Malta Fishing Forum

Thought I would post some information on the Petecraft Fastfisher 17 range that I went to see at the factory in Qomri. Well first off, the pictures don't do them enough justice at all! They are very well laid out inside for fishing, and even though the website photo's www.petecraft.com (http://www.petecraft.com) show the boat with a single pedestal seat, I was told this could easily be changed to a double bench seat that most are used to seeing, for virtually no additional cost.

One of the most amazing visual features about this boat is it's incredible bow flare; very similar to the Carolina bow flares so common on american sport fishing boats and center consoles, and in theory a main attribute for pounding through waves whilst still providing a dry ride. I'm not sure how good these hulls are on the water, as I've never been out on one.

Just behind the console is a very large full smooth gelcoat storage compartment perfect for keeping good sized tuna on ice. It didn't drain overboard but I was told this could easily be done.

Massive storage up front and also two baitwells at the rear to the port and starboard that could easily have airators added to them to be true live baitwell's.

Construction seemed very sturdy although they are being produced in a non dust and humidity controlled environment which might have longetivity implications, although for this kind of price range virtually no boats are produced in these kind of conditions and it's a credit to the team at Petecraft that they manage to get the finish they do given these conditions. Two rod holders already there for you, place to store four fenders at the stern, beautiful curves throughout, four 12 volt lights spread around the cockpit, a useful feature for fishing at night and seeing what you're doing!

There is a list of options that can be added to the boat, but above all it can be fully customized to your requirements. The only thing I found disappointing was that there was no secure place for rod storage.


Most foreign built center consoles have a nice large rear seat spanning the width of the boat which would let your store your rod in it, unfortunately the Petecraft doesn't have this. I did discuss briefly with one of the builders how this could be addressed, and he reckoned a modification would be done to the large storage compartment behind the driver, whereby a long slit could be cut out to allow the rods to be slid in between the double bottom and the cockpit sole. I guess there's only so much space on a 17 foot boat!

If you want one, GET IN THE QUEUE! I was taken a back when I found out the order list for this boat is a mile long with deliver if I'd placed an order that day being somewhere in September 2008. They can only produce 3 boats a month and so it certainly wasn't a case of being able to get one soon. This applies to all their boats by the way, it's something you need to think well in advance about. I was told they are moving to larger premises some time and this should help increase production.

Pricing for the base boat is Lm 3400, this doesn't include trailer or motor but does include: Integrated 100 litre fuel tank, nav lights, switch panels, seats, cockpit table, steering, bilge pump, and fishwells.

Engine Horsepower range: 40-115hp

You'll need to factor in a trailer, engine, bimini top and frame, guages and instrumentation etc.

Skip

What does it mean that these boats are made in a non dust and humidity controlled environment?  What's the issue about longetivity??

Shaftbomb, I will try and answer your question as best I can!

The killer to any fiberglass vessel is osmosis, whereby water penetrates through gelcoat which is a slightly porus material. For osmosis to occur water absorption by itself is not enough, this happens only when water reacts with some water soluble substances.  If you have a high relative humidity like we do in Malta, then you have water vapour present in the atmosphere. This can firstly affect the fiberglass sheets used to construct the boat whilst sitting waiting to be used, and start a fungal growth of xerophilic species, and also affect the resin cure time and also potentially trap water vapour in the process as it's laid.

These factors might all affect the longetivity of a fiberglass boat as osmosis does not tend to manifest itself until after around 4-5 years.

See the below the main causes of osmosis:

1) Poor gel-coat quality, in the case it is made with a poor moisture permeability resistance resin: nowadays, in order to obtain the best guarantee of low permeability no solvent resins are used.

2) Poor moulding practice so that a void content in the laminate is crated

3) Use of excessive catalyst during the lamination process (to obtain a faster cure/dry time)

4) Poor workshop environmental conditions (too cold or too humid)

5) Presence of impurity or solvents in the glass fibers or in the resin (Naturally or ambiently)

Dust in the air can carry a host of microbes and is not desirable in most instances, and I would imagine also in the case of boat construction, painting etc. It could also have an effect on the finish of the end product, so where possible I would expect measures are taken to minimise dust.

The last thing any boat owner wants as I mentioned above is osmosis, this is why it is advised to put an epoxy barrier coat on new hulls covering the area that will be immersed in water for long periods of time, to help prevent the crucial water absorption needed for osmosis to occur.

As you may be aware the construction of GRP hulls is usually made up of the following components:

Gel-coat applied first to the mould and that forms the smooth outer surface

Fiberglass tissue, smooth and porus that sits under the gelcoat and helps smooth out the roughness of fiberglass matting

Fiberglass matting that forms the bulk of the material

And finally resin mixed with hardner (the catalyst), that's applied to the fiberglass to bond it all together.

The drying process involves a chemical reaction which has several variables including, the amount of catalyst, temperature, humidity, and any water present in the fiberglass resin (water shouldn't be there!).

Fiberglass resin drys best in warm conditions with low humidity and current thinking is that cleanliness, temperature and humidity control in the moulding shop, and precision of the mix of resins, are the key to building boats that will not blister.

It is important to stress that this all being said, it seems there are no guarantees or otherwise that a boat will or will not experience osmosis or other problems, whether it's been built in a humidity controlled environment or not. This is why most manufacturers typically only offer 3-5 years warranty on their hulls as osmosis tends to manifest iteself after 5 years from statistics that have been gathered, and ideally for manufacturers this would happen after their warranty period.

I want to make a few points clear:

i) I am by no means an expert on fiberglass construction, and the views expressed here are simply my own opinion based on what I've read online, heard from boat owners etc. This is the whole concept of a discussion forum.

ii) This should by no means be interpreted as specific to Petecraft or otherwise, as clearly indicated in my above post, it was merely an observation, which is why I wrote 'might have longetivity implications', because it may or may not be the case.

iii) I have not been to the construction yards of other manufacturers either local or foreign and therefore cannot and have not commented on the environment in which their boats are built.

If anyone wants to do some reading up on osmosis and some of the issues mentioned above, feel free to refer to the following URLs, like I have done.

http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/osmosis.htm
http://www.nauticalweb.com/info/maint/osmosi_e.htm
http://www.diseno-art.com/tutorials/fiberglass.html

And of course, as always with any of my posts, if anyone feels I am talking utter rubbish and can provide additional insight, feel free to jump in and post accordingly.

WOW

Why is it that after reading Skip's article I feel doomed? Any idea shalook!!!

Wow what an article!  :o  Thanks...  I think getting dust between sheets of fibre is inevitable.  By the way, I've been a proud owner of a petecraft 18 feet for 11 years and that boat is just great for pleasure and more for fishing.  Now im waiting for a delivery of a 22 footer also by petecraft..

Shaftbomb, don't worry, I just took delivery of a Marino Gabry 5.50 which is a mass produced Italian boat. Of course osmosis is at the back of my mind, it's described by many marine surveyors as the 'cancer' of a boat, something that in essence is present in all GRP/FRP vessels and if many many variables occur can manifest itself over time. In my particular case, point no. 2 of the main factors causing osmosis, 'Poor moulding practice so that a void content in the laminate is crated' is my main concern as I have some wavy lines down the side of the hull :( - See my review of the Gabry and the issue I feel there is with the mold.

At the end of the day all boat owners, regardless of brand are in similar waters, and for most people they will never see their boat being constructed so one has no idea of what it's been through etc. Local boat builders have been building boats for years and I'm sure over time have found ways to adapt the local environment to produce a good end result. If not they wouldn't have people using their boats for 11 years like you, and wouldn't still be in business.

You have the advantage of being able to regularily go and check on the construction of your new boat, provide customer specific requests/feedback as it's being constructed, and as I think the Maltese as a nation tend to take very good care of their material possessions you will have no problems. Do the minimum 5 coats of Epoxy barrier on the hull that sits in the waterline, either using Gelshield 200 or West Systems and enjoy your boat.

You owned your 18 for 11 years with no issues and no doubt this will be the same for the 22 which I'm sure you'll have countless enjoyable hours fishing on. I very much liked the finished product I saw at Petecraft, the boats looked very solid which seems to be a very posisitve attribute of locally produced boats :)

I know Petecraft are planning to move to new premises, so it would be nice if they took it one step further (if financially viable) and considered temp/humidity control and dust minimisation (elimination I think is impossible in Malta unless you're in a hermetically sealed room!!). That would really elevate them in terms of putting them on par with some foreign produced boats that are made in such environments. Though perhaps it would increase the cost of the hulls beyond most people's reach, and let's face it, for all of us myself included; cost is a Major issue.

Out of curiousity, what's the hull warranty period on new Petecraft's?

i think that SKIP post is a interesting contribution to us fish enthusiasts!
Well Done Skip :o

Petecraft are well known for building hulls capable of taking on head on waves.  Actually, the Aquilina(s) Petecraft and Tar-Ratal in B'Bugia are well renowned for boat building.  Tar-ratal have produced some quality boats, both fibre and wood, especially the famous Bimbu fishing boat.  The bow flare is a trademark with tar-Ratal boats, and their father, Giuzeppi, is the best in the business for building traditional fishing boats like Kajjik, Luzzu and Bimbu.  Peter, Giuzeppi's brother, also has great skills in boat building.  It was and still is a great pity for the maltese boat building industry that these two families went their seperate ways to producing local boats - One wonders what the potential would be if they had to forge a partnership and produce boats as one family.  Giuzeppi's sons carried on in the same boat building business, but switched to fibreglass, but they still retain the great skill, knowledge and patience required for boat building using wooden planks or boards. 

For what i cansay, Petecraft are awsom in boat building. They build great fast fishers which are very steady in rough seas and are also great for taking the family out. 10 years ago my late grandfather had bought a fast fisher 24 from petecraft. It was incredible we used to spend countless hours fishing on it and also we used to go as a whole family on satudays and sundays to commino. It was powered by twin Iveco 330s turbo diesel engines.

Today my uncle has the largest boat being made by petercraft. It is the largest they have ever made and those who are at the factory they must have seen it. If not it can be seen very soon in xemxija with the name of pegasus under the company Dolphin Cruises. It shal be powered by 2 Industrial marine Volvo Penta engines which are turbo charged.

Well as a whole i would really recomend Petecraft and when the time comes for me to make a large fiber fishing boat i will surely get it from them as i have great faith in their work.

The question of Osmosis has baffled people for ages.  I have read elsewhere, that boats used in fresh water conditions (like lakes and lochs) are more susceptible to osmosis then salt water boats. As skip recommended, the best prevention is applying a barrier system before the boat even touches the sea.  When I shipped my boat over from the US, 1st thing I did was strip it down to its bare hull, and sand blasted the hull below the waterline.  I was assured by the seller that it was osmosis free, and a US marine surveyor report rulled out osmosis (the_gaffer has always been an open sea boat)- I still wanted to make sure it was blister free.  I also removed the gelcoat.  My boat was manufactured 30yrs ago, and I needed to make sure that there was no sign of blistering or stress cracks or hairline cracks on the hull.  Following a close inspection by a warrented marine surveyor in Malta, I was assured that none of the above was evident.  I proceeded to apply 2 coats of gelcoat.  As soon as the second coat was tacky, I applied 6 coats of West system epoxy water barrier.  The system is applied one over the other, with the second and following coats applied as soon as the previous one becomes tacky.  At least my hull is protected for the next 10yrs, although this only applies to boats which spend all the year round in the sea.  I haul my boat come January of each year, so there is ample time for the hull moisture to dry out. 
Make sure that you touch up your water barrier everytime you see either a crack or scratch.  These can inevitably happen especially when hauling or putting the boat in the sea. Water can seap in between the crack, compromising the barrier, and it would be rather difficult for that water to dry out.  Thats when the trouble starts!!         

Bigboy, I dont know you but I think i know your late grandfather.   Was his boat white with a blue stripe?  I think he had two 130hp Ivecos not 330s......

Yes it was white with a blue stripe. His name was john from imsida he used to keep it moored at pieta. Could be 130s as i was still young so im not gonna say ur wrong.

Practice shows that boats built in malta have been used for countless years, so I'm sure about their solid construction. Abbuses have been made by manufacturers. Before I settled for a Kaptan boat, I went about and visited a number of local manufacturers, some things I saw didn't impress me at all. I even saw one trowing saw dust between the layers of fiberglass. Playing the fool I asked why the sawdust. The answer "so that the consequtive layer has a better hold".
The humidity factor is the biggest problem, after that is the dust in the work place. Re mould maintenance, I think they are kept imaculate, this because if not it will be very hard geting the finished product out of the mould even with the smalest defect.
What worries me most from Skips topic is the fact that I know for sure that most manufacturers increase the amount of hardner to speed up the prosess, and this is common practice.
I have followed closely the building of my boat layer by layer. Finished off with "delta rosso" antiosmosis treetment. Just 3 years after, I noticed small bubles just under waterline. Later going down to all under water surface. When examined they where water trapped between gelcoat and osmosis treatment. Eventually I painfully stripped all exposing gellcoat and applied the gelsheald 2000 as spesified by manufacturer (5 coats).
Couple of years gone by noticed that bubles came back. What I do now? I reason when the water starts seeping through the hull more than the bilge pump can take........we have an other artificial reef. I think I'll be long dead by that time.
What I like to add up is that although most boats are nicely finished and equipped, many a times we see boats going in because sea is getting rougher while we are going head on out there fishing.

Ramio,
All is not lost.  Yes, I do beleive from your post that you have osmosis, but this can be treated successfully.  Just google the net for osmosis treatment, there are heaps of information how to tackle it.  I would highly recommend West System epoxy for repairs though.  It is a bit pricy, but according to many US and European boatyards, it is the best for rebuilding layers and providing the much needed water barrier.  Lets have a chat about this during the BBQ. 

Ramio,

Interesting feedback about the local boat builders. There is a good chance that more catalyst (hardener) is used to offset our high humidity, otherwise the resin won't cure. As to what the knockon effect of that truly is, I wouldn't know with any level of accuracy.

I agree that mould maintenance should be a No.1 priority to maintain the finished product, unfortunately with mass production and deadlines it seems that at least in the case of Marino this is being ignored. I was watching a promotional video of a US boat builder and they were talking about their moulds. It seems that re-surfacing a mould is a pretty lengthy labour intensive procedure and that after each pull, the mould needs to be properly cleaned and polished before the next one goes on.

Read up on those links posted above as one of them contains detailed info on how to treat osmosis. To be done right it's a pretty involved and expensive task, and applying gel shield once it's present is not enough. Read this bit:

'If blisters are small in diameter and concentrate on a definite hull area not completely affected, we can say that this is young osmosis; if on the other hand blisters are spread most of the hull surface are of large diameter with dark pressurized liquid inside, we can say that we are in presence of old and severe advanced stage osmosis. '

no ramio's blisters were like the size of a pin head. they didnt smell when burst as they should (smell of vinigar).
the mould is kept clean and polished. The problem is not always the boat manufacturer but the supplier of the resin.
Ramio was present for the production of his boat and knows that if the process was not 100% perfect it was better than most manufacturers....
T

The hull is built sturdy enough to take a beating and as ramio said we still go out when others are coming in. 

So looks like early osmosis, so should be easily treatable then before it becomes advanced osmosis. It won't go away on its own. True about the resin, ambient conditions, amount of hardener etc etc.

Skip, the small bubbles (1mm to 4mm max) when burst had clear liquid and never was any of the gelcoat damaged or marked. I never going to go through stripping treatment again, and never really bothered about it as usually boat is up on dry land from january to may, so it has a good time to dry. I don't think that even with osmoses, the thickness, and amount of resin that I got in the hull will ever give in in my life time.

Hi Mario,

The fact the bubbles had liquid in them would be of concern, maybe enough to get a marine surveyor to check them even though as Shanook said they had no smell. Better to be safe than risk it becoming something more serious, at least to have peace of mind.

I will definately go and have a look at this boat...wow with an e-tech or suzuki 4 stroke!!!Very nice boat and nice finish!!

That's a really nice boat camkev....ask for a trial run and you will fall in love with that boat.....

Kev Kev Kev Petecraft qed insemmu sihbi ;) Whenever you want we can go speak to mario ;)

Here kev     http://www.petecraft.com/

Guys,i am Seriously thinking about buying this boat,the finish is awsome and the storage space is good.I think i will buy it with a blue hull..ax il mara hekk ogbita!!Regarding the motor i dont know yet but it's Definitely between Suzuki 90-4 stroke or e-tech..dont know if they have a 90 hp.Will be visiting petercraft shortly and ask about the delivery date and some modifications like skip mentioned,the driver seat i want it for 2 persons and not that kind.What do you think guys about this boat and motors???

PeteCraft.... my dream boat! even with the 14 ill be happy! The finish is superb...

kevin before you buy a boat try it first. try one with the same set up you want it. a boat with a good finish doesnt mean that it is good in the sea altough its nice to have a boat with good finishing but the most important it is good at sea. and dont try it on a calm day at least try it on a force 3 to 4 - 4 wind. and take a handheld gps with you to check top speed because here in malta i think that everyone has a different gps. dont just rely on what others tell you try for yourself because you are going to take out the money and you have to be happy with it

I second what Busu is saying. definately you want to try the boat in a good Force 3-4, ideally somewhere like the Gozo channel where everything funnels. That way you can test in both a head sea and a following sea and see how the boat behaves. Like whether it nose dives, slams etc off waves, is good in a following sea or head sea etc etc.

The new 2009 DF90 is a serious contender at 155kgs, and the ETEC 90 is around 150kgs so both very similar in weights, though the Suzuki runs a greater reduction on the gear ratio allowing it to swing a bigger prop.

This would be a fantastic comparison, perhaps we can get Zarb Stores, RLR and Petecraft involved and get a good review up here.

I think this petecraft model has already been tested with suzuki outboards by Suzuki Marine International.  Infact on Zarb stores website there are already some photos of this boat with a suzuki outboard.
Also Kevin, think twice regarding colour blue as it will be nice for the first few years but later the sun will eat it and fades away.

For sure i will test the boat before buying it,i am not that crazy.Regarding what you said skip(This would be a fantastic comparison, perhaps we can get Zarb Stores, RLR and Petecraft involved and get a good review up here.)How can we do this?It will be very interisting!!

Kevvvvv insih il blu......... It will fade ;)

Heq ideally they need a boat already running a Suzuki 90 and then put an ETEC 90 on the same model unless Petecraft have sold one with an ETEC.

yep as busu said a boat has to be tested in the water.........once it is sea worthy then take a looks at the cosmetics. Bigboy is wise beyond his years.......the blue it will fade and look yakky........and old. stick to white kev. there are other reasons for doing so (uncles cimi yes).
Also since u are interested in fishing try to reach the sea as if u are catching a fish.
Good luck and dont rush, see other boats before deciding its ur money man.

i no one as new but 15 ft look 20 ft is briliant much beter

Just came back from a sea trial of this boat!!...IMPRESSIVE...We were 5 people on board including maltembu and bigboy,these 2 were sitting at the back + another person,myself and the driver were in front.3800 rpm the boat was plainning going approx 20 knots.At one time the speed went up to 39 mph.We went out of port into the 2 mtrs swells,The boat was hitting the waves about 30 mph like the sea was calm,no vibration,no slamming and no splashing into the boat.We even stopped in the swell to check about the balancing and again impressive,bigboy was moving from one side to the other to check this out.Then we tried the minnimum speed to plain and was about 3 rpm going aprrox 15 knots always depending on the condition of the sea.Another thing is the space and finish of this boat...well no comment  ;)..One last thing i want to mention is the suzuki 4 stroke...IMPRESSIVE,noise,torque and consumption 10 out of ten...well guys,i think this will be my next boat.Maltembu and Bigboy will say what they think about this boat later on!!!

kev u forgot to mention the hp of the susuki

90 hp

Its a nice boat kev.It was a go between this and the iside this year for me. We choose the iside cause the cabin was bigger.

and u were doing 40mph with a 90 and 5 people thats WOW

Well there is nothing more to say about the boat as kevin pointed out everything.

As many of you know i am in love with petecraft boats and i must say that petecraft are always improving their products to get out the finest of maltese boats on the market. Well this boat gets 100points from me i surely could not find anything that is not right in the boat. The fact that it managed to reach 39mph with 5 of us and 3 of us which were sitting at the back is surely impressive.

Well we should be proud of what Petecraft is offering on the market :) Well done Petecraft 100 points :D

As kevin and bigboy said, this boat was abused in an incredible way and the results where outstanding.

One dream of a boat..

Good run down on things.....

Were you measuring the speed with a handheld GPS as in places you mention knots and in others mph.

Also do you know what prop they were using (pitch?) and also what the fuel consumption figures were like? Did they have a digital gauge fitted, the type that will show you the actual fuel consumption being read directly off the engine?

33.8 knots flat out is a good speed with 5 people on board.....was that at full throttle, what was the max rpm that was being acheived?

I had really liked this boat and if it wasn't for the long lead time to manufacture it I'm sure it would have been a contender.

Does anyone have an indicative price including trailer?

Rob

will send you a pm later,if you want i am going to petercraft this week...you can join ;)

looks like ur mind is set kev...........

@ Shanook..No my mind is not set yet,i liked the marinello fisherman as well!!!The more i see the more it's difficult to choose.

@Skip...When we were doing 39 miles an hour it was with full trottle and about 5800 rpm,regaring the prop i think they were running a 17!!

kev inti dw.. li jogbok ixtrih man :P hehee....

Kev I wish I could lend you mine for a sea trial but as shanook told you it's on the hard now. Unfortunately I cannot give you an unbiased opinion as I'm totally satisfied with the set-up I chose and I never tried out a petecraft. Also, mine is the fisherman 19 version with a suzuki 140 while you're looking at something smaller which could perform differently.
All I can tell you about the shape of the hull is that with my hull I can keep the boat on a good plain with 4-5 people as slow as 13 knots. When fishing, you're not going to use just high speeds (which the Marinello is very capable of) but also slow speeds. In fact I got a higher pitched prop to reduce revs and add torque. Don't forget to try the hull at slow trolling speeds too and if possible try to check that consumption too. What I can vouch for is the service that Tony and Daniel of Hi-tec give! To give you an example, when I bought my boat the trailer was back heavy and almost toppled to the rear if I was not careful. I told them about the fault and Hi-Tec agreed that the trailer needs to be modified with the axle shifted backwards. To do this, the welding needed to be cut and then re-welded. They told me to leave the boat on it and when I eventually launch again the year after, they would launch the boat for me and take the trailer for modifications. A year after that's exactly what they did, and guess what. The same day they took the trailer, to my great surprise Daniel phoned me in the afternoon and told me that it was ready. I called for it, and guess what?.... They didn't modify the trailer so as not to ruin the galvanising by welding, but they changed and gave me a whole new front part (as the trailer is split in two) to make the trailer longer! All this a year after I bought the boat! Not only that, when I hooked the trailer to my car, the wire for the lights was short as the trailer was now longer and to my astonishment, Daniel even gave me an extension to the wire free of charge!!!!
When spending this considerable amount of money, you want to keep your mind at rest that should anything crop up, you have someone reliable to turn to and with Tony's experience in boat building, rest assured that they will not import any crappy hulls!
I'd like other people with a marinello to give you their feedback too as I'm sure mine is not a one-off case!

Tks benri,i have to go and check the garage cause the boat is very wide 2.3 metres.I liked the boat very muc and the price is cheaper then the petercraft,but i didnt decide yet and i think it's going to be hard to choose.My first 3 choices are 1st petercraft,2nd marinello fishermen 17 and 3rd raniera voyager 17...but still have to go and see the kaptan boats and the northstar for sure...possibly more...and it's fun going to shops to see boats!!

I had liked the Ranieri as a sports boat but didn't think it was suitable for fishing and if memory serves me well has a very low freeboard.

Camkev I don't know you personally but from what you are writing on the forum you seem to want a boat for fishing and a go around the islands with friends/family.  Like Skip wrote, a great majority of foreign built boats (without mentioning names) seem to be either built/designed for fishing or as a completely sport boat.  In my opinion Maltese built boats seem to combine sport fishing into one hull design and that's why sometimes in one ear you hear positive reviews on them and on the other hand you hear negative reviews.  Also keep in mind that if you buy a maltese boat you can see it being built step by step with more options for custom options and piece of mind.  Anyway, just my 1 euro cent view.....