Hi Guys,
Was just having a think about antifouling on a new boat, and went over to International's website to have a look at what they recommend. If you buy a new boat you generally want to invest in anti-osmosis protection and I believe one of the leading recommendations is GelShield 200. Trouble is you need to apply 5 coats and this stuff doesn't come cheap.
A typical 18 foot boat will require a total paint area of around 14m2 which means Qty 4 of the 2.5 litre Gelshield 200 packs. International recommend you use their two colours, green and grey and start and finish with grey, the different colours ensuring your are applying it evenly.
You can then go straight to your chosen anti-fouling, I'm looking at International Interspeed Ultra as it's a hard wearing antifouling designed for boats running higher speeds in high fouling areas.
If you don't want osmosis protection you can use Primocon, which is just over half the price of Gelshield, but then again on a new boat you want to protect your investment.
Anyone have any thoughts/experience with this?
Skip
O did mine. I had a different make done on mine but after 5 years i sand blasted it and started the process with International Marine. I am happy with the product. I even use international antifouling.
I think its a good investment on a boat. I highly recommend it.
It's surprising how all the little bits add up even on a smaller boat!! Good to know shanook, we were using Intl Micron 66 on my dads boat and overall it works very very well, it was always the outdrives that suffered.
I'm thinking of buying an outboard prop lock and then leaving the outboard out the water to avoid having to antifoul it and protect the prop as was reading on a site that's why they dont advise you leave your outboard out the water as it makes it easier to pinch the prop!
Yep props have been the main object of theft lately. Mind u my friend has two inboard engines and imagine his surprise when he started the boat let go of the mooring line and didnt move at all when he engaged the engines.... somebody had stolen his propellers during the night... crazy isnt it. Oh well. Yep better to use a prop lock it helps.
skip another drawback of keeping the motor tilted up is that the other boats when passing can go in it especialy if there isnt a good space between moored boats
That's a fair point, though then again I suppose that's what insurance is for !! With the aggressive fouling we have in Malta, I think it's a risk worth taking, though as you say very much depends on where you are moored.
Its always in the best interest to apply a a water barrier/anti osmosis treatment to your boat. I personally went for West System, a bit more expensive then Intln, but thats what I used. As for antifouling, the best I've used (and still use to this day) is Juton...and I've tried them all. One very good product on the market at the moment is that produced by Wurth. I've heard very good reviews about it, even for outdrives. I use the black colour for sies and stern. Below the waterline I use Juton.
Interesting info Gaffer. Which Jotun one are you using, the SeaQuantum?
And with the West system how many coats do you have to give it? I believe you then have to use the antifouling manufactuers primer first before the top coat. Whereas with international you can go straight from Gelshield to AF top coat.
Also wondering the best way of determining the water line. Would it be somthing as simple as putting the boat in the water with a typical resting load and then marking the water line?
Quote from: skip on April 27, 2008, 16:20:33 CET
Interesting info Gaffer. Which Jotun one are you using, the SeaQuantum?
And with the West system how many coats do you have to give it? I believe you then have to use the antifouling manufactuers primer first before the top coat. Whereas with international you can go straight from Gelshield to AF top coat.
Also wondering the best way of determining the water line. Would it be somthing as simple as putting the boat in the water with a typical resting load and then marking the water line?
The Juton I use is particular...its red!!...hmmm, I'll let you know which one I use later on.
With west system you have to apply 6 coats in the same day. You apply each coat as soon as the one applied becomes tacky. This ensures max adhiesion.
Best way to determine waterline is either by observing similar boats, or floating the boat in the water and marking out a line about 1 inch above the actual waterline
Just to update you all on costs! ouch
Gelshield 200 - Green / Grey @ E 99.11 / 2.5 litres
Interspeed Ultra - Dover White @ E 129.75 / 2.5 litres & @ E 41.30 / 750 mls
Supercleaner @ E 11.81 / 500 mls
So for an 18 foot boat you'd be looking at : Euro 580 including 2 coats anti-fouling
leave the baot in the water for a week and the waterline is done for u.
Wow Skip.. quite an expense especially when considering it's a new boat and hasn't touched the water yet! I wonder why certain stuff is not included in the price even though then, you wouldn't bet on what material/brand has been used! so in conclusion it's best to do yourself I guess. Then there are registration expenses, moorings etc., etc... I tend to agree with Shanook for the waterline and I think it would then be best to mark the line/mask with electrical tape instead of using masking tape for a job well done.
Yep expenses, expenses, expenses! It all adds up to quite alot beyond the initial purchase price. It's quite useful to bear this all in mind when looking at second hand boats and factor in that most of this has already been done for you. Although as you rightly point out you won't know what kind of job has been done and material used!
I like the suggestion of leaving the boat in the water for a week to get an idea of the waterline and reckon that's something I'm going to do.
Thanks
Hello All
Is there a local company who offers the service of applying the antifouling to boats?
I have a Bahri which must be 10years old and never spent a season in the water.
thanks
bahri if your boat is still on gel coat than its not just anti fouling that u need to do but a water proof barrier first.
Skip,
Take care when you apply the osmosis treatment directly on the gelcoat. I have reason to think that unless a water base primer is applied, the gelsield 2000 may react with the gelcoat and give you problems after.
As Shanook mentioned higher up, like him I launched the boat with the Delta rosso osmosis treatment, after a couple of years I noticed 4-5mm blisters apearing around the waterline. These eventually formed on all the underwater surface. Like Shanook, I painstacingly scraped and sanded all the way to the gelcoat (and it wasn't easy). We had an argument with the manufacturer of the treatment, but to no avail. In the end we went for the gelshield 2000 treatment aplied as you said.
Last couple of years I noticed the blisters returning, this year they are all over. It was recomanded that the 2 layers of water based primer be applied before the osmoses treatment to serve as a barier and prevent the tinners in the treatment reacting with the gelcoat.
That's as far as I know. Will see what I'm doing about it next year. This year boat in the water as is. Would be happy if anybody got some info to share on the problem.
Ramio I'm not expert by any stretch of the imagination, I spoke with International before commencing the treatment, sanded down the hull, wiped it down with their special cleaner and then commenced with the Gelshield coats.
Given your experience one possible explanation is that your hull already had osmosis in it before you started and no matter how many barrier coats you apply it's already there.
If you're going to have to restrip I would seriously try and get a professional to inspect your hull before you repeat this all over again. The West Systems document I attached with Gaffer's post about compromised water barrier details how to check and repair existing blisters etc.
Who makes the water based primer?
Nick i told ramio about the water base primer. If I am right I started by applying a water base treatment before the gelshield.
I Stand to be corrected as I did this about 4 years ago. Just a thought, it might have been a water base antifoulfing not to react with the gelshield. As i said I stand to be corrected. But the guys at internationa know best what can be done to protect the boat.
What do you reckon about the remote possibily of their already having been osmosis/small water blisters before Ramio started.
Might be a good question to ask International http://www.yachtpaint.com/UK/feedback/feedback.asp
I used their feedback form and put the enquiry as Technical Enquiry and got very helpful answers from Richard Jerram the UK technical manager.
I think in Ramio's case after removing all existing paints, primers and gelshield (recommend soda blasting), and then after ensuring the hull is thoroughly washed and dried, he will need to treat any existing osmosis by applying Gelshield plus first after having totally removed the gelcoat in the affected areas.
Have a look at these:
http://www.yachtpaint.com/UK/boat_painting_guide/pdf/fibreglass/treat.pdf
http://www.yachtpaint.com/UK/boat_painting_guide/pdf/fibreglass/protect.pdf
Gelshield Plus Product Info
https://secure.international-coatings.com/pds/yacht/GB_ISO_M_5000292.htm
They also now have Epiglass HT9000 which seems to be Epoxy Glass that can be applied directly to the gelcoat as further protection before Gelshield 200
Quote from: shanook on April 14, 2009, 17:22:19 CET
bahri if your boat is still on gel coat than its not just anti fouling that u need to do but a water proof barrier first.
Yes thanks for that.
I will need to apply the waterproofing gel before the antifouling.
Unfortunately I am not able to perform all this myself dues due to physical constraints (!) - are you aware of a company who offers this service?
thanks .
I think various boatyards will do it for sure. You could try Charlie at Tecnomarine 21 570250
Skip,
I don't think its an osmosis problem from the start, as the blisters mainly are from on top of the gelcoat. Where the gelcoat came off is because of a different problem. I think I have a defective gelcoat layer. This mainly to problematic materials that were about during the time of my boat being manufactured. I think gelcoat is too brittle as hairlines are visible on all areas. This doesn't cover the problem why the blisters showed from the 1st year. to that point only the osmosis treatment blistered up. Apart from that, the water content and foul smell usualliy present inside the blister with osmosis were not present. The blisters I have are dry even when boat had just come out of the water.
To me this represents build up of presure by some gas, produced with a chemical reaction. The osmosis treatment is doing its job as under it is all dry.
Will have to seek advise on this. Anyway this has to be treated next year, I'm not ruining this year's fishing...hell with the boat.
Ramio is right i think either the material was defective or else the first treatment applied to the boat caused a reaction making the gelcoat brittle. Its not an osmosis matter as none of the telltale signs are present. there are hairline cracks elsewhere so the probability is that the material was defective in the first place. its nothing that cannot be set right its a hussle to have to do it thats all....grrrrrrrrr
Interesting update. Perhaps would warrant removing the gelcoat from the bottom and rebuilding it up with something like Gelshield Plus and any fillers as required.
The removal would be well suited to Sandblasting as you would want to remove the gelcoast especially if you feel it might be compromised.
Was thinking of applying layers of west system directly to hull once the gelcoat is removed. But will have to seek more advise first.
Problem is next year I will be short of both time and money, as am planing to move into the new apartment that is under way.So!!!!!!!
Quote from: skip on April 14, 2009, 22:59:02 CET
I think various boatyards will do it for sure. You could try Charlie at Tecnomarine 21 570250
cheers ... will do.
One thing to add, no matter who it is/which yard all supervise such works. I don't like leaving things especially below the water line to someone without me being around.
bahri your boat is 14feet no! so why dont u do it urself if u are able to?
Bahri kont ghamilt id dghajsa li kelli jien xejn ta barra min hawn naqra pacezja.
ahsel sew il qieh, minbaghad xkatla hafifa hafna b xi sandpaper 400 (qiesek qed ixxejjer)
msaghha w tija tlett passati osmosis prevention skond l instructions (twinpacK) w wara 2 antifouling. jien nuza l attiva (minghand charlie ta riniker tecnomarine) w sibta tajba .kien qalli bija siehbi.
ma nafx kont qed naqta qalbi ghax siehbi qalli tghidx kemm hu difficli taghmel il kolla qabel l-antifouling!
Kolla ?????? xkolla hibahri?