This is the decision that was taken:
Any discussion started in English must be answered in English, any answers in Maltese will be flagged giving users a chance to edit them and then they will be removed. (Reference to local fish names or technical names in Maltese will be allowed)
Please see Page 2 for an update http://maltafishingforum.com/talk/index.php?topic=966.msg10906#msg10906
Any thread started in Maltese can continue in Maltese or English, although take note that the author prefers to express himself and read answers in Maltese (Answers in English may well be ignored/not understood.)
If you would like to contribute, but cannot reply in Maltese please refer to the post on Page 2 http://maltafishingforum.com/talk/index.php?topic=966.msg10906#msg10906
As it doesn't seem to be clear to everyone, I want to clarify and make the following very clear, as some forum members don't agree, but a decision has been taken.
For the last three years the forum has been 99.9% in English and we attracted a large number of members, whereas lately it has switched to mostly Maltese. Whilst this is the Malta Fishing Forum it is NOT the Maltese Fishing Forum, both English and Maltese are joint languages.
As I have already mentioned several times the site attracts around 7000 visitors a month and the majority are not Maltese. If we lose this traffic because all the content is in Maltese, we lose our strength with potential sponsors etc.
Whilst I thank those for their concerns, in this instance I am sorry but it's time to respect the decision that was taken. There are now many posts that are in Maltese where people who write only in Maltese can surely contribute to those without any problems.
Everyone now has six days left to ammend recent posts that are in the wrong place before they will be removed.
Regards,
Skip
Just to add to this in an effort to make it easier for everyone. Only posts made as from 09:00 today 17th Sept need to be ammended into English if they are in a topic that was stared in English, like Imsell, My Catches, More illegal net fishing etc.
You have all been more than fairly warned so please don't get upset when we start checking and removing the posts that are in breach next Wednesday.
You can disregard this, thanks to our volunteers who offered to help
Skip, is it possible to shade the titles in colour in order to realize in which language it was started cause sometimes there's alot of pages and if someone replies by mistake in another language it comes automatically to reply in the last language.
thanks
Charlot
good idea fishfinder
Yes,it will help a lot!!!!
I just tried and it seems that unfortunately not, though I agree it would make things easier it doesn't appear to be a functionality that is offered.
That is why I decided to change things only from posts made from yesterday 09:00 onwards so that one doesn't have to go back so far, even though the annoucement was displayed on the main entrance to the site for several weeks for everyone to see. Just go to the first page, see the first post and then you're set.
What's a shame is that even after all this, newsletter, this topic, people are still even today continuing to post as they wish. I say a shame because an answer from someone is a contribution so I won't like removing them.
Correct me skip if I'm wrong, but the heading/ title of the topic or tread, isn't it in the same language as the first opening post? So the original language of every post having the same tread-title can be identified, no?
This is becoming a little bit silly!
A lot of people contribute in maltese english or whatever! The most important thing is that we offer foreigners and english speaking visitors or members the help available.
And we definitely do on this forum. Some people here even offer free fishing trips to foreign visitors and visitors surely know how kind are the maltese people.
I suggest we leave everything as it is or else we will lose a lot of important cotributors. Else one should consider reserving some forum space in which only english language is used. This section should be monitored regularly and in case any maltese language is being used the writer/ contributor should be notified.
There is also the possibility of Private messages so any foreigners who need more info can always mssg any english speaking guys in case of any queries!
Placebo, what's silly is that people can't respect rules once they are introduced and enforced.
Frankly I am sick and tired of people challenging decisions taken. Go on medfish or other forums and see what happens if you say one thing out of line in a post, you get an instant ban. I created this forum and I know what I wanted to create when I did it. I don't expect people to be telling me how it should be because it's called the Malta Fishing Forum or any crap like that. If they don't like it they can move on, that's their choice.Frankly I've spent hours bending over backwards to accomodate people's requests, do this, do that, can we have this, can we have that. We have 21 premium members who have contributed out of 576, that's only 3.6%, and the majority of those who complain and have a problem with things, have not contributed that much, and are new members with a low post count.
No one has said you can't create a new topic in Maltese nor restricted the number of new topics that can be created in Maltese, in that respect it's a free for all whether it's English or Maltese.
But as Ramio has pointed out the title/heading of the first post is usually a pretty good indicator.
In your case Placebo I have noticed that you always go out of your way to help foreigners with requests for info on shore fishing etc and that you regularily invite them to go out fishing with you, and that is very commendable.
QuoteI suggest we leave everything as it is or else we will lose a lot of important cotributors. Else one should consider reserving some forum space in which only english language is used. This section should be monitored regularly and in case any maltese language is being used the writer/ contributor should be notified.
Why should we be losing alot of important contributors???????????? I really don't think people are understanding and yet it's so simple.
Post Started in English - Reply in English
Post Started in Maltese - Reply in Maltese/
English, but Maltese is preferred by the topic started. If you reply in English please request a translation as per http://maltafishingforum.com/talk/index.php?topic=966.msg10906#msg10906
I've offered to create a reserved space for Maltese only boards but this was rejected, I certainly am not going to do it the other way around.
Why are we Maltese (and as I am half Maltese I feel I can say that) always so narrow minded, there is a big wide world outside of Malta. I created The Malta Fishing Forum to unite people who live and fish in Malta, those who want to come here to fish from overseas and those who have a general interest in fishing in other countries who come and read to see what we're doing. I place equal importance on all three areas.
In closing, if people feel so hard done by this, then thank you very much for all your contributions and the forum can die a natural death, staying as is with no further posts. The choice of whether you post collectively belongs to you all, but the running and direction of the forum does NOT
I created The Malta Fishing Forum to unite people who live and fish in Malta, those who want to come here to fish from overseas and those who have a general interest in fishing in other countries who come and read to see what we're doing. I place equal importance on all three areas.
I agree 100% with this. Even I understand that for some is hard to write in english (as you see even my english is very poor) but here we get a lot of visitors from outside this island and its really inportant. Sometimes I do some reserch from other forums where there is a french and even greek forums but when I open them and see that there i no english languge, I close the web immidatly. Sure there will be information but it s too hard for me to try to undersand the info.
As for some kind of fishing methodes there are words that only in maltese can say them and its good to leave them like that, but lets every one make his part.
as we had mentioned earlier if a word is used in an other language it does not matter as long as the post and thread continue in the original languasge it started. if any one wants to voulonteer to translate the posts please let us know
"In closing, if people feel so hard done by this, then thank you very much for all your contributions and the forum can die a natural death " Are you saying that you want the forum running on English language and if not " The Forum Can Die A Natural Death "
In my opinion it makes no difference to me i understand both english and maltese, so realy do as you like just not chinese hihi.
Guys, no one is telling you to quit the forum. But there are some basic rules that have to be followed. If a thread is started in Maltese, then we can all continue to contribute in either maltese or english. However, if a thread is started in English, then please, continue to post in English. We must provide some continuity here. As skip mentioned, the MFF gets on avarage 7000 visitors each month, a portion of those are foreigners, who most probably are potential tourists checking out fishing in Malta. I follow each thread and post here, and can personally vouch for everyone that when a foreigner asks for some advice, even those members who usually post in maltese are always ready to help, and answer any query in english. So guys, its not that difficult to stick to some common ground rules here.
Perla165 and Maxxat both of you are not understanding me. No one is saying you cannot post in Maltese within the forum, nor am I saying I only want posts to be in English.
If someone asks a question in Maltese, you can answer in both languages but Maltese is clearly preferred by the person who started the question.
For example topic
'Sajd ta bil-lejl mill-Art' is a very popular topic all in Maltese, read 1244 times with several pages of replies in Maltese. It's a topic that started in Maltese and has continued in Maltese, and that's no problem at all.
What I'm saying is that if I or anyone else starts a question in English, reply in English only.
This topic
'More illegal net fishing' was started in English, but half way down Perla you switched to Maltese and then it became a mix of mostly Maltese with some English. This is where I am saying this cannot go on, it should have stayed in English. From this post onwards (done by Arti2) http://maltafishingforum.com/talk/index.php?topic=954.msg10364#msg10364 (eg. from 17th after 9am) you will have to edit your answers into English by mid next week or they will be removed.
Nowhere am I saying that if you prefer to read/write in Maltese you are not welcome in the forum, quite the opposite. In fact it is very important to have a mix of interesting posts in both Maltese and English as this attracts the greatest audience all around to everyone's benefit.
QuoteIn closing, if people feel so hard done by this, then thank you very much for all your contributions and the forum can die a natural death, staying as is with no further posts.
What I am saying is that if people feel they no longer want to come here with the enforcement of this rule because they feel its unfair, or too much of a hassle to edit their recent posts; that's not something I can control. If everyone decides this is unfair or they dont like it so they stop coming and posting, that is what I mean 'the forum will die a natural death'. No new content will mean people won't come back, so the forum will become what they call a dead forum.
Do you understand now? And as SimonG said if anyone wants to volunteer their translation services and spend some hours savings their friends from having to edit the posts that are in the wrong place, please let us know!
I will ask SimonG or someone to translate the above into Maltese as I realise that it might not be clear to our Maltese only speaking members which maybe will help to better explain the situation as I did not think of this before.
Ok skip :/ sorry for any "trouble " or something coust by me . I will try to coperate. Notice for every one as "member" do the topics in Maltese hehe :P. Thanks
HI guys,To have somone just translating everything is asking too much. My idea is to have somone asigned to an english posted topic and translate those posts that cannot be posted in the original language. As I see it when a topic is started in english, usually all reply back in same language. So really there isn't much to translate. I havn't a lot of free time, but half an hour to go trough the new posts, I always find. Just give me a thread, and I'll take care to translate any post from anyone who "REALLY" finds it difficult to write in engish. All they need to do is ask at the end of their maltese answer for me (or somone else) to translate. Any other volontiers ??
As experience shows in the past, most of us already respected the original language, even when the rules weren't yet introduced. In the heat of the arguments and with the entusiasm, we tend to deviate without knowing. All we need is to correct and continue. So many members have contributed with their teaching, and we all learned.
Its fantastic to see so many people from all over the world showing interest in our little island, should make us all proud. So just a bit of respect for them won't hurt. Keep the forum alive guys, We are all doing a good job.
I agree with you ramio. I am willing to help out aswell but then people shoud not take us forgranted and post only in maltese.
Although i prefer posting in maltese, i am able to write well in english aswell.
well said, ramio, thank you.
mike.d.
this shoudn t be pointing hands to any member, but lets help each other. Here I spend a lot of time, and sometimes i give places to guys I never meet them, some of them they just meet me up and ask me if Im one from the forum cos they see a pic from the catches. I dont care to giv eplaces to memebers from this forum as I know from their posts what type of fishermen they are.
I go spearfishing as for a hobby and take guys with me so that they can learn from what I know and I do the same from them. Thanks to this forum we meet and give our dayly catch due to this forum.
At the moment arti2 is catching octopus and he shows them without regrets, im doing seabreams and do the same, when there was bcudas i done the same.... and finaly who goes good? every one in this forum, even shops cos we buy staff from them. All these problems had arased from a small topic, who wantsa to do it in english and who wants to do it in maltese. Even I used to write in maltes but as from I noticed that Nick and Benri where getting out from the topics, I tried to write my replies in english. Infact one day I had a pm from Benri thanking me cos I asked someone to reply in english where possible (where they doesn t took care for what I asked) couldn t say noting cos im just a memeber like every one here, but personally where I spend a lot of hrs trying to help i looked at it in a wrong way
Pls let help each other and every one make his effort
i offer help if u like
Guys thanks for your offers. Hopefully most can manage to translate their own posts within the few topics that started in English but some replies were in Maltese, and if they need help you guys are kindly offering which is very nice.
I had ammended to say that only replies from 17th 9am need to be changed to try and cut down and the hassle for those members that have posted, and also because the official newsletter was sent out on the 16th in the evening.
I fully support having topics started in Maltese, they generate alot of interest even if I am unable to contribute back, I can still ask colleagues who are fluent in Maltese to let me know what's going on. But I also think it's important to have a good mix and balance of English and Maltese posts to create the biggest audience.
I don't have alot of spare time on my hands as I imagine neither do Ramio, bigboy, emic and placebo who have offered to help out here, so for the time being NO posts will be deleted next week so that we can try and keep all the replies intact which keeps the discussion going, and there will be plenty of time to translate.
HOWEVER, it would be disrespectful to all if new replies continue in the wrong language in these threads given that most people have read this discussion and after the newsletter being sent to everyone.
To the guys that have offered to help I will see what I can do to move you into a special access group that has right's to modify posts and will revert back.
Thanks again.
Skip
Skip If you need i would love to give a helping hand. :)
Quote from: LapsiBoy on September 20, 2008, 03:30:13 CET
Skip If you need i would love to give a helping hand. :)
Same here !!
Chris
Well done to all who offered as translators. I'm sure that there won't be anyone who will abbuse of our help. What I suggest Skip, that when we translate future posts, we leave the original and just add the translation underneat. The autor of the post will start his post by asking for help to translate. This will make it easier for us.
And listen guys, this isn't an english lesson, so even if you are not very fluent in english, and write so-so, just go on do it, members will still get your point. Good luck.
Skip I will be needing your help to show me how to navicate through the posts to actually do the translation.
Hi Skip,
If need be I can help aswell. I'm not perfect but everyone will surely understand my translations and if need be I can translate Italian aswell for our Italian friends.
I have received an email from a member complaining about this decision and I have taken the time to reply to him. One of his points was that he didn't think it was fair that topics started in English had to stay in English and yet a topic started in Maltese could be replied in Maltese and English, even though clearly the topic starter prefers Maltese.
I will admit the guy has a point that warranted due consideration, and as we now have a team of moderators here to assist us with translations, perhaps we can establish the following:
In a Maltese topic if someone posts in English, put (Please translate at the beginging) and a moderator will modify his post and add the Maltese translation above it, with the words (Translation) in brackets at the end. There might be some like myself who can just about read Maltese with difficulty but are not capable of writing it, and that way they can still contribute.
Likewise if someone can read English but doesn't feel they can write back, then please put (Please translate) at the begining and reply in Maltese. That way one of the forum moderators can add the English translation above.
In this way we can allow everyone to contribute and not be left excluded, although as we're all busy people, it may take some time for forum moderators to get to your post and translate it.
I will be sending this post to all the moderators so that they are aware, but may I remind everyone that like myself, we are not paid and are dedicating our time out of our own goodwill for the benefit of all.
Currently the forum moderators are:
Senior Moderators:
SimonG
Ramio
The_Gaffer
Shanook
Junior Moderators:
bigboy
fishfinder
Gazzetta
placebo.
good one skip....and the forum will never die my friend!
the idea of this forum is one of the most ever brilliant things that happened in the life of fishing in Malta so go on my friend... we will support you throughout and will never give up!
thanks for the kind words adrian
Well done guy.Keep up your good work.
To say for myself this forum is the most thing i look up to on the internet. The first page which comes up when i open my browser is mff homepage. I have been in this forum for nearly a year now and i have seen that as time goes by more people are contributing.
Go on guys lets keep it running :)
agree with you big boy I found the forum very interesting.Well done to who invented it
well said bigboy. Its become a habit for me to check whats going on at the forum and besides that, its also very informative. I have also learnt a great deal from what others contribute..........thats what makes this forum GREAT.
Skip, I do not find ant problem to translate any posts on an english started topic. If sombody finds that he can contribute, but cannot post in english all he needs to do is ask us to translate his maltese post. As you said starting with "translate" will be suffice. First one of us who sees the post and has time will do it.
I'm even ready (finding time) to translate any informative maltese posts for the benefit of the engish reading members and guests.