I'm new to this forum, although i've read many posts on various subjects. I intend to buy a small boat between 14 to 16 footer, and i saw a couple of Poseidon 470 and it seems to me that they are well designed and very spacoius inside. Most of them are fitted with a Selva 40 Hp engine . Would like to hear some opinions and reviews about them before I commit myself. Thank you.
Not sure if they are still imported by Hi-Tec Marine as I am under the impression that Hi-Tec are no longer in the marine business.
I would be inclined to have a chat with a couple of local builders like Petecraft and Kaptan.
Napuljun go and talk to kaptan builders they are professional right now they re making me a seabrave 14 footer,very helpful and ready to listen to your needs you won t regret it hundred per cent.
Skip, I've seen both of them, but to be honest, for me, both boatbuilders tried to built a boat that is a pleasure boat and a fishing boat at the same time. For example the kapan has the front seat too big and it consumes a lot of space for fishing needs. As to Petecraft, I'm not sure how well it is designed. In a thread somewhere here, I've read that Malvizzu has a similar boat with a 50 Hp engine and he still find it very difficult to plane it. Still thank you for your comment
Sorry to *jump* into the discussion, but I'd like to add my opinion :) Before buying a boat, one should list his needs.. Thus, are you looking for a fishing boat or a run around boat? I see nothing wrong in MY opinion when boat builders try and mix both. As for me. I LOVE fishing, but the lady of the house enjoys a nice afternoon swim.. Thus comes the builders reasoning. In my opinion, both Kaptan and Petecraft as well as Buccaneer (I ordered one) have excellent boats! The finish on the boats and customer service is second to none! While I can't comment on the Poseidon 470 as I never seen/ridden one, I am full of praise for the Maltese boat builders, which by time they are getting only better! So my opinion is this.. See what you really want/need.. A boat of 12-14 feet will have it's limitations due it's size.. But again..priorities take over. So think, think and think than decide :) That's my 5c.. Good luck with your choice! May it bring you happiness!
Regards,
Mark
Like markmalta said you need to know for which reason you like the boat but honestly to critisize those builders I can t understand after the great product they did.With all respect I hope you find a better one but have my great doubts you ll ever succeed.Buying a 14 footer has its limitations you can never have everything even when u buy larger boat.
Msell, I,m not criticising anyone. I just said that with regards to Kaptan boat , in my opinion, the front seat is too big which renders it useless and take a lot of important space, if you intend to use it as a fishing boat. Forget it to use it as a cooler. I understand that you own one and for you is the best boat you can buy.
Who is the local agent for Suzuki please ?
Strand Marine - Qormi (Mriehel bypass - near Crosscraft)
@Napuljun. Why don't you go and have a look at the new Commander 450 boat? It seems extremely well designed with a good hull. Maybe other forum members can have a say about it.
I personally have a Seabrave 14 which is the new Kaptan. True, the front seat is big, but it is very comfortable for pleasure uses. Two persons can have a good comfortable nap on it and I have also stayed overnight on it. Mine is equipped with an eTec 50hp, and with the right Prop configuration it is a pleasure to ride. Never had a problem to plain, can plain easily with 4 large persons on board, and probably even more. Hydrofoils have also made a big difference for rough seas.
Quote from: Napuljun on August 21, 2016, 06:11:49 CET
... In a thread somewhere here, I've read that Malvizzu has a similar boat with a 50 Hp engine and he still find it very difficult to plane it. ...
So, as I was mentioned in this post, let me view my opinion. It's true that at the moment I am having an issue with planning my Petecraft 14 footer but mainly because I added an 8HP auxiliary outboard which in turn adds unwanted weight at the back. Usually I go fishing with my father and whilst slow trolling the boat moves beautifully. When I increase speed significantly, it's a different situation. If he stays up front I have no problem to plan the boat and stay that way. If he sits at the back, yes it's an issue. This summer I found the issue a little bigger with 3 or 4 people on board, even if they all stayed at the front.
Could be various reasons. The main one could be the type of hull the boat has. The second, and which is a bit of a concern, is that I think the main engine might be sitting low and from feedback I had from a foreign forum, and that the engine should be raised 2 holes up. That sad, I have to take boat to Petecraft and have it adjusted and tested on water cause I'm not able to do it myself. Just before summer I bought professional hydrofoils but have had no time to install and test the boat.
As for the use of the boat, and as stated in previous comments, you have to choose your priorities as to fishing, leisure or both. A 14 footer, whether it is a Petecraft, Seabrave, Bucanneer, Commander or other, you are always limited for space. The new boats having a deck, driving console and large seats which consume much of the needed space for fishing. I opted a centre console for my boat as I wanted a 45L fuel tank under it. I could not place console on the side with that weight as it would have tilted the boat. Other side console boats have a little bit more space than mine. I previously owned a 13ft single leaf frejgatina (hull only although with double bottom) and had more space inside than my 14 footer. If you need your boat for fishing and with ample space, than forget about a 14ft. You should go to at least 18ft, and than again has to be designed for fishing not leisure. A friend of mine has a 17ft Eolo and although it's large from the outside, from the inside it hasn't much more space than mine due to a large console and very large front seat nearly half the boat. But than again, it's a pleasure boat not a fishing one.
As regards to Maltese-built boats, rest assured that they are truly well built for our Maltese waters. The guys from Petecraft, Seabrave and Bucanneer are all great guys and have pride in their workmanship. I have met them all more than once and are all more than willing to help and advise you. Obviously, each one promotes his boat best :) All these boats are well finished as well. Petecraft also export their boats to Australia and Sweden (maybe I sound a little biased, but it's a fact).
So in my opinion, see your priorities well and than choose your needs as regards to use and size. Whatever you buy, make sure you stay within your budget and most importantly stay safe at sea. Good luck.
What RPM is your Etec revving at WOT Malvizzu (with a typical load) and when the boat correctly planned?
@Redhead - I'm not technical with these WOT things and never understood how they work. But here are some details which might shed some sense.
Prop size aluminium 13.25 x 17, the one which came with the engine.
Before installing the auxiliary, boat does not go over 5200rpm with 2 or 3 people. When I tested boat with 3 people and 45L of fuel, she gave 28.1 knots at 5200rpm. When I tried a smaller prop boat gave 26.5 knots at 5500rpm. The motor is fitted on the 2nd holes. One thing that I noticed is that with the smaller prop the boat planned much quicker but lost some top speed.
I have not monitored boat with auxiliary attached.
Normal load is 2 persons (approx 73kg and 80kg), 45L fuel tank under centre console, 22L tank up front under the seat, battery under back seat, sports bag with fishing tackle, 2/3 fishing rods, small cooler, anchor with chain & rope, small tool box and 2x5L water jerry cans.
@Malvizzu. I'm by no means an expert, but with that power installed on a 350kg boat with two persons, you should be flying. I know of other people with the same issue, that spent a lot of energy trying to rectify it, and they haven't succeeded. They finally had to sell the boat. That's why on my previous post, I talked about an inefficient hull. From my heart, I wish you can solve this issue, because you seem to be a very honest guy.
Have a look at this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bag6ZHTpRFc
malvizz, have you tried talking to the guys of Petecraft? I'm pretty sure that a solution does exist..
WOT simply means wide open throttle. Gas down bil- Malti !
5200 is low for an etec. It means it is struggling to turn that propeller. Leave everything as it is and fix the other smaller propeller. This should solve your problem. If not, go to petercraft and demand why this is happening. A 14ft boat with a 50 etec should plan without problems with 3 or 4 people aboard.
@Napuljun / Markmalta / Redhead - Great video. That Poseidon surely flies. True I'm not happy with performance and having great difficulties on WOT (thanks redhead). Again this morning only my father and myself. At one point he was sitting at the back and couldn't get the boat down and engine's noise was like revving all the time. Also ETEC seems like dipping in water at high speed. When he went up front, boat handled better.
Yes I did speak to Petecraft brothers and Mario offered lifting engine to it's maximum and do some sea trials. Most probably will take up offer or maybe before that instal hydrofoil and than smaller prop.
Thanks guys.
You're 'killing' your E-TEC by bogging it down with that prop.....get yourself into a safe REV range. You can't keep adding weight to the boat (Aux) etc and expect to keep the same prop.
On smaller boats, weight distribution is very important. You have a lof of things at the stern of the boat and you will probably find that the engine anti cavitation plate is under the water when you are running rather than being on top. When you shift the weight towards the bow you are allowing the cav plate to be on top and the engine to perform as it should.
Move as much weight as you can to the bow
Raise the engine and test to see how the boat performs and what your max revs are,
if still low: Reduce the pitch of the prop and consider a non raked prop with larger blades to carry the weight of the boat.
Whilst a hydrofoil adds lift it also creates drag so bear that in mind.
To the OP, for whichever boat you're considering, make sure you go out and test it before buying and also try and simulate your typical load to help you get an idea of how the boat will actually perform.
If you take a 'stock' 14 footer, 40-50hp and std fuel tank and just add the people it will perform very different to a boat that has an extra fuel tank, fishing/std equipment on it, an auxillary etc.
@Skip - the only things I have at the stern are the main engine, auxiliary and battery. Console is in centre with 45L tank beneath it. Another 22L tank is at the bow and other things such as 10L water, anchor, safety & emergency kit and small tool box are all in bow side compartments. When I have tackle bag, cooler and rods they are all placed up front.
I think that the propeller is unsuitable for your engine-boat combination since your etec should be doing between 5500 and 6000 rpm at WOT. Also keep in mind that your 'extra' 45 l fuel tank + auxiliary engine together weigh at least as much as an average person - so when you are fishing with your father you are effectively 3 people on board rather than two.
Malvizzu, my Seabrave equipped with a 50HP flies on plane in less than 5 seconds. The setup is very similar to yours, fuel tank in the middle, water in the front, battery at the back. Sometimes I put in a 2.2hp auxiliary at the back, it does affect lightly but not significant. I can also plane the boat with 2 persons at the back. As I said earlier, with 4 large persons and alot of luggage, the boat still goes on plane very easily.
I definitely suggest to reduce your prop pitch, 17 is too much. Try 15 or possibly 13. I also suggest adding hydrofoils, the difference is massive. Last and not least, my engine is propped up on the 3rd bolt, and I am also considering lifting it up completely to try. The eTec's prop is far behind your boat by at least 1 foot, so the anti-ventilation plate should be around 1 inch higher than the bottom of your boat.
Thanks guys for all the feedback. Will talk to Petecraft about it.
This morning I was at Stuart Marine in SPB and subject came on this with another guy. They too suggested reducing prop pitch. Lifting engine was another option but which might cause drag they said. My main concern is how to get props to try out.
Today I managed to take some readings as the sea was calm early in the morning. With 2 people on board I got this reading:
Plane: 7.5 sec
WOT: 5400
Speed: 27.8 knts
Today I also noticed a 15ft Buccaneer berthed near me with a 60HP. Prop size was 11 1/8 x 13. The owner, a good friend of mine, says his boat planes easily even with 4/5 people. Does it make sense?
You're not too bad malvizzu, but you can probably be better. See if you can borrow his prop.
Does the steering pull to the right when on plane?
Quote from: ciappinu on September 12, 2016, 12:25:34 CET
You're not too bad malvizzu, but you can probably be better. See if you can borrow his prop.
Does the steering pull to the right when on plane?
Ciappinu - my steering pulls to the right and also boat leans slightly to the right...is it because of the prop rotation?
I have a Petecraft 16ft powered by Yamaha F70. great speed to fuel burn ratio, only 12.7ltrs/hr @ 20knts. WOT speed is 28knts at 5800rpm, with 70ltrs fuel and 3 ppl on board.
Torque steer from the rotation of the prop is quite normal. Ideally you want to set your anode fin that is below the anti-cavitation plate to negate that pull to the right and give you a neutral feel to the steering at cruise.
Leaning to the right you'll have to offset with the way you load the boat.
Who sells Selva outboards now that Hi Tech marine are no longer in buisness?
Quote from: ciappinu on September 12, 2016, 12:25:34 CET
You're not too bad malvizzu, but you can probably be better. See if you can borrow his prop.
Does the steering pull to the right when on plane?
No it doesn't. When I first mounted the auxiliary the boat used to pull heavily to one side but than I adjusted the anode fin and it's now much better.
Quote from: skip on September 12, 2016, 15:56:09 CET
Torque steer from the rotation of the prop is quite normal. Ideally you want to set your anode fin that is below the anti-cavitation plate to negate that pull to the right and give you a neutral feel to the steering at cruise.
Leaning to the right you'll have to offset with the way you load the boat.
Excellent idea. The boat pulls to starboard, so I need to adjust the anode fin to steer slightly to port.
Yes, it is the nature of every propelled boat to pull slightly to the angle of the prop rotation. If adjusting the anode is enough to cancel the pull, then I wouldn't bother much, although technically you will now loose a fraction of your speed since you are increasing drag. If your engine is propped too low I found that the pull to the right is stronger. I also have a feeling that a larger prop diameter will increase the pull, but I still need to confirm that by trying a smaller prop.
As regards to the rolling on one side, I found that the hydrofoils have done magic.
If I remember well you have to turn the tab to the same side that the steering is pulling.
With my old Johnson it worked perfectly...