Malta Fishing Forum

Shore Fishing => General Questions => Topic started by: Breathless on April 25, 2012, 23:17:21 CET

Title: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: Breathless on April 25, 2012, 23:17:21 CET
Follow the link below to see the actionplan being proposed by Mepa re the conservation of Dusky Groupers

http://www.mepa.org.mt/file.aspx?f=8022
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: caldaland on April 26, 2012, 00:04:05 CET
if mepa is proposing this...............there must be something fishy!
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: bigboy on April 26, 2012, 08:29:50 CET
A good initiative!!!!!! too much small groupers are being caught !!!!
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: L-Ghaxqi on April 26, 2012, 08:41:53 CET
I agree...with bigboy here...too much undersized specimens are being caught! It's a shame that these species are not being let growing peacfully...so thumbs up for this initiative!
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: EmicMalta on April 26, 2012, 13:21:25 CET
hafna kliem u ma stajt nifen xejn. Xi jfisser dan, hemm size li tista taqbad jew daqsek? Ma nafx kemmil cerna tinqabad hawn malta pero nispera li meta jsemmu dusky grouper mhux qed jiehdu in numbru ta dottijiet u hnizer kolla flimkien.
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: lazyfisherman on April 26, 2012, 13:50:53 CET
Le Emic, dusky grouper hija biss ic-cerna - il-hniezer u dottijiet ma jidrux li ser jidhlu f'dan l-Action Plan
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: Granitu on April 26, 2012, 14:51:25 CET
din c cerna trid tigi bil catch and release - mux bil qisien li tista tinqabad sakemm il popolazzjoni taghha tirpilja. Meta tirpilja - C cerna tigi li tista tinqabad bl istagun u cerna li tista tinqabad tkun bejn il 5-10kgs (c cerna f hajjitha titwieled mara u meta tilhaq il piz ta bejn wiehed u iehor 10 kgs - ssir ragel). Nahseb li bil harpoon cerna ma tkunx tista terga tigi kkacjata iktar, ghax difficli bin nifs tistima li cerna ta bejn 5-10kgs - plus li tinqabad fil hoffra hafna drabi.

Din c cerna ma naqqsitx minhabba li nqabdet hafna bil harpoon (il kkontribbwixxa imma mux l iktar) imma ghax din c cerna kienet mardet. Ghala mardet ma nafx, imma hawn nies zgur li jikkonfermaw li kien hawn zmien li c crien kienu jinstabu fil wicc qed imutu. Hawn ghajdut li habba xi valenu li kien hareg minn xi vapur u hadd ma nduna - imma supposizzjonijiet biss

Sar hafna hsara minn nies ukoll li mhumiex sajjieda ta veru. Hawn nies organizzati li jinzlu bic cilindri ghac cerna u jistaduwha f 80-100m - emm ssir l hsara bil harpoon - certu crien rari jitla fil baxx apparti biex jitghammar u jhalli l frieh 8)

Sakemm cerna ma tigix mistada f dan il fond - jibqa jkun hawn popolazzjoni ta crien.

waqt li naqbel mar regoli, certu postijiet li huma produttivi ma jistawx jigu protetti minn kull tip ta sajd (sajd rikreattiv b mod partikolari). Inkella nispiccaw naghmlu moratorju ta xejn sajd fil bahar.

Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: fabrizioviper on April 26, 2012, 16:52:58 CET
@ granitu , veru li kien hawn marda ta dawn l ispeci , nista nikonferma, ax konna nsibu hafna mejtin fil wicc, nahseb ilu 22 yrs, kont tarhom fil wicc qisom xkejjer, min dak iz zmien l hawn rajtom naqsu hafna c ceren  jien :(
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: lazyfisherman on April 26, 2012, 17:00:01 CET
Granitu (jew xi hadd iehor) - Catch and release huwa dejjem possibli? - ic-cerna huta li tappartjeni ghal familja ta hut li tinkludi is-sirran, il-hanzir etc. Ma nafx dwar ic-cerna propja izda dawn kollha jbatu jew imutu meta jittelghu minn cert fond mihabba li titlaghlom, dik il-buzziqa (swim bladder) f'halqhom minhabba bdil fil pressjoni tal-ilma. Ic-cerna l-istess?
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: Robby9 on April 26, 2012, 17:08:13 CET
ijja ic cerna itella buzziqa imma bhal ma qalu tac cilindri l iktar li jeqerduha u dawn il flieles naqbel li andom jigu c&r specjalment meta tinqabad xi wahda mill art b xi qasba tkun adda zghira anda tigi mehlusa ax kull qatra toghod fl opinjoni tieghi.
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: Breathless on April 26, 2012, 17:33:09 CET
Naqbel mijak Granitu bic-cilindri saret hafna hsara u dan l ahhar bdew jizdiedu n-nies li jippratikaw is-sajd bil harpoon u cilindri sfortunatament... Il problema hija li minhabba l egoizmu ta dawn in-nies jbati kullhadd...
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: EmicMalta on April 26, 2012, 21:10:23 CET
preblame hi li kien u ad awn abbuzi. Issa personali naqbel li jsir ftit kontrol ax hemm bzon xi haga simili. l inportanti dan mhux il bidu ta affarijiet ohra. Ic cerna ittella il buzzieqa u ma nafx anke jekk tinqabad min certu fond kemm hi kapaci tajx iktar. La darba tinqata 5 mtr mil qieh, cerna nahhiet is sahha kolla.

Issa jistaw jajdu al tal harpoon, jien 1 li nmur ta spiss u nassigurakom li mhux facli daqs kem timmaginaw biex taqbad cerna. Ovjament ax jkun hemm min jirrispetta id dive sites u certu hut ma jintmiss, dawn jaghmlu iktar kunfidenza u nies li jinzlu bic cilindri jimmaginaw li facli li taqbad cerna. Nista najd li andi wahda ijli nmur alija fuq 7 snin u malli thoss cafcifa tarahha diehla gewwa go ghar kemm ma tinqabadc.

Issa hemm problema ohra ta meta jinqabdu bis sunnara, u bix xibka. Pero sinceramnet jekk jajdu li jinqabdu 18 il tunnelata, iebsa biex naccettaha. Jekk jinkluwdu id dottijiet u il hnizer tal fond jista jati il kas, imma dak l ammont ta duasky grouper impossibli.

Dak meta mardu ax kien hemm xi kimika li nafhitilom il buzzieqa u kienu jitilaw fil wicc. Taqla xeba xemx u tmut. U filfat dak iz zmien kien hemm razza ohra ukoll, ic cerna kienet iktar matnazza u roza. U filfat personalment 2 biss naf li hemm, ax il bqijja qatt ma rajt.

Rigward kemm tintaqa ma crien ma tistax tajd, pero illum in nies saret iktar konxja fuqom u filfat hafna nies jistaw jikkonfermaw li bhala flieles tara hafna, u jekk tkun b harpoon inti dejjem taghzel jek taqbadiex jew le.

Rigward il hwienet li jbijaw ic crien, ara ma tahsbux li dawk kolla crien ta malta. illum kwazi kollox inpurtat mil libya, tunis u marokk.
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: baghira on April 26, 2012, 21:22:26 CET
Personalment jien ilni noghdos snin twal u cerna (meta nghid cerna jigifieri il fuq min ammont sewwa ta kilos) darba bqadna.
Jigifieri meta jintqal li nqerdet bis-sajd tal-harpoon, nahseb li min gabar l-informazzjoni kien fis-sakra.
Jekk insemmu diving bil haproon, ta min jispecifika li dak mhux sajjied apneist, imma diver.

Bic cilindri noghdos ukoll jien u naf fejn hawn crien, pero dejjem irrispettajthom u qatt ma mort ghal wahda f'dawn is snin kollha.

Flieles tiltaqa ma hafna u inhobb nilghab maghhom, u allahares nara lil xi hadd jispara ghal wahda. Gieli nipprova innigizhom halli jitghallmu x'inhu periklu, ghax meta tkun zghira ic-cerna hija fost l-aktar speci ta hut facli biex tinqabad jahasra.

Hawn Malta dejjem L-istess.
L-ewwel ma jsir enforcement ta xejn, ghal diversi ragunijiet, imbghad upps xi gralna....... U meta tibda xi diskussjoni bhal din, ma jkunx gej min awarness ta', imma minn nuqqas ta business, jew min ordnijiet min-barra min Malta, ghax hawn l-enforcement officers ma humiex edukati bizzejjed.
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: Accjolaman on April 27, 2012, 10:17:19 CET
Jekk tridu taraw kif qieghedin jinqerdu certu hut morru sa l iskall tal Marfa bil lejl u stennew lil xi certu nies jigbdu. Tajd mhux bin nifs jew bil qasba qed jinqerdu ic crien.
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: Marenostrum on April 27, 2012, 11:58:43 CET
Jien wisq nibza li dan u bidu ta xi haga ohra kif qal xi hadd fi topik izda naqbel li jkun hawn tip ta kontroll.

pero wiehed meta jaghmel stharrig ma jridx jivvinta bhal ma nahseb li ghamelet il MEPA.
kif intqal qed issir hafna hsara bil harpoon pero mhux minn nies li jinzlu bin nifs izda bic cilindri u ghalhekk meta jisemma harpoon jehel kulhadd. issa jien gieli rajt nies bid dghajsa u jikkacjaw bic cilindri u anke rajthom jisparaw fuq crien daqs brieqex arukaza.

ghala ma jsirs grupp ta nies 'enforcers' u malli xi hadd jara xi haga hekk jigu fuqu mill ewwel u jikkonfiskawlu d-dghajsa?

u haga ohra li tista ssir ma nafx jekk hux stupidacni li ser nghid imma ha nghida:
min ghandu kors tac cilindri (li sa fejn naf jien irid ikollok biex tghodds) qabel jinzel jew meta jimla c cilindri irid jirraporta x imkien u jghid fejn ha jkun jghodds kemm ghal sigurta u kemm biex jaraw x qed igorr mieghu!
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: Marenostrum on April 27, 2012, 12:19:00 CET
u haga ohra li ma iridux jinew huma l pariti. vera li tal pariti iridu jghixu minn fuqu imma kieku taf kemm meta ineqqu parit jitrema hut bhal pappagalli  skorfon u hut hut iehor li ma jgibx flus ... mhux ghalhekk li jigru affarijiet hekk imbad.

issa nghid xi haga ta l ahhar fuq tal harpoon..... hawn min jinzel ghal gost biex kultant jaqbad huta u hawn min jinzel spiss biex l qabda tinbieh f xi restoranti jekk ma jkunx sid ir restorant stess jew jkun jahdem mieghu....... issa f restoranti tara hafna crien zghar fid displays allura mhux ta bilfors isir xi haga hekkk.. dawn in nies li huma business minded qed ifottu kollox!
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: Breathless on April 27, 2012, 13:16:24 CET
Min irid jista jibghat il kummenti u osservazzjonijiet tijaw at bap.groupers@mepa.org.mt i sent them an email with my comments will post on forum when they reply....
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: Granitu on April 27, 2012, 14:36:03 CET
Quote from: Marenostrum on April 27, 2012, 12:19:00 CET
u haga ohra li ma iridux jinew huma l pariti. vera li tal pariti iridu jghixu minn fuqu imma kieku taf kemm meta ineqqu parit jitrema hut bhal pappagalli  skorfon u hut hut iehor li ma jgibx flus ... mhux ghalhekk li jigru affarijiet hekk imbad.

issa nghid xi haga ta l ahhar fuq tal harpoon..... hawn min jinzel ghal gost biex kultant jaqbad huta u hawn min jinzel spiss biex l qabda tinbieh f xi restoranti jekk ma jkunx sid ir restorant stess jew jkun jahdem mieghu....... issa f restoranti tara hafna crien zghar fid displays allura mhux ta bilfors isir xi haga hekkk.. dawn in nies li huma business minded qed ifottu kollox!

Jekk min imur jistad bin nifs imur ibiegh il hut bhac crien, nassigurak li mignun. C crien naqsu hafna u l hut tar restaurant li jinqabad bil harpoon hafna minnhu maqbud bic cilindri.

Fil forum perswas li hawn nies jafu min huma dawn n nies, kulhadd jaf min huma imma hadd ma jista jkellimhom. Tirraporta l awtoritajiet ghalxejn ghax jekk hawn xi hadd li ma jaf xejn x jigri fuq bahar, perswas li huma huma - Nies ta l iskrivanija ma jaghmlux riforma fuq l bahar.

Rapporti u ricerki ma jsirux go ufficu jew skrivanija minn akkademiku ta l universita li 'jiehu referenza - jikkopja' l ideat minn fuq kotba ohra. Ma tistax tqabbel 'Dusky' grouper ma hanzir tal fond - bil malti - qed tqabbel l hass mal bass :). Qisek qed tqabbel Denci ma Pagru - L istess forma imma hut differenti

Anqas tipprova tbellaha li b Eur 70,000 ha jirnexxielek taghmel riforma. R realta hi li kien emm ftit fondi ta l ewropa u xi hadd xtaqhom, u ra kif ghamel biex kiteb xi haga u forma ta pjan.

Qabel ma jibdew r regoli, trid tibda ssir edukazzjoni halli n nies jifmu ghalfejn qed jigu proposti l ligijiet.
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: baghira on April 27, 2012, 15:06:44 CET
Qbilna ezatt granitu.....
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: ggantno1 on April 27, 2012, 18:04:59 CET
 Naqbel ezatt maghkom jien ukoll u nejd lil marenostrum li ghandu punt izda biex tisolva l problema mhux idur fuq minn hu bhalna jghodos ghax diletant imma ghal dawk li jixtru .  din kemm il darbo semmejta waqt laqghat izda dejjem f widnejn torox taqa ghax minflok ghas sajjieda ma jdurux ghal tar-restorants li jaccetaw Flieles ta daqs zghir!! meta diga hemm ligijiet fuq qisien imbad tmur timxi   xi water front u tara hafna hut go displays li jkun ghadu zghir . ghax ma jibdewx min dawn l ewwel , zgur li m humiex ta problema biex taqbadom ghax qedin juruk huma stess il hut fid display !!
Meta  dawn ma jibqawx jacetaw hut ta dak id daqs imbad naraw kemm ikun hawn min jibqa jaghmel herba minn dan il hut la ma jsibx bejgh tieghu !!!
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: Accjolaman on April 27, 2012, 22:25:53 CET
Minjaf?? jibda jinbieh bix xejn u jkollom jaqbdu id doppju forsi jigbru l istess. Dawn flus biss jaraw eee. Hafna drabi li stess nies li jaharqu, imma daqs kemm naqas il hut m ghadux haqq il porvli.
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: EmicMalta on May 01, 2012, 21:01:27 CET
Jista xi hadt jajdli jekk adniex nistaw naqbduwa iva jew le id dusky grouper? F sens li tinqabad u nehduwa id dar maghna, mhux f sens ta catch and release fuq esemplari sbieh.

@ granitu. Cerna qabel tisparala b harpoon andek cans tinduna x size tkun specjalment jek ikbar min 5 kg. nbad gieli jista jati il kas li tispara f toqba u tkun izar, pero nassigurak li persuna tahsiba darbtejn meta tispara taht xi blata
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: baghira on May 01, 2012, 21:55:31 CET
Ma hemm xejn sa issa dward....
45cm size and above...
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: EmicMalta on May 02, 2012, 06:42:46 CET
Ok. Grazzi hafna
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: Granitu on May 02, 2012, 17:48:23 CET
Quote from: EmicMalta on May 01, 2012, 21:01:27 CET
Jista xi hadt jajdli jekk adniex nistaw naqbduwa iva jew le id dusky grouper? F sens li tinqabad u nehduwa id dar maghna, mhux f sens ta catch and release fuq esemplari sbieh.

@ granitu. Cerna qabel tisparala b harpoon andek cans tinduna x size tkun specjalment jek ikbar min 5 kg. nbad gieli jista jati il kas li tispara f toqba u tkun izar, pero nassigurak li persuna tahsiba darbtejn meta tispara taht xi blata


Emic, jien m ghandix dubju li int tinduna d daqs ghax ghandek hafna esperjenza, pero ma nafx kif jista xi hadd jikkonvinci lil awtoritajiet fuqha....

Dawn nies li m ghandomx esperjenza ta x inhu dan t tip ta sajd sfortunatament...
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: The_Gaffer on May 03, 2012, 14:46:35 CET
Din naqa inkwetanti.  Jien ma nifhem xejn f'dan is-suggett.  Pero, nitlobkom taraw dan l-artiklu.
http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/en/newsdetails/news/national/Grouper-friendly-restaurants-to-get-certificate-20120503

Jekk dak li inkiteb hawn fit thread tal MFF huwa minnu, allura xi hadd fl-awtorita jew xi hadd iehor li jitma l-awtorita bl-informazjoni qed iniedi kampanja ta gideb kontra lis-speareos, sajjieda ect.  Pero, ma ssemma xejn fuq it-tkarkir!!!!
Jekk dak li inkiteb fl-artiklu huwa minnu, allura hemm bzonn li wiehed irrazzan naqa, bhal ma qed issir bit-tonn. (BFT).  

Wisq nibza li qed issiru hanfa inizjattivi minn naha tal-awtoritajiet, li bil mod il-mod, ser johonqulna l-gost (recreational hobby) taghna.  Dawn l-awtoritajiet bhal MEPA, fisheries, ruxmata NGO's bhal Din l-art Helwa, jimpjegaw nies li huma estremisti fil-hsiebijiet tahhom ta konservazjoni u kontrol.  Bhala ezempju nofri is-saga li ghaddejjin minnha l-kaccaturi u nassaba.  Vera hemm minn jabbuza, imma ma nemminx jien li jinqatlu daqshekk ghasafar jew tajr daqs kemm jghidu.  
Hemm bzonn li issa aktar minn qatt qabel ninghaqdu, ghax qed inhoss li bhalissa qed jinzamm kollox kwiet u kalm biex ma jintriffes hadd minhabba li hemm elezjoni generali fil-qrib.  Il-batallja hemm qeda imma, bejn ahna, u bejn il-forzi estremi tal konservazjoni u mahhom l-imhuh li jridu jidhru li huma qaddisin iktar mil Papa biex jidhru sbieh mal-awtoritajiet.

L-Ghazla fidejkhom, pero jien mhux ser naqta qalbi mill-appatija li tidher li hakmet lil membri hawn.  Jien fil-granet li gejjin ser invara inizjativa li ilna nahdmu fuqha ix-xhur.  L-inizjativa li fl-ahhar, iva anki l-Malta Fishing Forum tkun ufficjalment rikonoxxuta bhala ghaqda u tinghata l-ispazju mehtieg biex spalla ma spalla ma shabna fil-Federazjoni tal-Ghaqdiet delletanti sajjieda, niffurmaw front qawwi biex niddefendu dak li hu BI DRITT, TAGHNA
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: ggantno1 on May 03, 2012, 18:03:14 CET
 Proset gaffer kliem bhal  tal perit :)  jien ghodni gewwa ghax bhalek nahsiba!!! u nahseb  fuq il maltatoday jekk ma taqbilx ma l artiklu tistgha tikumenta jien hekk ser nghamel. Il problema jekk jaghduhx mir review taghhom biss!!!!
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: Arti2 on May 04, 2012, 12:18:14 CET
Li hu zgur il-MEPA tindahal f'kollox barra fejn ikun hemm bzonn. Ezempju wiehed ha naghti. Il-fishfarms mhux il-MEPA taghthom permess nahseb jien biex jaghmluhom fejn qeghdin. Mela dan l-ahhar harab xebgha awrat u spnott bhal ma jaf kulhadd. Hafna sajjieda hadu pjacir jaqbdu minnhom. S'hemmhekk kollox sew. Issa meta jahrab hut bhal dan nahseb jien ikun hemm impatt ambjentali fuq l-ispeci kollha ta l'ibhra taghna inkluza l-fellusa tac-cerna. Kulhadd jaf li l-ispnotta hi huta li l-istint taghha tikkacja. Iccekkjat fuqha l-MEPA din l-bicca tax-xoghol!

Issa dan ezempju wiehed apparti hnizrijiet ohra ambjentali li saru u qed isiru. Mela fejn irridu nirrispettawh l-ambjent u fejn jidhlu flus le. Jien ghidt tieghi ghax ma flahtx ma niktibx.

Rigward l-artiklu tal-Malta today vera artiklu bla sens!
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: The_Gaffer on May 04, 2012, 13:04:20 CET
Quote from: ggantno1 on May 03, 2012, 18:03:14 CET
Proset gaffer kliem bhal  tal perit :)  jien ghodni gewwa ghax bhalek nahsiba!!! u nahseb  fuq il maltatoday jekk ma taqbilx ma l artiklu tistgha tikumenta jien hekk ser nghamel. Il problema jekk jaghduhx mir review taghhom biss!!!!

Il-Perit ghamel hafna gid, imma tghidx kemm hawn nies joboduh!...bhal ma jien perswass li hawn nies jobodu lili!.  Ma tistax tintghogob ma kullhadd, u kullhadd ikollu l-interess tieghu. 

L-importanti li tghid li thoss, u li thoss, tghidu. 
Title: Re: MEPA - grouper conservation action plan
Post by: ggantno1 on May 04, 2012, 16:13:01 CET
halik milli joboduk  Gaffer   jien mhux ghalekk etlek ta"!! kullhadd nahseb jaqbel mijak fuq din il kwistjoni li   dejjem jitihdu mizuri kontrina iz zghar ghax facli . imma jaraw vera x inhi il-problema u JAQBDU L BARRI MINN QRUNU!!!!!!