Thanks for all your patience and honest advice Nick (Both online and offline). Yesterday I went to RLT to have a look at the northstar 190 with the Etec 90 and it is a nice boat but tends to go over my budget which is Lm10,000. Without a trailer and cover we're already up to Lm10,500. There were also a couple of extras eg. a double seat instead of pedestal seats that have not yet been confirmed. Besides these then one has to look into the electronic gadgets etc. In my opinion it will easily take you in the Lm12K region which is too much.
I've also been to tar-Ratal boats which seem to be built very sturdily and in fact the minimum outboard they recommended for their 18 footer was a 150hp. When considering the size of this engine, the price will also easily shoot up to the Lm12K region.
Today I went to see the Buccaneer boats which also seem to have quite a good finishing and are built sturdily (not as much as tar-Ratal, those are impressive!) They seem to be good value for money but their only "drawback" was that it's either a 16.5ft or a 20ft with nothing in between. Equipped with a Yamaha 4 stroke this boat with trailer will work out in the region of Lm9000 with minimal extras. One must therefore not forget to add the prices of certain items eg. petrol tank, shower etc. however, I think it will still end up priced very competitively.
The last place I went today were at Hitec Marine and I must say, the staff are the best I came across so far as besides making you feel very welcome, they take all their time showing you through their different options and explaining every detail. The boat that caught my eye here was the Marinello Fisherman 19 which seems to be built quite nice with a centre console (unlike the other Marinellos). the only drawback I could find so far was the lack of storage space but, from all I've seen so far, when comparing value for money, it seems to be the best deal and I also got a good price for their demo model. I did my best to resist giving a deposit as before I take a decision I also need to visit Kaptan since they are also offering an 18ft centre console.
Hi Benri, thanks for keeping us posted. Couldn't find the Fisherman 19 on Marinello's site which was strange so I'm guessing they haven't updated their website yet http://www.cantieremarinello.com/modelli.html
Came across this on Youtube
The drawbacks I'm seeing are the rear bench seat access isn't full width so if you plan on leaving and locking your rods on board you won't be able to get them in. And down the sides at the bow as you mentioned there seems to be a lack of storage space.
Dry weight is 650kgs so I would say you're looking at a minimum of 100hp but probably ideally 115hp. Whilst Hi-Tec push the Yamaha engines and their four stroke range are considered very good I would also look at the Suzuki Four Strokes as a very serious power contender.
Definately check out the Kaptan boats before making your final decision, you did good to hold back with the deposit.
Does the Fisherman 19 have an inbuilt fuel tank? Also factor in two batteries rather than one and make sure they dont get mounted near the fuel tanks if you're going to do external plastic tanks.
The fuel tank isn't inbuilt on the fisherman 19 and I'll make sure to take your advice and get 2 batteries away from the petrol tanks.
Hi-Tec Marine are insisting that the Marinello 19 does not need anti-osmosis treatment due to some gelcoat additive (if I correctly understood the reason). Is this possible?
It's possible, I believe Shanook had some treatment during the construction of his boat, so drop him a line. Perhaps you won't need to put 5 coats, but I would drop International makers of Gelshield an email http://www.yachtpaint.com/UK/general/contact_us.asp
Get their opinion as I'm sure they know about these additives.
benri i would wait maybe till january to order a boat. during this time maybe you will find a second hand boat that is good for you. if you dont find one than you go and order. you can save a lot of money when buying a second-hand boat. always tke with you someone who knows about engines.
hi Benri read with interest all the posts and one always learns something. I agree with skip, emic and busumark. DONT RUSH. make your homework see the pros and cons off all options offered to you then see what you want from your boat. u had a boat so mostly u know what u want different from what u had. dont let sparkle and good looks override the other options. When you are on a boat 15 miles out and force 5 hitting your boat head on, u want to know that the boat can take it.
If u want to go fishing there are quite a few who u can go with.
thanks for all your opinions mates.... They're much appreciated.. I hope I won't rush at least I'm trying my best not to but, since when I sold my boat, would you believe me if I say it's like I lost a part of me even if I had nothing special!! Last weekend I was walking around the house like a mad guy knowing that my boat was no longer at me and thinking of what I'm going to do. The ideal would have been to sell at the end of summer but then I knew it would be more difficult to sell at that stage.
To be honest however I've ruled out second hand for my next boat. I had very bad experiences with both 2nd hand cars and also boats that nowadays I've decided that if I can afford I'll go for new and if I cannot I'll wait. It's true that some people get good bargains sometimes but I won't risk again. I've also decided to go for the type of boat I like i.e. an open boat that would be good for fishing and also for a family outing and not settle for anything else like I had done with the previous.
Please also believe me guys that this is a good time to shop! I never thought that it would be so. I'm trying to play calm with suppliers and would you believe that 3 of them phoned me back today offering better deals! Apparently, they want to get rid of their stock the same way I wanted to get rid of mine. So, it seems to be working both ways!
You're in the bargaining seat then Bryan, so make it count :P
Let us know when you go down to Kaptan and also would be great if you could take some pictures or if he has some photo/brochure (even a paper) we put it up here as there's not much info on Kaptan's boats and nothing online.
Yes Skip, It's unbelievable how many showers, electrics and accessories including installation can pop up f.o.c.! I will do my best to visit them tomorrow with a friend of mine. On another note, do you think a 100hp is adequate for a 19 footer weighing 650kg. In my opinion it should be but I'd like your views too.
Hello Benri,
Currently every dealer is complaining that they are not selling cars, outboards , engines and boats cause fuel costs are getting high and this reflect also world wide. I work in the automotive industry and I know what i'm saying. I fully agree with all my friends cause It happened to me as well and I always used to rush when I've wanted to buy something but now I'm learning at last :).
First write all down all extras that you wish on your boat and mark the costs of them cause when I bought my boat I was happy with it but didn't knew the costs of all the extras and fuel costs that I had to buy after. so first see what you need and what dimentions you're after and try to visit all local dealers and manufacturers before you put a deposit on something. and as Shanook says keep in mind that out there the weather changes without notice and you need to be safe on your way back home.
good luck
Personally I would say 100hp with a decent loading of fuel and water plus people is on the low side for a 19 footer. I would rather a 115hp as a minimum especially if its a four stroke, maybe even a 140 depending on the price jump.
4 strokes like to run fuel effecient in the mid-range whereas a direct injection engine like mine is happy between 4000-5000rpm so quite high (WOT is 5850rpm). So with that in mind with a 4 stroke as you will be running less revs to keep fuel burn efficient you need more horsepower.
An ETEC 115hp would push a 19 happily with the right prop but going to a four stroke I would look at the Suzuki 140hp and try and bargain price a bit in light of what Fishfinder stated.
Take a look again at how my weight figures added up to get an idea of total weight
the hull can make a difference whether a 100hp is good but apart from that i would rather go for 140hp as u dont want to have a full throttle all the time. your three quarters gas is what u should consider as full gas at least thats the way i always reasoned.
i wouldnt but an open boat benri you are always going to get wet if the sea is a bit rough or a bit windy. it doesnt matter how much the boat is good for the sea. you have to decide if you are going to make an inboard or an outboard as an engine
Hi Busumark. To be honest I prefer open boats as even with the family and apart from fishing I find them better. They have a disadvantage in rough seas over cabin boats but it's also a matter of taste. If I wanted a cabin, I would have had an easy solution by buying Shanook's boat as I think it's the only second hand I would buy. Based on your suggestions guys, I'll try and squeeze in the Suzuki 140hp - Now it's either I get sent to..... or we'll see! I've been on a handful of sales/purchasing courses and I'm using my best tactics. Will keep you posted.
so make sure that the one u buy gives u as much a dry ride as possible and the only way to try that out is not by sales talk but by trial. Ask the supplier to test out a boat in at least force 3 that way u will know what to expect. No use trying out a boat after u ave bought it.
Hi ppl... I seem to have made up my mind and went for the Marinello 19 powered by a 4 stroke Suzuki 140hp. Thanks for all your help and suggestions mates - they were of great help especially with the motor. i have an approx. 15 day wait for the motor and might be in time to try it for some lampuki this season. The people at Hi-Tec really gave me a fair deal which I couldn't refuse further and I liked the boat the minute I saw it. Will post some pictues when it eventually arrives.
Bryan, I think you made a very very good choice with the engine. You will have plenty of power from the Suzuki-4 which will be of particular benefit when you want to load up your family and friends and go out for the day, the boat will run very happily.
With less people like 3-4 fishing you should have a very nice high cruise speed, I reckon of around at least 25 knots most likely depending how you set yourself up prop wise.
Did you end up going to see the Kaptan's or were you lured by the production boat and finish? :P
Not sure what extra equipment you already have/what you're planning to get, but dont' forget that auxiliary (you may as well get a Suzuki as well), and just to let you know the Lowrance 527 iGPS head unit that I have, which is a GPS, Chartplotter and Fishfinder all in one plus an intelligent display terminal can take a engine interface cable to your Suzuki engine, which will display many parameters on the screen like rpm, water temp, oil temp, and all sorts, not sure if it displays fuel consumption as well, but if not you can connect an EP-60R fuel flow meter like I have which is invaluable so you know the best rpm to run at for your load and exactly how much fuel you are using, have used, remaining etc. If you like I can show it to you on the boat.
Ask Danny if there's any chance of having a fixed fuel tank mounted where it would be normally fitted by the factory?? Otherwise I think you would be restricted to 2 x 50 litre tanks.
Shame you're not coming to the BBQ we could have had a chat. Prosit
Yes I think I did choose the right engine and I was actually lured by the production boat and finish! You guessed right!
At the moment these sre the accessories that will be supplied with the boat
Bimini Top
Trailer
Boat cover
Fuel tank, gauge, deck filler & breather
Transom shower system
Auxiliary Engine Bracket (I have an aux. engine which I will try out but might have to buy a larger one if it's not enough - I have an Enduro 8HP)
12V Sockets
Extra battery, battery box and change over switch
Clarion Stereo, s/p fascia & speakers
Bilge pump
Navionics VHF base set (with DSC etc.), & Antenna
I left the GPS and fishfinder out for this season and will be using the handheld unit. I'll definately talk to you Skip for the Lowrance 527 as I wanted something like that. It could be that I can make it to the BBQ actually as we were supposed to have someone from abroad at the office but I was just informed that he's actually not coming now as he missed the flight :-)
Thanks for the update Bryan.
Bimini Top (Make sure the supports are stainless steel or HEAVY DUTY alumiunium and that it's well supported and not flimsy like mine!)
What size fuel tank are you installing??
Hi Skip. We're not yet sure of the size of the petrol tank as we're trying to get the biggest possible that fits in the space.
The bimini top is the original from marinello and to be honest I don't have a clue whether the aluminium is heavy duty but i'll check it out. I very much doubt it's stainless steel.
Marinello have a really stainless steel radar arch that fits on their boat. Apparently the same canopy fits with this so it can be retrofitted at a later stage.
Are you putting the tank under the floor in the center?
Should be putting the tank at the rear.
How come you're putting it in the rear of the boat? Aside from taking up precious storage space you'll be adding a significant amount of weight to the back of the boat, especially as the 140hp 4 stroke isn't at all light!
I advise you to err on the side of caution Benri and not make the same mistake that I did. Some weight in the back is good but I reckon you're going to have far too much. Can you not just create a hatch in the floor where the built in factory tank would go, or do you not have the room anymore. I can understand if you don't as this is the case on my boat, it's either done during construction or you can't do it.
Personally I would much rather do something like:
Twin 25 litre tank in the bow, one on the port and one on the starboard side in those small storage areas you have.
And then a 50 litre tank in the rear or slightly bigger if you can get it. At least in this way you're balancing the boat out better still retaining the capacity.
Also as I mentioned on the phone, avoid locating the batteries near the fuel tanks. Center console is an excellent place unless you're planning on putting a fridge in there which some people do.
i'll phone Danny and check if it the petrol tank can be fitted in the place where they fit the one from the factory. I'm going to put the batteries under the centre seat.
Noticed on the Marinello that they have a feed pipe that comes from somewhere. Is that feed pipe coming from the center console or coming from the bilge area? Remember that where possible you want to avoid longer cables runs, bearing in mind that you will need a feed from the battery switch located near the battery up to a bus bar in the center console to feed those various switches and pieces of equipment.
Hi Nick. this morning I woke up eager to confirm the weights of the Suzuki 140Hp and the 115. The 140 is actually 3kg lighter!
Had a look too this morning! Tres bizarre! Wonder why a 115 is a few kgs heavier than a 140, doesnt make much sense but there you go!
I told you that they have everything the same exept for the Bore that's a little bit bigger and so the engine is lighter. :)
Yesterday morning Shisha was finally launched! It's a Marinello Fisherman 19 powered by a Suzuki DF140. The ride of the boat is much better than I expected it to be and the balancing is very good too. I was very reluctant to have the fuel tank, shower tank at the rear as I was afraid it would be very heavy but after sending emails to Marinello they put my mind at rest and told me the hull was designed that way... and I must say they were right! With the tanks full of fuel and water and three people on the very rear seat and one at centre console, with the power of the Suzuki 140 the boat is planed without any extra effort... unbelievable! Thanks to all of you who suggested this engine as believe me - it's marvellous. And apart from the strength, compared to a 2 stroke it's damn economical! Yesterday I went from Kalkara to St. Paul's Bay, off to Gozo, round Comino and back to St Pauls Bay together with 7 hours trolling today and all I used was 35 Lts. The hull is also very dry due to the high freeboard and going from Kalkara to St Pauls Bay in Force 4 was no problem which was a great relief for me after being used to the fletcher!
there were unfortunately also the what I call "made in Malta" mishaps! During the test run, the throttle came off only to discover that they forgot to put the centre bolt in the remote! Thank God we were not close to shore and in time to pull the kill switch.. (The excuse was that I rushed them!). Dominic came down to Kalkara and did it in no time!
The other mishaps are that the canopy is really flimsy, the auxilliary bracket is not installed (they told me I don't need one!!!!), and the bloody boat cover is at least 8 inches short at beam! I'll phone up Daniel at Hi-tec on Monday morning and see what could be done!
But all in all, I'm really happy with the hull and engine configuration. Now during winter it's maybe up to Skip to help me getting it rigged! Now I have the equipment and all I need are the fish :-)
Benri,
Glad to hear you are in the water and happy with your set up. 35Litres for that combined trip is very impressive especially with the engine being new. Can you give us some idea of what speed/rpm you were running when cruising? Also at what rpm do you troll to get approx what speed.
Mr. Suzuki Charlot will be very happy :)
I definately think you went down the right route with that extra power on the boat and good to hear that even with the two tanks at the rear and people you have no distribution issues. Hopefully when you add the weight of the bracket and the aux engine you will still be good.
Nice to know aye you can be out in a Force 4 and still feel at ease :)
Well done benri now dont be nasty and come rushing by me to rock me from sise to side eh....... Very impressive fuel economy, these new engines are making miracles.....
Now u need to catch the first fish and that way u would have baptised it. So if u were happy in force 4 u now know the trick of catching lampuki thats the time to go on the fads as u will be alone.
Hello Benri,
I knew you would be happy with that Suzuki but I have to admit that you've impressed me as well by using only 35ltrs all that way including 7hrs trolling.
I wish you all the best and I hope that it will bring you luck and nice fish.
10hrs more and the running in is ready but I hope that Domnic told you not to exceed 4000RPM before the first service.
good luck ;D
Thanks to all. Yes he told me Fishfinder... But I read the manual and you can speed up for a short time to get the boat on a plane, etc. and it also says that you can use full throttle for up to 5 mins (after 2 hours)
I was mostly between 3700-4000 revs while cruising but I'm not sure of the revs while trolling. I didn't record the speed though as I don't have a GPS installed yet. Hopefully on Monday I'll use the handheld and give you more accurate information. What is really impressive is the slow running! People told me before I bought it that it would be excellent for trolling but believe me, you have to try it to get the feeling.
Now all we need is the fish but until next monday I'll have to keep the wife and kids happy in gozo and comino (they deserve it) and shoot off for lampuki on Tuesday!
benri now when you catch a fish bring it in the boat and dont worry if you dirty the boat. the most important thing is that it doesnt escape. you can clean afterwards. what do you think shanook he can take me with him i wont dirty his boat
yes i can vouch for Busu he keeps the boat very clean especially when he is cutting bait like klamari and tumbrell. And the bait box it has a particular aroma when he opens it ah tiftahlek l'aptit.
No busu is very practical he does what has to be done at the right time.
I will give u a call Tuesday I might go for a bit of tal Qieh serran, pagell, pagri etc. so not far off. Namlu naqra aljotta
Hi Benri,
Just a couple of questions:
Max Speed?
Cruising Speed/revs?
Minimum speed?
Can we see a couple of pics of your baby?
Tight lines
Rob
Hi rob
Re. Max. speed - I never managed to measure yet as my GPS is a small handheld unit and the few times I try full throttle it always ends up flying to the end of the boat while everbody is holding tight reluctant to fetch it!!! I don't want a permanent fix for it as hopefullly for next season I'll get a good fixed unit.
The boat cruises comfortably on a plane at around 17-18 knots. At 4000 rpm she's cruising at 21 knots and for trolling at 1800 rpm she's between 5.5-6 knots.
I haven't taken any pics as yet but should eventually take a couple and post them.
Brian, I have the perfect answer to the picture problem that I have as well! We go out as two boats with a video camera and a digi camera and use one boat as a chase boat taking pictures and then swap over. I'm sure I can convince my gf as she's good with camera's if you're interested!
Whatever GPS head unit you opt for, make sure it has NMEA 2000 functionality and that you can get (if interested) the necessary harness to interface with your engine.
The Lowrance I have (527C iGPS) has the option to buy a Suzuki engine interface kit as well as adding fuel flow meters etc, but with the interface cable which goes directly into the ECU it displays parameters such as engine hours, lt/per hour, k/m per litre, fuel remaining, cylinder temp plus heaps more.
Plus it will display fuel flow at idle which most aftermarket inline fuel flow sensors don't manage as they only go down to around 3 litres per hour.
The Suzuki SMIS (Suzuki Modular Instrument System Layout) is in fact made by Lowrance for Suzuki and is essentially a NMEA 2000 network with some intelligent digital multi function guages.
Lowrance seem to be at the head of the game with NMEA 2000, and especially interfacing with engines, Suzuki etc, so food for thought.
We should take the "photo session" but to be honest after having a look at the forecast this morning, I'm thinking of getting it up on Saturday... what do you think?
Yes, I think Lowrance is the way to go. Did you get yours locally and what type of transducer does it have? Is it complicated to install?
Bought all my electronics (except for the VHF) from West Marine, and was lucky to find a deal with the Lowrance. The transducer it came with in the kit is a transom mount dual frequency skimmer as I did not want to drill the bottom of the boat.
Not really complicated to install, nice winter projects :)
The weather is not going to be on our side for the next few weeks which is a shame as officially I need to take my boat out of the water before 30 Sept.
Thanks for the info Benri. Will it go below 1800rpm, or is that the minimum trolling speed?
Great info re NMEA2000 skip. It is ideal to keep such parameters at the touch of a screen to monitor the most economical speeds of the engine.
Rob
Yes, it goes well below 1800rpm. You an practically start from stationary (300-400rpm I think) upwards.
Hi Rob, yep you'd be surprised how just touching the throttle for a 50/100 rpm change can make one hell of a difference in terms of fuel flow/mpg. Initially I was focusing on fuel flow but really that should just be a guide because the most important figure if your nmpg or nmpl.
I've found with the current prop I'm running I can average around 1.25 nmpl (nautical miles per litre) which equates to 5.68nm per gallon (UK) or 4.73nm per gallon (US). I can get that level of economy at 4000rpm for around 19 knots or 5000rpm for around 24-25knots which effectively means I have a slow cruise for slightly rougher weather and a fast cruise for calm weather, at either speed for the same distance travelled I will use an identical amount of fuel, even though the flow rate is higher at 5000rpm, as I'm going faster I travel for less time.
With two people and a more aggressive pitched prop I can get 1.4nmpl at 4000rpm but then I suffer from bad acceleration (holeshot), higher min planing speed, but obviously a higher top speed.
Without this reference I would be totally lost in terms of always trying to run at the most efficient throttle settings, even to an extent using it as a reference when trimming the engine trying to optimise speed/ride and fuel effeciency. Probably a few years ago I wouldnt have cared but with the price of fuel I'm paying more attention to these things.
Quote from: benri on September 11, 2008, 10:08:52 CET
Yes, it goes well below 1800rpm. You an practically start from stationary (300-400rpm I think) upwards.
Do you know what pitch prop they ended up putting on the boat? 3 blade/4, Aluminium/Stainless?
it's a 3 blade aluminium - if I'm not mistaken 19 pitch. Yesterday at one time it worried me a bit cause on two occasions it sort of slipped and left a hole in the water before accelerating... After that I began to think on whether pitching, etc. is right as I don't really understand in this area.
What you're describing is prop slip, usually caused by cavitation, although it can sometimes be caused by a loose hub when the prop isn't tightened down enough.
A prop shouldn't cavitate under normal operation, especially if you are acclerating up on to the plane, but it can occur at speed when you have the engine trimmed up for optimum performance and you come off the top of a wave, causing the prop to slip as it comes out the water, or during tight turns.
If they have mounted your engine quite high, which alot of installers like to do as it gives higher speeds etc then it could be that your prop is running quite close to the surface and therefore is more prone to break the surface as your traverse over a swell. The solution to that is to switch to a four bladed prop which is happier running close to the surface, but before doing that you need to be sure what's going on and why.
You do lose some top end speed with a 4 blader, but get a better holeshot (accleration) and usually a more efficient mid-range cruise.
I am so interestd in the minimum speeds bacause of live bait trolling. Since I hope to have a boat in the next few months I'd like to know whether it is possible to troll close to 1knot with the main engine, or would one need and auxiliary for such use.
My fishing mate can troll with the main motor (he has a tohatsu DI) at low speeds, minimum 1.2knots, but he has to use bucket tied to the back of the boat. Also, he can acheive such low speeds because the boats is underpowered, acheiving a max speed of 23 knots.
Rob
Trolling at one kts with a "big" motor you are not going to do him any good......for a 1-2 kts speed you will be better off with a small auxiliary.
I think that this appies mostly to large (100hp+) 2 stroke motors. I am quite sure that the 4 stroke motors can take slow trolling for extended periods without any particular problems.
I stand to be corrected.
Rob
I think even big 4 strokes should be fine, I never had issues with a Mercruiser 5.7L TBI V8, I just used to keep an eye on the plugs over winter which maybe fouled a tad more than normal use.
Std carb two strokes definately don't like it at all, and well even my Tohatsu 90 Direct Injection doesn't seem too happy, see my update on the post 2 strokes vs 4 strokes for trolling.
My fishing mate has a 50hp Tohatsu DI and it never gave any problems while trolling at the slowest of speeds.
Rob