there when we heard it........ 17kg grouper/ amberjacks reahing 40kg and numerous dentex..... simply using a high quality 20lb braid and if i'm not mistaken 10m of 40-55lb flourocarbon as leader
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: Moonwalker on May 04, 2011, 19:31:57 CET
What is the use of using such thin braid when you still have 10m of much thicker flourocarbon?
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: skip on May 04, 2011, 19:40:43 CET
It's to reduce the resistance in the water, allowing u to vertical jig rather than angled jig!
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: Moonwalker on May 04, 2011, 20:13:39 CET
Ok good explanation :)  Now are 10m  of flourocarbon really necessary or you can do with less (to reduce more drag)?
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: maltembu on May 04, 2011, 20:55:04 CET
Quote from: Moonwalker on May 04, 2011, 20:13:39 CET
Ok good explanation :)  Now are 10m  of flourocarbon really necessary or you can do with less (to reduce more drag)?

Less than 5m is not advisable.. 5 to 8m being the norm.. But you can use up to 10m.. Advice given by carlo leone..

Thanks clutchkick for the explanation..
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: clutch_kick on May 04, 2011, 22:22:34 CET
Start with 10m ... eventually you will end up with 5m :D   then it is time to change the leader lol
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: skip on May 05, 2011, 09:29:08 CET
The better you get and the better your equipment, rod/reel/line quality/terminal tackle the lighter you can go but yes whilst you will tend to get more hookups, though as Freedive pointed out you also stand a greater chance of losing fish depending on the species
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: robby017 on May 05, 2011, 18:59:07 CET
QuoteI never said it was impossible! Just risky.


Whats fishing without any risk ??????

just winching up a weight from the bottom of the sea....... many need to learn that its ok for the fish to win sometimes.... just my opinion.......  ::)
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: baghira on May 05, 2011, 21:33:20 CET
Very valid point freedive...
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: clutch_kick on May 05, 2011, 23:23:13 CET
Quote from: FREEDIVE on May 05, 2011, 21:23:14 CET
A fish with a hooks and maybe a couple of 100 metres of braid isn't exactly a winner as sooner or later it will snag and either die of exhaustion or starve (I ve seen it happen). If you want a winner, you can always release it (not all of them come up nearly dead). Hook-ups might be so rare that it good for us to win some times.

I wish to reinforce freedive's point here, he is very very right.  In fact many of my friends in Italy that fish for the Leccia Amia are now moving back to heavier tackle as opposed to light.  The stronger tackle let's you finish off the fight quicker, and the fish is in better shape to be released back into the sea.  people with a conscience are coming up with more ideas on conservation and preservation, one important factor is the banning of stainless steel hooks.  Some spinners are even substituting their hooks with barbless ones.  This would avoid having the fish swimming with a piercing in the form of a lure in it's mouth for a month or so, making it difficult for it to hunt and feed.

My friends ... take care of the fish that we so badly fish for.
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: twoutes on May 05, 2011, 23:33:37 CET
Keep in mind that braid has zero stretch.....the long mono leader acts as a shock absorber
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: clutch_kick on May 05, 2011, 23:37:36 CET
Quote from: twoutes on May 05, 2011, 23:33:37 CET
Keep in mind that braid has zero stretch.....the long mono leader acts as a shock absorber

Twoutes, the 10m of mono leader are too short to have any shock absorbing effect what so ever.  The Zero stretch is actually a desired trait because it give you a more direct control over the lure or jig.  The shock absorbtion need to come from your rod and reel, hence the need for good quality tackle, and a properly set drag when using braid.
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: Moonwalker on May 06, 2011, 00:39:17 CET
What if you use red braid instead of mono? Red should disappear below few meters of water right?
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: baghira on May 06, 2011, 06:40:51 CET
nope not disappear..........
It turns black moonwalker...
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: clutch_kick on May 06, 2011, 08:44:52 CET
Quote from: Moonwalker on May 06, 2011, 00:39:17 CET
What if you use red braid instead of mono? Red should disappear below few meters of water right?

Moonwalker, look a bit on the foreign forums and blogs. Especially the Italian ones since they are the closest we have to compare.  If red braid worked everyone would be using it and nobody would be using a leader, but they don't :D  ... keep using that leader buddy.
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: Moonwalker on May 06, 2011, 09:41:10 CET
I was expecting that answer but its never bad to ask :)
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: clutch_kick on May 06, 2011, 09:54:21 CET
It is always worth asking a question no matter how stupid it may sound.  Even if you get a stupid answer back, it's always better than nothing. :D
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: ganni on May 06, 2011, 14:04:17 CET
however the most imp reason why one must use a leader is for abrasion resistance and not due to visibility

and as regards to the 20lb braid im sure that no one is able to catch 40kg ajs at a satisfactory fraction of the fish lost, youll end up loosing much more fish than you'll ever land. and how many times are we likey to encouter a 40kg aj? be realistic...do you really want to loose that fish of a lifetime??

and some might say that its exciting to hear the drag go zzzzzzz.... its a matter of tastes but i prefer to put the gear to the limits by nearly locking down the drag...and like freedive said then you can easily release the fish...and thats what i call satisfaction and excitement

and its completely wrong to leave fish with jigs in their mouth just for the fun of fishing light... what we dont realise is that most of it is marketing...well the fishers have bought their 100-300g rods, lets make them buy lighter rods to keep our sales up

just my 2c
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: LapsiBoy on May 06, 2011, 16:09:15 CET
I have a friend who has a couple of good spots has been making some impressive catches of dentex and amberjack, The most impressive part is that he uses a 2 piece ''spinning/light trolling'' rod lol which is quite old..but he still catches more than most people who have spent loads of money!
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: redhead on May 06, 2011, 17:52:04 CET
Ganni is spot on on the marketing thing. Amen.
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: ken82 on May 06, 2011, 23:56:40 CET
In a nut shell .....thinner braid means more losses, and hence buying more braid and lures......

or am i far fetched???/
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: clutch_kick on May 07, 2011, 08:50:09 CET
Gianni does have a point, in the past years, VJ has focused a lot of heavy gear, now all the rage seems to be on lighter tackle.  Thinner lines will mean more hook ups for sure, but as he points out, it will invariably mean more losses too.  This is why i like to find a balance.

Now back to topic please ... this thread was about Spinning for offshore fish ... not a debate on line thickness.  So ... who's going to try it this year? Spinning for lampuki with top water lures is probably as exciting as it gets, and managing to hook up an Albacore on a Popper .... I can already in magine the drag screaming :)
Title: Re: Spinning on offshore fish.
Post by: ganni on May 07, 2011, 16:57:56 CET
lampuki on poppers must be awesome :) with regards to lampuki on jigs i have cught some, you tend to get the bigger ones