MFF Club/Association

[The_Gaffer]

Ok, we can announce the provisional group that has been set up to oversee the setting up of the club.  The tasks in hand include documenting a statute, extending membership of the present Premium and VIP MFF members to the new club too, publishing the draft statute for general comments, and calling a general meeting to officially launch the club.  The people working on this are; Skip, Seafox, The Gaffer, Baghira, Robby017, Shanook and Clutch_Kick.  This group represents the full spectrum of the forum, with Skip + gaffer+Seafox & Shanook for boat fishing, Robby017 + Clutch_kick for rod fishing, and Baghira for speareos.  Anybody else who would like to join the working group, please feel free to join.

[benri]

Thanks for all your great efforts guys!

[toxictuna]

Gaffer Some time ago I sent you the required paperwork to apply to kms. I do not recall if I had offered back then but if you need to meet with them just let me know as I know them quite well

[The_Gaffer]

@Toxictuna.Thanks, yes, I had recieved the documents you sent.  Once we are complete with the set up, then yes, I would very much like to meet the reps from the KMS

[Gogo]

All the best for the newly created Amateur Fishing  MFF Association or Club.
Permit me to make a simple suggestion. Before uttering to the general public freelance statements which are inaccurate and to say the least false, together with a boiling blood and fast beating heart in favour of amateur fishing add some brains.
Persons in responsible positions do not shout their inner emotions without considering the outcome of their outburst.
Again all the best and good luck.

[shanook]

I stand with what I stated, there is more but I am not here to publish or make known certain attitudes of responsable persons.

If I stated anything false its better to let us know which one it is so that the members are aware of any misconceptions that I stated. I will also be made aware if the inofrmation I got was right or not.

@ Gaffer...... if the federation secreatry does not indicate which of my ''freelance statements'' are incorrect  than I Officially resign my position from the forum association as of immediate effect.
@ SKIP.......if the federation secreatry does not indicate which of my ''freelance statements'' are incorrect  than I Officially resign my position as moderator from the Malta Fishing Forum.

I am doing this as I will then be free say what there is to be said and not inovlve the MFF or the new MFF C/A.

[bigboy]

Shanook all you said is correct !!

[shanook]

thanks Bigboy for your support....I like to make sure of what I say, but anyone can make a mistake and I dont mind to be corrected....but just to say that what I said was not right and not point it out makes me LIVID.......

[The_Gaffer]

Lads this is a discussion. You all know I fully support discussions. Discussions are healthy as they challenge the status quo. My guidance to shanook is to stay on and use the appropriate area to drive your arguments home.

[shanook]

Joe to take or follow an arguement one has to state his mind Which I did BUT to get a post like the Federation secretary did and not point out anything tangabile is not an argument or discussion as a matter of fact I really dont know what it is??
If he was adressing me (as a matter of fact I had my doubts).......but to state that one has to use his brains and the outcome of their words are very close to threatening a person not to speak is mind..... do I now have to give my posts for my Lawyer to check them out?!?!?!?!?!

[SEAFOX]

The concept behind forming an association has many advantages, several in fact. All MFF members would find the officially recognized "ghada" very useful as the Gaffer explained on opening this thread. I need not repeat what these are.
Bottom line...we currently have no "voice" at all anywhere. Membri kemm trid, forza xejn.
The PTF, MFB, MFC, rod fishing issues etc.... have now gone by, some decisions were bizarre imma...it is what it "was!".
Most probably there was not enough strength in numbers or organized associations those days to protect the real recreational fisherman, resulting in advantages being taken over the "minority".  

Its all history, we now have to look forward, so pls. let's be constructive and not deviate from our assignment. Those who have met the Federation members can openly state that they are very well organized, have their own premises and all what it takes to be a very formidable "association".

Despite having only a few hundred members their committee has excellent representations significantly safeguarding the interests of all the "delettanti".

The MFF counts nearly 2000 members, where is our force? do we have any say anywhere? can we apply for funding or for a meeting premises? You all know the reply to this one.

Hence the proposal of having an "association" utilizing the structure & guide lines of the Federation, (who has kindly offered their unilateral support in this venture) was created. Lets all work together for this objective as it shall only be to our benefit.

[The_Gaffer]

I'd like to add my experience to this debate.  I will take Shanook's 8 listed points and put in my say for each point.

1. All PTF boats were moved some were privileged and were given MFB, the rest MFC
The Gaffer was registered as a PTF.  When the new regulations were issued, I was not privilaged, and the Gaffer was automatically reistered as MFB.  .  Perhaps the privilaged boats that shanook is mentioning are those luxary boats which were registered to a few people here in Malta with a PTF licience for VAT exemption purposes.  

2. MFB had to bring in an amount of fish approximately 750 Euro worth of fish every third year. MFC were practically stripped of everything and reduced to an S.  
Actually MFB boats in the 6mtr range had to bring in Lm750 Malta Liri, while 8mtr boats had to bring in 1,000 malta Liri!!!. The third year mentioned by shanook was only applicable as a one time consession after we joined the EU.  From the 4th year onwards, the minimum amount of fish brought in was on a YEARLY BASIS and not every 3rd year.  That was the minimum set by the Fisheries to enable you to keep your MFB licence.  By the time we switched to euros I don't know what the amount was as I had already downgraded my boat to MFC.  I was forced to sign a decleration that I was surrendering the MFB licience and if I ever wanted to re register the Gaffer as MFB, I would have to pay Lm,1000. registration

3. If one does not bring in the allotted Price in fish will forfeit the MFB and to get it back has to pay 1000 Euro.
Refer to comment in point 2.  
Again the same amount but in Malta Liri.

4. Any boat whether it ventures out, of the now 12 miles limit has to have a Valletta registry if it is over 6mtr. Come again so if I want to stay close to shore and do a bit of fishing because one has a 6mtr boat one has to pay double (Mf? and Valletta).
That regulation was set by the Malta Maritime Authority and not Fisheries. However, being an MFB, I do remember paying a much lesser annual registration fee for Valletta registration than ordinary vessels registered with Valletta only.

5. We are supposed to preserve fish but with the decision to get 750 euro worth of fish most of MFB overfish and use Pariti.
Agree, so can someone please explain the rational behind the decison to bring in a minimum requirement every year in order to preserve the MFB licence!

6. We were told at a meeting in B'Bugia that we were lucky that the federation managed to let MFC use rods to fish (i consider that primitive).
I wasn't present for this meeting.  Again, an explaination would be in order here.  

7. if you are MFB registered u cannopt change the engine for a bigger one???
Not aware of this one either

8. If an MFB and you have ONE inboard engine you cannot add an auxiliary outboard.(hear hear for safety).
Again, not aware of this either.

Having posted my point of view, which is reflective of some unknowns which I highlighted, is all the more reason why the Forum, yes this Forum, the largest online community on these islands representing recreational fisherman, should and will have it's own association, club, call it whatever you like.  We need to challenge the status quo.  We need to bring the myths and fallacies to the surface, expose them, and replace them with facts.  We also need to be a presence where it counts.  There are threats as well as opportunities.  We have the power to convert threats to opportunities, become knowledgable and informative to substitute our weeknesses with strong and credible arguments, and continue to exercise caution and control when it comes to continuity and sustainability of practicing our hobby.

I also agree with Colin's statement that all this is now in the past.  We are now facing a new challenge (threat if you like) with new legislation in the pipeline.  The forum is prepared to take on this challenge and change the threat into an opportunity.  An opportunity to fix what was (is) wrong, and ensure that the interests of the recreational fisherman are respected on the same lines as our European counterparts.

[Gogo]

Hi Shanook,

First of all my words 'add some brains' means that we have to think and work out good arguments to oppose the Authorities regulations which jeopardise our hobby. Simple as saying look before you leap. A good heart and boiling blood controlled with some good thinking (here enters the brain) leads to constructive dialogue.
My post was a mere suggestion or advice (interpret it as you please) following Gaffer clarification of your post and had no intention to go through your article.
I am afraid that you proved me right. Your reaction to resign your post and have
your post checked by a lawyer is exaggerated and obviously without giving a thought.

Well hold your horses and stick with the MFF new committee. You can give a big help through your experience and also fighting spirit.

Now as you asked I would like to elucidate a few of your articles where I disagree. Apart from those named by Gaffer.

  ''We could fish in the Maltese territorial waters (25 miles) and although there was a law to have Valletta registered they never bothered us''
The 25 mile area is the EFZ (exclusive fishing zone). This is under the pertinence of the Fisheries Department which was introduced in 1971 by Malta and accepted in order to safe guard the Maltese Fisherman from the rampant trawling and pursiene net fishing by other countries. The territorial waters of Malta extend up to 12miles and unless it has been recently changed is the limit under the jurisdiction of Maltese law.

'All PTF boats were moved some were privileged and were given MFB, the rest MFC'.

This is not correct and the word 'privileged' is a serious allegation involving third parties.
PTF  was not removed but given another name,MFB, within the commercial Fishing register to follow the MFA (fulltime).  MFB as previous PTF fisherman had and have to land catches at fish market, ETC registration, tax registration and later VAT as local law demands for any commercial activity.
Since purely recreational fisherman were registered as part timers in PTF and could not honour these regulations another category was created to suit the amateur fisherman. ( sorry to say with the persistent pressure of the Federation, maybe the Federation should have left recreational without a category where to register.This category is the MFC which is the last category to be legally recognized within the Fisheries Department.
At the time well before EU any one that opted to remain in the commercial registry could stay whether MFA or MFB provided he adhered to the above regulations. 

Also this statement worries me as it implies that once enforcement (which unfortunately lacks badly) is not applied we are happy to do what we want. Then why bother that nets are cast close to coasts and so and so forth .... Or we want regulations for others only?



''7.if you are MFB registered u cannot change the engine for a bigger one???''
''8. If an MFB and you have ONE inboard engine you cannot add an auxiliary outboard''

The capacity of a nations fishing (commercial) fleet is measured in terms of both tonnage and power. Malta's capacity ceiling is 15193 GT and 97805 KW.
At present available capacity is 2484 GT and 6705 KW. The amounty of engine power available is going to limit registration of new professional vessels.
The Fishing vessel register was closed on September 2003 and then opened for commercial vessels i.e. MFA and MFB on two occasions December 2006 and April 2008. One has to add that on 2008 there were 48 MFC who applied to change over to commercial MFA or MFB and were all accepted.
At present on the Fisheries Board part of the agenda include the third opening of register for commercial vessels and the next meeting in May discussion is based on the proposals and parameters to be used in selection of the prospective applicants.
This is the reason why an MFB or MFA is not allowed to add engine power and consequent tonnage. The available capacity should be shared by new applicants
and not waste engine power and tonnage where there is already an excess.


I think I made my point clear enough and I am not going to trouble MFF members any longer answering on all other passages in your posts referring to the Federation and me personally. I just want to point out only on this.

''we were lucky that the federation managed to let MFC use rods to fish (i consider that primitive)''.

Yes the Federation i.e. all Maltese Fishing Amateurs, is proud that despite the hard time against all odds  on the Fisheries Board  persuaded the Fisheries Department and yes achieved the use of Fishing Rods on MFC boats.

Last point not in your post however who posted this will surely understand and forgive me.

''Despite having only a few hundred members their committee has excellent representations significantly safeguarding the interests of all the "delettanti".''
I can assure you that counting Birzebbuga, Bugibba , Marsamxett, Denci Club, Sliema, Gzira and Gnejna members the Federation is second to nobody. Remember members should be paying members.

Here I close definitely my posts.

Joe Carabott Damato





.

[The_Gaffer]

 ''Despite having only a few hundred members their committee has excellent representations significantly safeguarding the interests of all the "delettanti".''
I can assure you that counting Birzebbuga, Bugibba , Marsamxett, Denci Club, Sliema, Gzira and Gnejna members the Federation is second to nobody. Remember members should be paying members.

@ Gogo: Well, you run your club with your rules, here we prefer to do things differently.
Paid up members or not, the MFF has 2000 registered members. I don't think tha twe should lose any time and effort comparing numbers, not for now anyway.  However I must say this.  With your second to none paid up membership figures, the MFF, together with its 220 paid up members, and over 1700 non paying members, still manages to attract the highest amount of online traffic and activity.  We cannot compare the MFF to any other club, because the medium in which we operate is different.
What Colin referred to is a fact no one can dismiss.  On a like for like basis if we count members, the MFF is by far the biggest representation of recreational fishermen in Malta.  So I guess your comment here was slightly uncalled for, and irrelevant to the discussion. 

On the cemment about rod fishing and representation by the Federation with the Fisheries board, I have to admit I agree with Shanook here.  If this was ever discussed, then it is a shameful and pityful situation.  Whilst I'm sure everyone here will thank you for the efforts exercised by the Federation on this subject, it is indeed pityful and of utter disgust that such a proposal was ever mentioned.  There is no concession extended here.  Rod fishing is a right, enjoyed all over the world, and supported by the EU charter.  The MFF would have made a laughing stock of any authority that ever challenged this.  May I assure you that we would have invoked all our powers and contacts both in the EU, Big Game Italia, of which 6 of us here are members, and the IGFA, to ridicule and bring to light such a pathetic suggestion or discussion.  In the EU regulation famously quoted by the FCD (regulation No.1967), recreational fishing is a recognised, supported and defended right. 

[baghira]

OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHH I SIMPY HOPE WE ARE ALL HEADING THE SAME DIRECTION,