Dear All,
I want to share my experience when it comes to Boat Insurance, more specific Outboards.
Today's' Outboards come along with an EMM the heart of the engine, which is water cooled to avoid Overheating. The EMM is tightly sealed and there is no way water can get to the inner part but if the flow stops you may risk an EMM failure. This goes for all Outboard makes and not any in particular.
Unfortunately as many already knows I've had this problem ( a bag blocked water intake) and I am still in discussion with the Insurance because I ended up with a bag water the Water Intake.
What you have to be aware is ( especially if you are Insured with Gasan & Mamo) is that this company sent me a surveyor who although is highly qualified it was his first time looking at an outboard with this problem. The first Inspection ended up with a conclusion that the EMM was defective ([after 8 years of no troubles).
The EMM was ordered to my expense and the engine is now running well but to get away with it the Insurance is now looking at the failure of the EMM only and not considering what caused this to happen which was a clear accident which can be considered as an accident. Now because I had no extensive damage and I did not end up with a broken impeller and bits of plastic in it I guess I was not believed and so will any other.
I will Let you know with the outcome as I should be having a meeting but I would suggest to look for an alternative Insurance Company and more serious. This company will not consider any of the above as an accident unless they see actual damages.
See you around.
Renald.
Renald I suggest you post this on facebook......and in the rubs application of ''are u being served''....there are a lot of listeners there and I am sure that Gasan Mamo will not like to be exposed in this vast fora....
If it was me I would post in all fishing fora, stating the facts as they are happening adding nothing to harm the company as so far they have not come to a conclusion. when they do then post all that you like keeping within legal procedures. I would also suggest sending a letter to the mother company stating the facts and if you have a copy of the surveyor send that to.
Mind you they survey your engine and never bother to give YOU a report.
There are so many laws that have to be passed for the sake of the consumer we lack so many basic rights.
Thank you for this renald - It is not uncommon to catch a bag or any other material like logs and ropes at sea. I think your call is very right and the insurance got this very wrong.
Unfortunately Insurance companies nowadays do everything in their legal power to avoid paying claims given the market they operate in is highly regulated in their favour. Obviously, surveyors work in favour of insurance companies given they get paid from the insurance companies and most of the time paying a surveyor costs less than the claim...
Thanks for sharing Renald. If I'm not mistaken a new EMM/ECU is in the region of €1000 so that's quite an amount you had to fork out.
It' € 1380 including installtion, which is only € 80. What really pissed me off is that from the very moment I sat down on the Claims desk up to yesterday is that EMM is defective , EMM failure etc etc. But I m having 1 last meeting with them. May be they realise that the failure happened beause of something else.
May I also let you know that EMM hrs are different from engine hours. By just turning the ignition on but not the engine the EMM would be already ON and heating up. No water flow so no cooling system working.
Thanks for sharing Renald.
It's a shame that these insurance companies act so unprofessionally.
We fork out money and they take the decision (being always possibly in their favor)
What can the we consumers do.... Nothing basically..... They decide, we just pay....
I assume that they should have given you a written report, about the assessment they carried out.
And why they took such a decision....
I aslo find it very insulting that you had to purchase the part 1st. and then they see after if they will reimburse you!!!!
Renald, knock another door.....
The worrying part is more the surveyor aside from just the insurance company as there are only a handful of surveyors in Malta that insurance companies use.
I never used Gasan Mamo because when I bought my Saver that is Valletta registered I was told that single engined outboard boats could only be insured for 12nm because their surveyor said that outboards weren't as reliable as inboard engines! He came to this conclusion when I told him "How come single engined Z-drives and inboards are insured" and this was the answer I got. So clearly Gasan and Mamo need to invest in some better surveyors all around.
PROSET SKIP
That's rubbish from a surveyor. I was with a friend had 3 Volvo penta inboards, we were on our way back and we hand engine failure on two of them......things can happen to both inboards as much as outboards.
Quote from: ForTuna on January 25, 2014, 09:33:11 CET
. But I m having 1 last meeting with them. May be they realise that the failure happened beause of something else.
I really doubt it my friend.
Quote from: Granitu on January 24, 2014, 16:05:37 CET
Unfortunately Insurance companies nowadays do everything in their legal power to avoid paying claims given the market they operate in is highly regulated in their favour. Obviously, surveyors work in favour of insurance companies given they get paid from the insurance companies and most of the time paying a surveyor costs less than the claim...
I wonder how they take decisions!
At least we have fora to share experiences, and we know that people read them.
Quote from: baghira on January 27, 2014, 20:38:04 CET
Quote from: ForTuna on January 25, 2014, 09:33:11 CET
. But I m having 1 last meeting with them. May be they realise that the failure happened beause of something else.
I really doubt it my friend.
Quote from: Granitu on January 24, 2014, 16:05:37 CET
Unfortunately Insurance companies nowadays do everything in their legal power to avoid paying claims given the market they operate in is highly regulated in their favour. Obviously, surveyors work in favour of insurance companies given they get paid from the insurance companies and most of the time paying a surveyor costs less than the claim...
I wonder how they take decisions!
At least we have fora to share experiences, and we know that people read them.
Unfortunately, that is the truth - insurances tend to advertise that you are covered and all but under their legal system which common people would not understand (the fine line items in a small font) they are quite protected.
Recently there was an article on a financial magazine about the way the insurance industry works, and it is common knowledge that the way they regulate perils has been taken to an extreme globally - they have minimised their risk greatly and no wonder it is one of the most profitable markets in the world...
So , as promised I will give you an update of the situation.
Yesterday we sat down and discussed for almost an hour. Too many possibilities but no confirmation of the actual fault can be drawn out of the EMM due to total loss of the memory. And both myself and the representatives understood eachother about the actual situation. No proof can be presented by either side.
The final decision and I have to say it is a very Fair one ; I received a compensation 70-80% back for the new EMM. Taking into consideration that the Previous module was 8yrs old.
A happy ending for this situation.
See ya around.
Happy to hear Renald.
Seems that the insurance company changed its approach and understood the situation. ;D
Now we have a happy customer.
A satisfied customer leads to another.
Well done.
Glad for you Renald. Common sense prevailed at last. Well done to Gasan & Mamo as well.
Happy for you Renald. Couldn't they just come to this type of conclusion in the first place....oh well better late then never. But seems fair as with cars they also downgrade the price of original.
I have been in contact with Mr Mark Laferla JR, Assistant General Manager of Laferla Insurance Agency Ltd, with whom my boat, cars and home are insured. I had briefed Mr Laferla with ForTuna's claim to see Laferla Insurance's position, which after all, concerns myself as well as an insurer with the said company.
Mr Laferla took time and kindly commented as follows:
".... a bag/rope/fishing line getting caught in the intake or prop would be (and always has been in previous claims we've had) as a prop-fouling or such. Previously, insurance policies (including our own) used to consider prop-fouling as a specifically different type of claim, with its own applicable excess and limit. However, nowadays we have simplified our policy wording, policy structure and processes; hence a claim such as a bag being caught in the air-intake or propeller would be considered in the same way as a claim relating to hull damage due to impact for example. All claims for damage to the hull (including prop fouling) are handled in the same way, and excesses and limits are common.
I hope I've explained myself well. In short however, a claim for a debris caught in the air-intake or prop would be considered as covered. At least our policy would consider it as a valid claim, and likewise I expect that most policies in the local market would – because they're all very similar quite frankly."
In a follow up email, Mr Laferla quoted:
"... Regarding the claim, I can see your point, in respect of the fact that there may not have been 'obvious' evidence of what caused the damage but in the end it boils down to probabilities and quite frankly taking the client's word for it. I am not a mechanic and in such instances would rely on the advise provided by a qualified surveyor or mechanic – but if it is agreed that such damage could be caused by a plastic bag being sucked into or blocking the intake, then it would be assumed (unless there is evidence to show that something else could have specifically caused this damage) that it was in fact the cause of the loss, and hence considered a valid claim."
Hope this write-up is of help and consider Laferla Insurance as an alternative insurance company. Tight lines :)