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Author Topic: New Yamaha F70 vs Etec 75  (Read 32210 times)
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Meccanic
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« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2013, 05:07:43 CET »

MERCURY gives the option for your GUARANTEE PERIOD:

EU standard 2 year guarantee
or
Upgrade to 5 Years Guarantee

The 2 Year Guarantee as required by LAW is standard and you are free to service the engine anywhere but you must proof that the service was carried out using new Quicksilver Replacement Parts.
OR
Upgrade to the 5 years Guarantee by adhering to Mercury's Service Sheet as described above and you will be backed by a 5 years Guarantee.

This is a common practice on computers, tvs etc in USA and now also in Europe and MERCURY OUTBOARDS have chosen to offer this service to their clients. I just point out that sales for MERCURY OUTBOARDS in MALTA, as you can all see are on the sharp increase due to quality products, unbeatable prices and MUCH IMPROVED AFTERSALES SERVICE.

MECCA MARINE has 4 appointed mechanics/installers: Gilbert, Robert, Michael, and Eric.
A client is Free to choose any of the above for servicing under warranty.

Like everything in life you can chose to buy a variety of quality products.

Marine Grease Euro 6.90 (Standard Marine Grease)
Quicksilver 2-4-C Marine Grease Euro 14.99
Quicksilver Teflon 101 Euro 33.96

Gear Oil:
Standard Gear Oil Euro 8.99
Quicksilver Gear Oil Euro 11.05
Quicksilver High Performance Oil 1 Ltr Euro 24.50 - Correct it will be enough for 2 services.

Corrosion Guard:
Quicksilver Corrosion Guard is not the same product as Solve It, Brunox and others sold just under Euro 10.
Spray Quicksilver Corrosion Guard on external surfaces to protect from corrosion.
Recommended for marine products and other equipment
Provides a film that is dry to the touch, has excellent resistance to water, oxidation and corrosion
Remains clear
Does not peel
Harmless to painted surfaces

We have only introduced this item for the past 2 years and sales of this item is really overwhelming.
Many clients, Outboard & Inboard owners of not just MERCURY & MERCRUISER also are buying this to protect their engine. Some also use it on their Off Road Vehicles and Motorcycles.

All services by MECCA MARINE are carried out with client. Services are also offered at the comfort of your home and no need to bring boat to MECCA MARINE.

Please feel free to contact us for any further assistance. We strive hard to deliver and offer a reliable aftersales service. nichol@mecca.com.mt Tel: 21573278 | 79732783
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skip
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« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2013, 19:57:23 CET »

For the type of use that you want out of your boat, go for a Four Stroke.

I have owned a Low Pressure DI engine, a high pressure DI engine and a modern 4 stroke and can say for fishing, even with the additional service costs related to a 4 stroke, they are better suited for trolling than any DI engine, no matter what the manufacturers say.

Interesting data sheet from Yamaha.

* F70 Hot Sheet FINAL FINAL 7-1-10 (v2).pdf (1235.94 KB - downloaded 653 times.)
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The_Gaffer
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Jeaneau 585 Merry Fisher 'Marlin' with Honda V-Tec


« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2013, 05:42:13 CET »

Yeps, Yamaha seem to be way ahead, up there where the air is fresh.
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spiru
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« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2013, 19:07:06 CET »

Skip, what are the additional service costs?just engine oil and filter,but do not forget that 4 stroke engine does not need 2 stroke oil.i used to buy quicksilver 2 stroke oil when i had my mariner...it was 34 euro for 4 or 5 litres,and you will need much more than 1 can in 100hrs.so 4 stroke is cheaper to run.
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fastfisher 17....yamaha 100detl
spiru
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« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2013, 19:14:13 CET »

Practically in my opinion there is no advantages that an e tec motor has over a 4 stroke like yamaha.you also same money on spark plugs.Mine is still with factory plugs after 5 years.Ask e tec owners how many times they changed their plugs especially if they troll for long hours.
you need to replace the timing belt in a 4 stroke but that is after 1000hrs
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fastfisher 17....yamaha 100detl
EmicMalta
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« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2013, 19:22:47 CET »

2 strokes are much more expensive to mentain compaired with 4 stroke. It does nt include only oil and filter, you must remember the compressor, which as for the optimax, Tldi and all similar engins, their life time is not so long and it s costs is nearly more the 1/3 of a new complete engine. An other thing on ideling and low revs, 2 strokes does nt like it at all. ( talking regards the new 2 stroke systems).

Now a days 4 stroke engines are much more similar to a car engine and all the technology if going in that way.
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spiru
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« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2013, 19:33:42 CET »

Emic you are right,in fact they are the same like car engines.The yamaha 100detl is the Ford Puma engine.Actually it is a FORD engine but modified in japan by Yamaha
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fastfisher 17....yamaha 100detl
redhead
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« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2013, 07:48:04 CET »

Emic E tec has no compressor!

And to say that an e tec is more expensive to maintain than a 4 stroke .....well I tend to not agree.

Do you know how many more moving parts does a 4 stroke require compered to a 2 stroke ??

You should only go for a 4 stroke if the motor is to be used exclusively for trolling at low RPM
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Jig Harder --->
skip
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« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2013, 10:01:28 CET »

Each to their own, but there appear to be some serious misconeceptions being discussed!

@Spiru - sounds like you had a regular oil burner as they were know, classic carb based 2 stroke. They used alot of oil by their very nature, 25:1 or 50:1 at best. A good 2 stroke DI engine like an E-TEC can even run 100:1 though usually around 75:1 for XD100 on an E-TEC. That's not alot of oil at all! Ask Fortuna who fishes a lot and uses an E-TEC 75

@Emic 2 strokes are NOT more expensive to maintain, ask any mechanic. They have far less moving parts and by their very nature and design are far more reliable as a result. Any 2 stroke just needs it's drive oil changed and that's it! If you are changing plugs left/right and centre then you have some other issues.

You are supposed to change the engine oil and filter every 100 hours minimum on a 4 stroke which probably has you pulling the boat out of the water. You don't have those issues on a 2 stroke DI. And you have far more moving parts on a 4 stroke, timing belts or though now usually self adjusting chains and in general their maintenance schedule at 300 hours is far more detailed than a 2 stroke DI.

@Spiru/Emic - I have a V6 3.3L 225 ETEC and have never had to change the plugs, I have pulled to inspect them and they are fine. The engine idles beautifully and no issues in gear at slow speeds. You can't compare an old 2 stroke with a DI engine, so not sure which engine you are having issues with as you said modern 2 stroke.

A E-TEC and similar have one significant advantange over a 4 stroke by miles, holeshot and the way by their very nature they develop power every 2 strokes and not 4. A 2 stroke DI engine is going to be much faster off the line than an equivalent 4 stroke which don't run as fast at all, and tend (though not in this case) to be heavier. So if you are planning on towing skiers or have a heavier boat or you are not running the max rated hp of your boat, then then a 2 stroke DI wins hands down, if you are going to put high hours on each season, I reckon same, DI wins.

If you're doing lots of fishing, slow or medium trolling and no water sports, then go with a 4 stroke, they are smoother and quieter in general depending on the engine. How smooth they are also depends on the engine design, number of cylinders etc , and for example a 4 cylinder engine tends to be better balanced than a 3.
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EmicMalta
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« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2013, 12:35:06 CET »

Emic E tec has no compressor!

And to say that an e tec is more expensive to maintain than a 4 stroke .....well I tend to not agree.

Do you know how many more moving parts does a 4 stroke require compered to a 2 stroke ??

You should only go for a 4 stroke if the motor is to be used exclusively for trolling at low RPM

nice to hear that. They had told me that the system was the same as TLDI. Sorry for that.

I can say that a good service on mine cost me 350e.  the only thing extra that there was in the bill was the lower bearing. So I think its  a bit expensive. I done this service from one of the mention guys that someone said before.

Just to mention some parts and their cost. I m talking for a tohatsu TLDI 50. Compressor 1500e, ECU 1500e, Crank and a set of gaskets 1800e. Complete motor with power tilt cost 4700euro.

As for this engine, that's the one I can talk on, I saw several engines with these problems and spending nearly half it s actual price to arrange a problem, isn t so cheap
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Granitu
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« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2013, 15:45:59 CET »

Emic E tec has no compressor!

And to say that an e tec is more expensive to maintain than a 4 stroke .....well I tend to not agree.

Do you know how many more moving parts does a 4 stroke require compered to a 2 stroke ??

You should only go for a 4 stroke if the motor is to be used exclusively for trolling at low RPM

nice to hear that. They had told me that the system was the same as TLDI. Sorry for that.

I can say that a good service on mine cost me 350e.  the only thing extra that there was in the bill was the lower bearing. So I think its  a bit expensive. I done this service from one of the mention guys that someone said before.

Just to mention some parts and their cost. I m talking for a tohatsu TLDI 50. Compressor 1500e, ECU 1500e, Crank and a set of gaskets 1800e. Complete motor with power tilt cost 4700euro.

As for this engine, that's the one I can talk on, I saw several engines with these problems and spending nearly half it s actual price to arrange a problem, isn t so cheap

If i had a problem that costs half of the engine I would sell it as parts emic and buy a new one (another brand)...

believe me, with the price of the parts even discounted (say you sell them 30% lower than market price) you would have bought a new one.
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Good season so far.....
skip
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« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2013, 17:44:04 CET »

good point Granitu - Sadly Tohatsu over priced their parts ,so this should perhaps be  looked into when looking at which new engine.

How much will the annual service parts for each brand/model cost me. How much is their engine/drive oil given that you will have to use theirs during the  warranty period , etc.
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Granitu
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« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2013, 05:42:23 CET »

Sadly nowadays outboards ate no longer the durables the old ones were. Forget that nowadays outbaords will have the life span of a seagull.... Structurally they are produced less durable so that they breakdown after some serious hours of use at the intent to retail their parts at very high prices... Or else buy a new one.

Every manufacturer knows the lifespan of a part in hours and they just adjust pricing and manufacturing accordingly. The parts business is the real money business for producers
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Good season so far.....
aidanxuereb
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« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2013, 06:59:20 CET »

My opinion re 2 stroke vs 4 stroke is like what skip is saying, plus the fact of fuel consumption. If you need performance 2 stroke, if you need fuel consumption 4 stroke. What i can say is that after 15 years, my 115hp Yamaha is as good as new, and all i spend is a few Euros for spark plugs, impeller and gearbox grease only every 2 years. Plus some elbow grease to clean the carbs. Other than that, no maintenance required. I would not change it for the world, apart from the issue of fuel consumption, that's all.
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Fishing at sea = peace and quite...
Granitu
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« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2013, 07:37:07 CET »

My opinion re 2 stroke vs 4 stroke is like what skip is saying, plus the fact of fuel consumption. If you need performance 2 stroke, if you need fuel consumption 4 stroke. What i can say is that after 15 years, my 115hp Yamaha is as good as new, and all i spend is a few Euros for spark plugs, impeller and gearbox grease only every 2 years. Plus some elbow grease to clean the carbs. Other than that, no maintenance required. I would not change it for the world, apart from the issue of fuel consumption, that's all.

Aidan... your motor is a 1998 model?? those are one of the best generation yamahas ever produced - a next door outboard mechanic friend of mine vouches on them.
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Good season so far.....
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