I've lately been going vertical / butterfly jigging for dentex and havent had any luck what so ever and i'm a 100% sure the fish are there. I have even used fluorocarbon leaders 0.80mm and 0.60mm to no avail.
Is there a specific colour / length / weight the jig should be as i've heard they are cunning fish.
Any tips would be kindly appreciated
jigging is fairly new to the Maltese islands and its not easy to get advice. Just keep trying and learn. I have tried jigging but its a matter of hit and miss. The fish arent that abundant that you can ascertain a catch. Its a matter of luck (ask Camkev he might refer you to his archangel).
Sometimes they are there but won't be in a feeding mood like today......very frustrating but we did end up with a nice 4kg Dentex.
Leader size looks good.......aim for maximum 60m water depth so a 150-210g jig or thereabouts, then have a collection of lures, knife style, shorter ones, Blue/Pinks, Orange, Green etc with the usually silvery bits all over them.
it's hard work makes for a good workout.....
Shannook,you cursed me ;) ax ili ma naqbad huta sura ;D
if you expect that with jigging you will have always many big caches i think you are on the wrong line of thought skip!
be happy you have managed a dentex, i know a lot of people who are doing jigging sessions for a year without catching any fish or very few!!!!!!!!
having a good spot for jigging is essential in my opinion. But not enough, if they don't want to bite, you won't manage. but having some consideration for fish like cervjol, which grow into amberjack is also something which we need to take care of... cervjol in their juvenile life are easy to catch, but we have to take enough fish for personal consumption only. such method, which is getting populaR, but is increasing the risk of depleting stocks of dentex and ajs-amongst the most targeted.
In my opinion: the small ones that we catch are the big fish of the future, just remember that, and search for trophy fish with jigging and not cervjol.
release small ones in the respect of the sea and the excess that won't go for an eating. i.e. you manage a 1kg dentex(a small fish for a dentex)- you can release it. don't fish and think for today, think of a tomorrow with loads of fish- let's change the attitude guys!!!!!!!!
a jig is not a mackerel or a sardine, no scent at all... remember that too
bdw well done for the fish. any photos??
As this is not something I usually catch because I never caught any trolling, what would you therefore say is the minimum size to keep a Cervjol/small AJ? The ones we caught were all min 1kgs as the few smaller ones we caught we released.....And whilst we caught 27 between three people albeit it with one rod, the fish were shared out.....4 (one each) went to the guys fishing on the moll at Bugibba, three went to a friend who helped us when we pulled out the boat and the others we shared evenly and ate!
The guy who caught the Dentex has been jigging for the past couple of years and I would rank him very high in the list of Malta's top jiggers.......who btw you won't find on any local forums because having the right spots is so important, as well as technique and equipment.
No picture of the dentex for two reasons.......when it was caught and I had my camera but we were hoping to catch more and in the rush didn't take any pics.....it then went into a bag unfortunately we didn't have ice and when we finally unloaded at the garage it needed rinsing and cleaning up and for those who know me and that I don't really like touching fish (yes yes have a good laugh at my expense!) I didn't feel like holding it. But SimonG, Baghira and Seahunter saw it as they came across us as we were returning home.
Quote from: skip on May 09, 2009, 17:16:37 CET
But SimonG, Baghira and Seahunter saw it as they came across us as we were returning home.
Yes, it was a beautiful fish!
skip relatively true what you are saying, especially if considering the poor maltese waters(in terms of fish and size) :-\. glad you ate them, they are delicious. but what we sometimes tend to ignore is that having richer seas involves sacrifices, not that i expect that you begin with it but it is worth a mention
observe why countries in the med have good sea ares with dwindling stocks of ajs. how come? because they preserve the juvenile, is one of the reasons. it is not your fault or anyone fishing, it is those who set the law.
just a 2cent anyways, such system is productive for trophy fish, so i prefer trophy fish. i get the feeling of your rush, it is a beautiful feeling ;D ;). 1 prefer 1 dentex of 4 kgs rather than 27 ajs of 1kg each. an opinion anyways
this is not an easy topic and very controversial and in any way i want to harm anyone's feelings, but we always talk about taking fish, we tend to forget the chance of living. this is a 2 way channel and not one way i.e. we have to give and take- nothing personal to you or anyone hit with the jigging mania, well HAVE FUN WITH CONSIDERATION FOR THE FISH you keep
I confirm.
Beautiful fish.
That's what we're here to do on the forum, discuss everything openly and get different opinions and viewpoints, whether it's on equipment and technique or indeed preserving our fish stocks.....
I have to be honest with myself and everyone, it was such a rush hooking up those fish and the first time every jigging that it didn't cross my mind that a 1kgs small AJ is still on the smallish size, though I happily released the ones that came up that were smaller.
This is like my views on Alungi which I know that not everyone shares.....they are pretty easy to catch relatively speaking if you come across them, but in all honesty once you have 3-4 6-10kgs fish on board there is no need to keep landing more. You can't sell them and for those that do if you're caught good luck to you, might end up costing your boat or a big fine. And once you've been out on a few trips and landed 3-4 fish your freezer is pretty much full! I will definately be adopting more of a catch, photo/video and release with Alungi this year......1 fish per person on the boat for consumption and then release the rest.
With the AJs being smaller fish they are easier and take less room to freeze and then consume but I totally agree that going after that trophy fish or 4kgs+ Dentex or AJ would be 100x better. The more you get the more selective you get about what you choose to keep at least that's my reasoning.
I'm still amazed that on a 150g Jig with a 5/0 we still hooked into small fish no bigger than 25cm which went straight back in with me looking at it thinking you greedy b***ard that jig was bigger than you!!
yes very true, in summer i will be dedicating some time to this technique(first spear-fishing he he he) since holidays permit me to fish on a 5 day week(i work on part time basis he he he-on weekends=perfect)
we are here to learn, including me, myself i learn a lot from many of these aspects too.
it is humoristic that fish are so greedy and naive at times, sometimes i feel foolish that fish like dentex do not get near to an aspetto and then attack a jig........... but for cervjol there is another method of jigging called kabura but the system of fishing is different
After following this healthy discussion one would think about doing some suggestions regarding the alungi competion. Maybe it is stupid but what if there will be a minimum size of fish stipulated, lets say 15kg or 12kg up will be eligible to count for the total fish caught. Fish smaller than that have to be reliesed if possible, any videos of catch and reliesed can be rewarded by putting them on the forum. It will olso give us some good name too.
There are many things that can be done for the comp, but first and foremost we need to have our first successful event. The bottom line is that not everyone shares the same opinions and doing a comp with 2 boats isn't a comp, if you catch my drift.
At 12-15kgs you'd also have virtually no fish at all at the weigh in, those are very big for Med Alungi
There is another aspect when Alungi grow bigger 12/15kg they tend to be loners and dive deeper so more difficult to catch. Thats a good way for preserving the species.
If there are sponsors for the competition that can cover the fuel for the trip which for me runs in the 75/100 Euro then I will gladly let go all the fish caught, if not I keep as with the price of fuel its not a joy ride as it used to be so it might be a one of or maybe two trip in a season.........compared to 2 trips a week.
Any takers to sponsor?!?!?!?!?! come on hands in pocket
You are going out of subject guys this should be a topic about jigging!
Quote from: skip on May 10, 2009, 11:30:36 CET
That's what we're here to do on the forum, discuss everything openly and get different opinions and viewpoints, whether it's on equipment and technique or indeed preserving our fish stocks.....
I have to be honest with myself and everyone, it was such a rush hooking up those fish and the first time every jigging that it didn't cross my mind that a 1kgs small AJ is still on the smallish size, though I happily released the ones that came up that were smaller.
Imho i would keep a 4kg dentex as i feel its a good size as granitu mentioned
As for 27 1kg cervjol..im on the fence...very true they have the potential to grow into much larger fish but sometimes when your into a bonanza like that its easy to get carried away..in fact if put my hand on my heart,i think i probably would get carried away too!
Quality does beat quantity in theory (and usually in practice) but occasionally quantity can be a real buzz and it can be easy to lose the plot in those
very rare circumstances!
I mean put it this way, would you throw 27 1 to 1.5kg sized lampuki back? ::) im guessing the majority (me included) wouldn't! whats the difference? both are migratory & both also have a potential to grow very big too...no offence to anyone intended,but its easy to talk and much harder to implement! i guess all you can do release the very small,sub 1kg ones,which i personally do as a matter of course anyhow.
Also when jigging (especially with a shoal of AJ's) your going to get alot of foul hooked fish which would be pointless releasing anyway.
I once was told by a very experienced fisherman that cerviol and acciol (AJ) are not the same fish. He pointed out the fish teeth as an example. This somehow stands, as the cerviol isn't an all year round fish, while the AJ is.
Any clarification by the experts!
I got your point skip and shanook, last time I was involved in alungi fishing was way back in the 2001 season. Back than I was involved a lot in sport fishing. The alungi we used to catch were mostly bigger than 12kg with some going up to 18kg but seems that since than things have changed. Thanks for your replies.
no cervjol is the juvenile version of an amberjack, their body changes a lot throughout their life. the problem is what you reckon as cervjol, as when juvenile fish can be similar-especially sawrell
have you ever caught a middle sized one like 4-6kgs version, you would change your opinion ;D ;D
Think is these didn't have yellowish/golden colours on them, so I would be inclined to say small AJs
Those you caught skip are cervjol and not accol. They are different species.
I Beg to differ. Cervjol are juvenile accjol. The operators of the cages below San Lucjan had bought some live cervjol off fishermen, mostly caught as a by-catch with lampuki. These were kept alive and farmed for experimental purposes on the reproduction of the species (seriola dumerili). They are the same species.
Rob
Greater amberjacks, Seriola dumerili, are the largest of the jacks. They usually have dark stripes extending from nose to in front of their dorsal fins. They have no scutes and soft dorsal bases less than twice the length of the anal fin bases. They are usually 18 kg (40 pounds) or less, and are found associated with rocky reefs, debris, and wrecks, typically in 20 to 75 m (10 to 40 fathoms).
Lesser amberjacks, Seriola fasciata, have a proportionately larger eye and deeper body than the greater amberjack. They are olive green or brownish-black with silver sides and usually have a dark band extending upward from their eyes. Juveniles have split or wavy bars on their sides. The adults are usually under 5 kg (10 lbs). They are found deeper than other jacks, commonly 50 to 130 m (30 to 70 fathoms).
courtesy of wikipedia
rob i have caught 1kg cervjol and 1kg acciol and they arent the same. maybe they are same species but they are different. 100%
Cervjol are small accjol
This info got from the official websit FISHBASE and it is clearly stating that cervjol and accol are the same fish
Malta country information
Common names: Accola, Cervjola, Serjola, Serra Ref: Lanfranco, G.G., 1996
Status: native Ref:
Salinity: marine
Uses: no uses
Country
Information: www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/mt.html
Occurrences: Occurrences Point map
Main Ref: Bauchot, M.-L., 1987
Update
cervjola = small acciola ;)
agree with you ganni
Quotecervjola = small acciola
1000000% agree
Quote from: LapsiBoy on May 11, 2009, 16:58:13 CET
rob i have caught 1kg cervjol and 1kg acciol and they arent the same
The only difference is the name!
Quote from: Granitu on May 11, 2009, 16:23:02 CET
Greater amberjacks, Seriola dumerili, are the largest of the jacks. They usually have dark stripes extending from nose to in front of their dorsal fins. They have no scutes and soft dorsal bases less than twice the length of the anal fin bases. They are usually 18 kg (40 pounds) or less, and are found associated with rocky reefs, debris, and wrecks, typically in 20 to 75 m (10 to 40 fathoms).
Lesser amberjacks, Seriola fasciata, have a proportionately larger eye and deeper body than the greater amberjack. They are olive green or brownish-black with silver sides and usually have a dark band extending upward from their eyes. Juveniles have split or wavy bars on their sides. The adults are usually under 5 kg (10 lbs). They are found deeper than other jacks, commonly 50 to 130 m (30 to 70 fathoms).
courtesy of wikipedia
I saw some pics of the lesser amberjack on fishbase, and it is significantly different to our cervjola, so I do not think it can be mistaken for one.
Rob
Quote from: skip on May 11, 2009, 09:37:03 CET
Think is these didn't have yellowish/golden colours on them, so I would be inclined to say small AJs
The yellow colour in juvenile AJs is normal, in fact in Italy they call them limoncelli.
Rob
Quote from: LapsiBoy on May 11, 2009, 16:58:13 CET
rob i have caught 1kg cervjol and 1kg acciol and they arent the same. maybe they are same species but they are different. 100%
Lapsiboy, it is a very common mistake that even professional fishermen make. In Italy most fishermen think that the two are different species, but in fact they are one.
Rob
i got two nice dentici 1 kg each today.
got an amberjack strike as i saw it coming up for the jig but did not hook.
Quote from: cukito1988 on January 19, 2009, 15:39:51 CET
I've lately been going vertical / butterfly jigging for dentex and havent had any luck what so ever and i'm a 100% sure the fish are there. I have even used fluorocarbon leaders 0.80mm and 0.60mm to no avail.
Is there a specific colour / length / weight the jig should be as i've heard they are cunning fish.
Any tips would be kindly appreciated
I got my 5.6kgs and 3kgs Dentici on 150g Jigs with 5/0 hook in around 50m of water and got hit a few meteres off the bottom both times. Jig colour was nothing fancy, more of a neutral mackerel type colour with a bit of green on the bottom Akula by Hart. Leader was 0.7mm fluoro
(http://maltafishingforum.com/talk/gallery/1_22_05_09_6_35_36.jpeg)
Quote from: placebo on May 21, 2009, 22:11:49 CET
i got two nice dentici 1 kg each today.
got an amberjack strike as i saw it coming up for the jig but did not hook.
Launching the boat for a quick run paid off mela..... :)
Guys, you are driving me nuts with this jigging! I set up everything now, maybe just a good rod is missing but I will do with what I have for the moment. Will go today to try my luck. Any hints on locations? I'm leaving from Mellieha...
don't make it seem so easy, it is not guys. unless you have a good spot it is for nothing!! No one will give you locations ciappinu, you have to find those by yourself, those sports are a mine of gold
and i don't think that skip is jigging in places that are very accessible to every boat in terms of distance. the probability is that he is jigging in places far out and/or far away, known to be hot spots by few. Not many spots yield 2 dentex a day, and a 5kgs dentex is some years old....not common to our seas unless you fish in remote places
of course some are not accessible to professional fisherman due to the fact that it costs the value of the fish to catch a fish, if you catch of course
well done skip it is nice to catch these fish but some small boats, like mine, we have to keep realistic goals cause we can't do those kind of distances or else it would take us too much time to do it. and fish would be on the lower side since our reachable places are overfished
tried jigging for two whole days. Not even a single strike and we was with two rods and around 15 jigs
one of the worst things you cld do in jigging is give out your hot spots!!
after a bit of time the fish get used to the jig and the chances of getting a fish will be reduced. if you give your hot spots, in a couple of days they will be fished by god knows how many boats and if so, you've had it, the hot spot becomes a cold one haha
i would dare to say that in a matter of time these dentex will get used to this sysyem and we will have to change again... just like many do with us spear-fisherman :-\ :-\ :-\
Infact some of the italians are already moving on to kabura jigging
Quote from: Granitu on May 22, 2009, 09:33:01 CET
don't make it seem so easy, it is not guys. unless you have a good spot it is for nothing!! No one will give you locations ciappinu, you have to find those by yourself, those sports are a mine of gold
and i don't think that skip is jigging in places that are very accessible to every boat in terms of distance. the probability is that he is jigging in places far out and/or far away, known to be hot spots by few. Not many spots yield 2 dentex a day, and a 5kgs dentex is some years old....not common to our seas unless you fish in remote places
of course some are not accessible to professional fisherman due to the fact that it costs the value of the fish to catch a fish, if you catch of course
well done skip it is nice to catch these fish but some small boats, like mine, we have to keep realistic goals cause we can't do those kind of distances or else it would take us too much time to do it. and fish would be on the lower side since our reachable places are overfished
Actually to put 'everyone's' mind at rest, I was in a small 14ft boat so we were not far off in some remote place. To those that have tried and failed, rest assured it is very hard work. What you see when we post is the end result if one was lucky of a full day's jigging.....it has taught me that being persistent is something very important, as well as being physically fit as it's not easy. To consistently maintain a good strong jigging technique over the entire day is not easy.
The first time we were super lucky, the second time was a good learning experience and on the third time around full credit goes to the skipper (not me) whose skill was evident in terms of reading the bottom contours of the seabed and positioning the boat accordingly. I learnt alot from him yesterday and certainly jigging won't be for everyone but it's very rewarding when you catch something nice.
I would have to say that being persistent comes first, location second, equipment third......and regardless of all that you can have the best 'spot' in the world, if the fish aren't there you won't catch, if they're not in a feeding mood you won't catch, and if at the time they want to feed you're not around you won't catch!!
Also concerning spots I also learnt that just by going to a spot that was previously very good, guarantees no results whatsoever or we would have come back with lots more fish. Get to a spot, drop, jig, reposition, jig, and then move to the next spot in the same general area. Don't hesitate about going back to a spot you were already at earlier on, most fish move around.
And in fact I look forward to trying some spots further out :)
that is what jigging is all about- but the maltese coast is overfished but i am glad that with some perseverance there is a glimmer of hope for us-in terms of dentex cause for ajs i think there are quite a few places around in acceptable distances
Well done Nik !! Great work and results with those jigs !!
Chris 8)
The jig was an Akula by Hart from Ta' Bormla very well priced and it has no stickers on it to come off.
Quote from: skip on May 22, 2009, 14:17:27 CET
I would have to say that being persistent comes first, location second, equipment third......
This 100% :)
essentially spinning from the land is exactly the same deal! if your not persistent with it you've no chance! Well done on an awesome dentex skip! ;D
wow skipppppppppppppp
nizeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
nice one mate u have made a definite step forward in jigging.......
Great catch Skip...thas an awsome Denci!!!
well done skip nice size eh!!!!!!!!!!!
you gave the perfect explanation of what we know about jigging so far.
nice size and a very good achievement
Can't you see the fish at 50m with the fishfinder? I have no experience with Jigging but I guess you should try to look for the fish before trowing the jigs.
don't rely much on fishfinder. Sometimes i got strikes while the fishfinder was showing nothing.
other times the bottom was indicating fish and no strikes.
i find it best to switch my GPS/ fisfinder in a dual screen mode and drive slowly on reef end and try in different places.
Quote from: placebo on May 23, 2009, 12:04:16 CET
don't rely much on fishfinder. Sometimes i got strikes while the fishfinder was showing nothing.
other times the bottom was indicating fish and no strikes.
i find it best to switch my GPS/ fisfinder in a dual screen mode and drive slowly on reef end and try in different places.
same idea.