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Both are great engines, but Don't you just love the marketing guys!!!
- Opti's are considerably noisier at idle, trolling and running in general....no comparison for noise levels in that video
- Fuel consumption, Speed, Acceleration....if they are not independent tests, they are worthless. Mercury will simply put the ideal prop on during their tests and put a bog standard one/wrong one on the competitors. It's only when each manufacturer is invited down to set up their own engine on the identical boat that these tests actually mean something.
- Remember the old saying? Liars figure and figures never lie. Their figures are for them running the tests at that particular place and time. If you read boat tests in various magazines, the test results will vary even with the same boat. Due to weather, wind, and wave conditions, you can never duplicate a test exactly. The driver can make quite a difference also compared to you, me, or someone else.
- E-TECs have 5 years warranty, what's all this 3+2 hype!!
-The E-TEC is simplier without compressors, belts, the OPTI needs two injectors per cylinder, the OPTI needs tracker valves and fail rails. Basically more to go wrong on the OPTI.
-The E-TEC is a battery less igntion system.
-E-TEC has more amps for battery charging and also does not require an alternator like the OPTI.
-The "HO" runs the high speed gearbox.
-The E-TEC will cost less in servicing costs over the life of the outboard.
-The E-TEC will use less oil, even when on factory TCW3 setting. On the high performance models BRP recommend to run XD-100 at the factory setting. This gets equalled out though in that the XD-100 will be dearer than the OPTI oil.
-The E-TEC allows newer/improved software to be downloaded into the EMM.
Here's a fun one....115 E-TEC and a 115 Opti on the same boat, by independant guys testing!
http://rides.webshots.com/video/3004712040101354590UinMPp
http://rides.webshots.com/album/573908112qXYUMf
So it's easy to present another side :)
With all respect Nicky, the test and promo is PUBLIC and should this be untrue, I am sure that EVINRUDE would sue MERCURY millions of dollars! the promo is used in Australia and USA since there OPTIMAX markets are strongest there.
The tests are not a just marketing gimmick: the tests are true and results speak for themselves.
Yes all Mercury Outboards are backed by 5 Years Guarantee yet if you choose not to service at authorised Mercury Service Station, you do your own servicing as many maltese do, the guarantee is the standard 2 year Guarantee.
Recommended Service for MERCURY OPTIMAX 75Hp to 125Hp is Euro 145.96
Recommended Service for MERCURY OPTIMAX 150+ is Euro 172.59
I am sure that these rates are the lowest on the island as offered direct from MERCURY AGENT and not any mechanic!
You already discussed the ETEC Non Servicing in previous blogs and you were all shot down that to look after your outboard, servicing is a must....
The demo you are showing leaves so much to bve desired? Independent by whom?
Why don't they show the throttle, the type of prop etc etc....
Should they wanted to make a real test, they would have given all data. it is very evident that they wanted ETEC to look nicer even in their comments!
Several points you listed above are also debatable.
Why is it calculated that overall, MERCURY OPTIMAX use less fuel than EVINRUDE ETEC?
Why does ETEC web site makes only comparisons to Mercury 4 Strokes when they are fully aware that Mercury Manufactures OPTIMAX!!
The Reason: a better direct competitor! THE TRUTH IS PROOF!
Visit the main www.mercurymarine.com web site for more info....
well I just got to know that E-tech spark plugs cost over 30 euro each......
Thats really expensive.
I have a suzuki DF 90 and I'm realy impressed. Before I had Yamaha and Mariner which I have nothing to complain, but the suzuki beats them all. the power is incredible and the running cost is even more.
@Meccanic & Skip - I'm loving it :)
@ Digger0579 - my friend I am a proud owner of an Evinrude Etec 75hp bought 7 years ago. Like every year I serviced the engine and I purchased gear oil( 3 tubes) , fuel filter, water separator and 3 sparkling plugs. Bill came up to Euros 97 ( ALL INCLUDED )so unfortunately what you have just said about the Euros 30 per plug is purely crap.
Talking about power, I have a 17ft boat and I bearly see any boat my size being pushed up to 35knots with the same engine HP.
It all comes down to matching the correct outboard & propeller to your boat. I spent 2 months going through reviews before deciding what engine suits me best and with Evinrude I managed to have power and fuel consumption not to mention low maintenance cost.
I was more into Mariner but I can tell you, if I ever come to buy a new boat the engine has got to be an Etec.
Quote from: Meccanic on August 31, 2012, 08:50:55 CET
With all respect Nicky, the test and promo is PUBLIC and should this be untrue, I am sure that EVINRUDE would sue MERCURY millions of dollars! the promo is used in Australia and USA since there OPTIMAX markets are strongest there.
We all know that the advertising laws in the USA and elsewhere are very different in terms of the claims to be made. Yes they can't make any old wild claim, I would imagine they would have to produce some kind of evidence but let's face it and not bullshit around.......if a manufacturer, any manufacturer whether it's Mercury or Evinrude conducts its own tests to make all sorts of claims on a Promo video, then it is totally SUBJECTIVE and therefore should be interpreted accordingly, they are not Objective tests at all. Heck just look at some of Evinrude's tests where they sink the competitors engines by out pulling them....it's true it actually happened but the test was very subjective!
Quote from: Meccanic on August 31, 2012, 08:50:55 CETThe tests are not a just marketing gimmick: the tests are true and results speak for themselves.
You couldn't have chosen a better word.....gimmick!!! As I mentioned they don't compare noise levels which on any modern engine are a big deal...convenient because they are well aware that their engines are considerably noisier and that does bother people. They feel that Low Pressure Direct Injection is superior to High Pressure, but Mercury didn't develop the injection system, it was designed and created by Orbital Engine Corp. http://www.orbeng.com.au/intellectual-propertyflexdi.html so they can't really take credit for that!
Quote from: Meccanic on August 31, 2012, 08:50:55 CET
Recommended Service for MERCURY OPTIMAX 75Hp to 125Hp is Euro 145.96
Recommended Service for MERCURY OPTIMAX 150+ is Euro 172.59
I am sure that these rates are the lowest on the island as offered direct from MERCURY AGENT and not any mechanic!
You already discussed the ETEC Non Servicing in previous blogs and you were all shot down that to look after your outboard, servicing is a must....
Ummm not really, E-TECs in the first 3 years are far cheaper to service because all that needs to be done are the basics, drive oil, greasing and filters and I haven't read anywhere that this HAS to be done by RLR directly but they would have to confirm....What we said in the previous blog was that because they are used in Saltwater the 3 year no service claim doesn't apply in Malta as we are exclusively salt water but elsewhere in the world on lake's that stands, and Mercury cannot compete with that.
Quote from: Meccanic on August 31, 2012, 08:50:55 CET
The demo you are showing leaves so much to bve desired? Independent by whom?
Why don't they show the throttle, the type of prop etc etc....Should they wanted to make a real test, they would have given all data. it is very evident that they wanted ETEC to look nicer even in their comments!
I'm SO GLAD you wrote this and you agree, because I couldn't agree with you more!!! But then YOUR VIDEO fails to provide this information as well except that it was endorsed by Mercury....but again no prop information, no sea conditions, no temperature and humidity, no boat info, no fuel/water/people loads and so on and so forth....the links I provided were to show you that anyone can do and comparison and make it Subjective!!!
Quote from: Meccanic on August 31, 2012, 08:50:55 CET
Several points you listed above are also debatable.
Of course they are!! As are Mercury's claims but you were happy to accept those as the Truth....
Quote from: Meccanic
Why is it calculated that overall, MERCURY OPTIMAX use less fuel than EVINRUDE ETEC?
Ummm because it was a Mercury test LoL, I'm sure we can find some other tests online that show the opposite!
Quote from: Meccanic
Why does ETEC web site makes only comparisons to Mercury 4 Strokes when they are fully aware that Mercury Manufactures OPTIMAX!!
Here you have a point....again simple answer is because they are two very good and very similar engines in terms of performance the gap/results wouldn't be exciting enough to make one of those cheesy Promo videos :)
Quote from: Meccanic
The Reason: a better direct competitor! THE TRUTH IS PROOF!
Said like the true Salesman that you are :) But at least you believe in your brand ;)
________________________________________________________________________
Show me a
REAL comparison test done by someone like Boattest.com , same hull, same load, same conditions and then we will have THE TRUTH for that particular tested Horsepower, on that particular hull, which may perform very differently on a different boat!!!
So guys I reckon the lesson to learn here in case there are any of you out there that would be so easily swayed by such promotional video's.....is do your research, see what works for you and your boat, and remember you're buying the After Sales Relationship and not so much the brand. If you're in the shit in years to come it will be of little comfort to sit behind your computer watching a video that says your engine is the best if you are dead on the water and waiting to have it fixed!!
The Brand is what supports after sales Nick.
Although at MECCA MARINE we are striving hard to bring on much stronger our after sales department employing more qualified personnel; if we are not supported from the manufacturer, the efforts we make cannot be supported so strongly.
As you understand we have dealt and imported directly TOHATSU | MERCURY and therefore have a full idea what the Japanese guys offer and now what Mercury Offers.... ( we have been dealers for MERCURY only 18 months and we have managed to deliver and offer after sales already to hundreds on new Outboard owners who have shown their gratitude to the new after sales service we are offering.)
For MERCURY - The client the highlight - the center of all.
For TOHATSU - The Engine is the highlight of all - A god delivered with no factory mistakes, damage or defect! After sales - 0! Claims budget - 0 I am not discussing small claims, everyone covers small claims!
TOHATSU: it takes us over 3 weeks to have parts delivered - Mecca is to blame?
MERCURY is a whole different company: all claims are entered on extranet and accepted when reasonable. Customer satisfaction is a must. All our 3 mechanics have to attend to MERCURY OUTBOARDS and MERCRUISER TRAINING annually... This makes them fully factory backed up, with 2 BRUNSWICK factory mechanics always available for further back up a phone call away. Clients are offered a Customer Care call center and many questions are answered and backed up. Try to call any competitor - supplier. they just pass you on to dealer!
Parts delivery - DHL: 1 to 2 days when not in stock at MECCA or Free delivery in 1 week in summer or 2 weeks in winter!
PARTS PRICES: Mercury Parts cost a fraction of the TOHATSU - We all know that the MERCURY is co-owner of TOHATSU and holds 49% of the Japanese Factory. The parts are now much cheaper through Mercury Network!! we can note that many clients already noticed as the parts department is extremely busy all year round!
Working Hours: While most of you including our competitors were on holiday in August, all our retail outlets including the after sales department was up and running to offer all our clients and holiday makers a piece of mind. We do not have our holidays in SANTA MARIJA week or 15 days when all boat owners need our support ever more than ever!
MERCURY OUTBOARDS and MERCRUISER inboards have brought a whole new concept to MECCA MARINE. We are proud to be supporting MERCURY who are 1st on the Water and we are proud that after BRUNSWICK decided to close off the dealership with MM2 LTD, although their were another 7 contenders for the distribution and a delegation was sent to MALTA, MECCA MARINE was chosen for their preferred partner.
No other Outboard dealer - proud as proud can be try to support any brand with care and half the enthusiasm offered by MECCA MARINE both in Sales and Aftersales!
Quote from: skip on August 31, 2012, 22:35:16 CET
So guys I reckon the lesson to learn here in case there are any of you out there that would be so easily swayed by such promotional video's.....is do your research, see what works for you and your boat, and remember you're buying the After Sales Relationship and not so much the brand. If you're in the shit in years to come it will be of little comfort to sit behind your computer watching a video.
Very well said Nick. I am speaking from experience.
just a small note:
MERCURY Optimax engines alone, a small fraction of Mercury sales, outsells Evinrude's total production. And they don't even make Optimax below 75HP.
Quote from: cla144 on September 01, 2012, 08:41:58 CET
Quote from: skip on August 31, 2012, 22:35:16 CET
So guys I reckon the lesson to learn here in case there are any of you out there that would be so easily swayed by such promotional video's.....is do your research, see what works for you and your boat, and remember you're buying the After Sales Relationship and not so much the brand. If you're in the shit in years to come it will be of little comfort to sit behind your computer watching a video.
Very well said Nick. I am speaking from experience.
Nick and clayton don't waste your time on this topic cause all Malta knows the truth!!!
2/3 of tohatsu owners in malta are very proud with their engines including me but they buy outboard parts from abroad
So the answer is.....................
Kaptan Jr is the last that can speek.... Let alone Clayton!
I wonder why Clayton tried to pass the word to us to sell the share of Johnny's brother in KAPTAN BOATS to us at MECCA!
So why end up using this post of a professional international advert for such a discussion? If the US & AUSTRALIAN markets are airing this video since early 2012, and we have launched this video in another post in early 2012, why the hassle?
This is simple normal marketing we are using....! Who wants to sees it, can easily see it, who does not want to see it, just pass over it. this is a paid advert.. nothing more nothing less!
Sell kaptan to mecca!!!!!!!!??????? I never heard of it nichol. Congratulations
Nichol, you can easily ask KAPTAN boats why.
As you can see from the thread, I only posted a comment when the discussion was raised for the after sales service. Why are you getting so fussy about it?? Is not true that certain renowned agents here in Malta who make a lot of marketing are very lacking and unprofessional especially when it comes to after sales service???
Remember Nichol that a client is still a client even after he fully paid for the product.
When using marketing, please make sure that you are giving the correct image which is of paramount importance to the prospective clients as Skip correctly noted that 'apart from the brand, one is also buying the after sales service' which counts more. Eventually all the products get damaged and need repairs irrelevant how is being marketed and is there, when it comes to the after sales service where the level of reliability and name of the company is being tested.
When one is using simple marketing, one has to market simple but also all the whole truth. No matter what marketing is being used, what simply matters is that the whole truth is being marketed. Because everyone likes hearing/seeing the whole truth behind the advert. It is so simple.
In my opinion (just my opinion) I would be cautious how you use that slogan of yours 'Proof is truth' because sometimes when the whole truth will be known it won't be very useful as a marketing tool especially in slogans.
I am considering to repower my boat with a 4-stroke or DI outboard. I will not consider buying tohatsu since the local agent is saying that their aftersales from the factory is 0 and claims budget is 0. and delivery of parts takes 3 weeks.
right now i have a Mariner 2-stroke and i am changing the motor only to go for a 4-stroke better economy, less noise and less exhaust. I never had any problems with the local Mariner agent and since Mariner is from the Brunswick brand and they give priority to aftersales I will seriously consider to go for another Mariner outboard
dear All,
you are under the wrong impression....
the Marketing campaign is an international campaign:
kindly google it and you find it in many other Forums, adverts and you tube:
www.truthisproof.com.au
Quote from: Meccanic on September 01, 2012, 19:55:36 CET
www.truthisproof.com.au
At least here one can a bit more info like where, when, what boat although prop info is still lacking and that accounts for ALOT. It is a well known fact that Mercury have some of the best propellers in the world as that is part of their heritage. Evinrude are an engine manufacturer with a range of basic props.
I bet the prop on that 150XS has been lab finished by Merc Racing which runs around $150-200 per blade, with a good prop and such finishing I would expect to see good results. Like i said both are great engines, but I still maintain that truthisproof website is totally Subjective.
Quote from: cla144 on September 01, 2012, 18:57:00 CET
Remember Nichol that a client is still a client even after he fully paid for the product.
When using marketing, please make sure that you are giving the correct image which is of paramount importance to the prospective clients as Skip correctly noted that 'apart from the brand, one is also buying the after sales service' which counts more. Eventually all the products get damaged and need repairs irrelevant how is being marketed and is there, when it comes to the after sales service where the level of reliability and name of the company is being tested.
When one is using simple marketing, one has to market simple but also all the whole truth. No matter what marketing is being used, what simply matters is that the whole truth is being marketed. Because everyone likes hearing/seeing the whole truth behind the advert. It is so simple.
In my opinion (just my opinion) I would be cautious how you use that slogan of yours 'Proof is truth' because sometimes when the whole truth will be known it won't be very useful as a marketing tool especially in slogans.
Just for clarification purpose of the above, it was never intended/meant for the Mercury/Tohatsu/international brands.
Quote from: Meccanic on September 01, 2012, 06:56:24 CET
.... with 2 BRUNSWICK factory mechanics always available for further back up a phone call away. Clients are offered a Customer Care call center and many questions are answered and backed up. Try to call any competitor - supplier. they just pass you on to dealer!
This part is very important and with such support I expect to see a shift in attitude when it comes to problems and warranty claims as all too often in the past the norm has been to find 101 reasons to blame the customer straight away.
In addition sadly our local mechanics lack the experience and exposure to fix complicated technical problems especially given that most of them are used to being mechanics and nowadays with these engines you need to be a diagnostic technician with excellent electrical and PC skills to use and interpret what the diagnostic computer readouts are showing.
Finally I read that Mercury will provide factory mechanics as backup (this def never existed before for Malta when we used to have Merc 5.7L V8's in our boat), Marine Power Europe were never interested in Malta and helping out Maltese customers who had problems. At least a customer now also has access to a customer care center as this is also very important for the customer to speak directly to the manufacturer in case he is unhappy with the service being received or for general questions.
Freedive they have to be the old fashioned diesel engines because the modern electronic diesel engines are full of sensors and complicated like the modern outboards
I don't think it's a matter of Mercury Optimax vs Evinrude ETEC. Both are good engines. I would rather consider Mecca vs RLR - don't you think guys ;)
Quote from: ForTuna on August 31, 2012, 13:20:23 CET
@ Digger0579 - my friend I am a proud owner of an Evinrude Etec 75hp bought 7 years ago. Like every year I serviced the engine and I purchased gear oil( 3 tubes) , fuel filter, water separator and 3 sparkling plugs. Bill came up to Euros 97 ( ALL INCLUDED )so unfortunately what you have just said about the Euros 30 per plug is purely crap.
Talking about power, I have a 17ft boat and I bearly see any boat my size being pushed up to 35knots with the same engine HP.
It all comes down to matching the correct outboard & propeller to your boat. I spent 2 months going through reviews before deciding what engine suits me best and with Evinrude I managed to have power and fuel consumption not to mention low maintenance cost.
I was more into Mariner but I can tell you, if I ever come to buy a new boat the engine has got to be an Etec.
Well my friend that's what I was told.... I don't have e-tech cause I don't like 2 stroke engines and for what I need it, I really don't see it on my boat.
everyone has his opinion and that's why the Maltese saying goes" il-baqra tinbieh kolla"
My friend has a rannieri 19ft with an e-tech 115 which he says makes 33knots, when my boat a petecraft sports (which is much more heavy) is put into the water with a DF90 Suzuki standard ( with antifoauling ), I saw 31 knots....I leave it with your intelligence to make the calculations.
Another friend of mine with the same boat like mine has an e-tech on and he is changing to the DF90 cause it's not performing as it should. this is not because the engine is bad or good or the boat is crap or excellent but the combination of both engine and boat needs to be tested and well arranged as not all engines are good for the same boat.
at least that's my opinion
Digger, sent you a PM....hull aside it's usually a case of totally the wrong prop on the boat and not optimizing engine height, prop pitch, size and style.
Potentially with a 2.59:1 reduction on the DF90 Suzuki have a good range of props and the one that ships with the DF90 is ideal for the Petecraft 17.....most DI's will easily outperform a similar 4 stroke if set up correctly.
I do not agree with the above quote "Not all engines are good for the same boat". Its not the engine that matters, its the combination of prop size, pitch, and weight ratio. You need to match the prop specs to the boat characteristics.
@Nick - I once came with you on the Eagle one, an 18' Gabry if I'm not mistaken, we were 4 persons, 2 heavys (you and Simon) and me and another guy same weight as I. Eagle one was powered by a Tohotsu 90HP, and flat out we did 28.8Knots. Now we have it here that the Ranieri, with a 115 Etec, reached a speed of 33knots. Then we read that the Petecraft 17 with a Suzuki 90HP maxed out at 31Knots. Somehow the maths doesn't add up, especially with a Ranieri.
i also have a fast fisher 17 open,with a yamaha 100 4 stroke fuel injection which i bought onlt 18 months after manufacture.it had the wrong propellor pitch,because engine revs where 6100 at WOT.Now i changed pitch and it went down to 5700 WOT.When i am alone in the boat it reaches 34.5knots.With 3 persons on board it makes 31,and with 6 adults it reaches 29kn..which i think the yamaha is quite powerful being only a 1.6litre engine.The DF90 if im not mistaken is a 2litre engine,altough this makes the suzuki more torquey
Petecraft will have to chime in here and let us know what kind of figures they get with the different engines they have fitted to their 17 model, however as I understand it the 17 is very beamy for her length so in theory would not make for a very fast hull, relative to another 17 foot boat with a narrower beam and different hull characteristics. Now I'm no hull designer and I know it's all rather complicated, deadrise, chines, reverse chines, lifting strakes etc.....so I may have over simplified it somewhat.
On a beamy hull/heavy boat you will ought to be considering a stainless steel propeller......aluminium props flex under load as you accelerate and potentially even in the mid-range.
SteveGB has a Yamaha 100 on a Ranieri 17/18 so it would be interesting to see what performance numbers he gets.....
Gaffer as you know I had experimented with quite a few props on my Gabry (expensive experiments).....if you want to get top end speed on tends to reduce diameter and increase pitch....the reduced diameter lets the prop spin up quicker (Mercury have some props with vents which allow just that), but it also means less drag so more potential top speed at the sacrifice of the mid-range and perhaps even the holeshot a bit too....remember its the blade surface area that largely contributes to bearing the load of the boat underway.
A prop heavily optimised for a mid-range cruise will have elephant ear style blades and be of a larger diameter than a prop optimized for speed (Examples from Evinrude are their Stainless Steel Rebel for mid-range, or their Viper for speed, still okay in the mid-range but not as good).
I ran a Viper 17 on my 225 ETEC and got my best top end speed just shy of 42 knots with canopies down, but I had a lousy mid-range cruise in terms of Economy and Speed, the Rebel 17 was too much blade area and pitch, and I was below my WOT so in the end I opted for the Rebel 15 which gave me the same mid-range cruise economy as the 17, but within WOT specs and a top end speed just shy of 40 knots (39.8knots).....I'm not really bothered about top end speed, it's my mid range economy that interests me the most in my case.
I ought to also point out that one could have two Petecraft 17's with identical engines, load etc but set them up completely differently....this would be done with the engine mounting height and prop style, material and pitch. If you want top end speed you're going to raise the engine up higher than the norm, run a prop that is designed to run closer to the surface and then you're going to be able to dial in the best top speed, but at the sacrifice of some stability and possible blow out issues in tight turns etc.
It was only fair that having read the most interesting of debates here, and being out of the debate as I do not own either a Merc or an E-Tec, I asked RLR to provide a comment on this thread. This is what I recieved from the Managing Director of RLR
"As far as BRP Evinrude Distributors, we are not willing to comment on Mercury or any other Outboard Manufacturer. We feel this is not a professional approach. However, should anyone need any advice or like to discuss Evinrude in any way, our doors are always open. Our aim is to keep our Customers happy with Service and Support as well as keep them on the water."
Darius Goodwin
Managing Director RLR
Anything else I say or add here is superfluous.
I have to add a comment to this thread..
I am a previous Maxxon/Tohatsu small dinghi owner which I never complained about, and now I own a zodiac with Johnson which is fantastic besides some minor probs.
We all know that Mecca is one of the most selling boat dealer on the island because of its competitive prices, and one can find a big variety from which to choose. We also know that nobody ever complains about his products since that he is selling some very good brands..
But I heard and witnessed several people, speaking bad about this supplier due to his very poor after sales service, so bad that I even think twice before buying a 'Boogie' costume from there. The problems I heard from very close friends of mine are varied, and I am not going here to mention them all, but all related to his service to customers..
So Mecca why don't you work harder on this issue! You know about it, cannot deny, so try to solve it.
On the other hand RLR also have some beautiful products but you have to pay good for them. You know that 4 litre of evinrude oil for my engine costed me a mere 60 euro (yes 4 stroke motor oil with no specs. written), and a simple zodiac drain plug something near 30 euro! And they work with a mechanic (at least on small boats like mine) which will take you ages to find and make an appointment with and is paid like a doctor. A friend of mine also purchased a brand new Evinrude etec, and with all the trouble and hassle it gave him in the 1st month he had to be refunded back. Now he is very happy with a New 4 stroke suzuki. At least the after sales at RLR was good. But RLR I think you also have something to work hard on....
Quote from: The_Gaffer on September 03, 2012, 11:36:55 CET
I do not agree with the above quote "Not all engines are good for the same boat". Its not the engine that matters, its the combination of prop size, pitch, and weight ratio. You need to match the prop specs to the boat characteristics.
@Nick - I once came with you on the Eagle one, an 18' Gabry if I'm not mistaken, we were 4 persons, 2 heavys (you and Simon) and me and another guy same weight as I. Eagle one was powered by a Tohotsu 90HP, and flat out we did 28.8Knots. Now we have it here that the Ranieri, with a 115 Etec, reached a speed of 33knots. Then we read that the Petecraft 17 with a Suzuki 90HP maxed out at 31Knots. Somehow the maths doesn't add up, especially with a Ranieri.
Thats what My friend told me and thats what I saw on my Petecraft sport with new antifauling. I guess that without antifauling it would do 2-3 knots more (in good sea weather conditions).
I was told that the DF90 from Suzuki has power as a normal 115 and I think they are not kiding. today after 4 months in teh seaand with quite a load of sea grass and other stuff stuke to the hull, GPS reading goes from 24 to 25.6 knots flat out.
Quote from: The_Gaffer on September 03, 2012, 11:36:55 CET
I do not agree with the above quote "Not all engines are good for the same boat". Its not the engine that matters, its the combination of prop size, pitch, and weight ratio. You need to match the prop specs to the boat characteristics.
@Nick - I once came with you on the Eagle one, an 18' Gabry if I'm not mistaken, we were 4 persons, 2 heavys (you and Simon) and me and another guy same weight as I. Eagle one was powered by a Tohotsu 90HP, and flat out we did 28.8Knots. Now we have it here that the Ranieri, with a 115 Etec, reached a speed of 33knots. Then we read that the Petecraft 17 with a Suzuki 90HP maxed out at 31Knots. Somehow the maths doesn't add up, especially with a Ranieri.
Well gaffer,
I used to think that and on paper it should be like tha but I saw occasions that same engine on different boats perform different (standard options installed.) if you have to stay changing prop it's quite expensive matter so we all try to go for the engine which performs better on the boat as much as possible.
If it helps, my Petecraft 14 Open with 50HP Evinrude ETEC and standard aluminium prop, does 28.1 knts with 2 average persons. When I tried a lower pitch, it planed earlier but lost 2 knts of speed. To be honest I always thought that the boat could go faster but am not inclined to spend hundreds of euros to check different props. Someone from Etec Owners, a US forum website for Etec owners, suggested that I should go for a stainless steel prop. But again, everyone knows how expensive they are and if the prop is not the right one, than it will be purely money down the drain.
Quote from: malvizzu on September 06, 2012, 12:39:18 CET
If it helps, my Petecraft 14 Open with 50HP Evinrude ETEC and standard aluminium prop, does 28.1 knts with 2 average persons. When I tried a lower pitch, it planed earlier but lost 2 knts of speed. To be honest I always thought that the boat could go faster but am not inclined to spend hundreds of euros to check different props. Someone from Etec Owners, a US forum website for Etec owners, suggested that I should go for a stainless steel prop. But again, everyone knows how expensive they are and if the prop is not the right one, than it will be purely money down the drain.
listen I think you are there Malvizzu. I had a petecraft 14 open with mariner 30Hp four stroke and the max i saw with two persons was 22.2 knots and by my self 23. something. I think if you change the prop you should get 2-3 knots more but 28 knots on a 14ft boat is really really good.
I fail to understand all this fuss with speed... ;D :P
Speed is convenient, but i think on a boat 10-20 knots is more than enough. I fail to understand what an extra 5-6 knots will give you unless they are justified by some cost saving in terms of fuel and engine Wear and Tear.
What I also notice is that engines that are run flat out will eventually have a shorter life span. One should always look to run his engine at its ideal cruising RPM (every engine has it)
for engine I am referring to Inboards and outboards
Granitu, I agree with you hundred percent. Most of the boats mentioned above in this thread are not speed boats and can't understand what a difference in 3 to 5 kts can make. Last week I was coming in with my boats from a lampuki trip, my yanmar was revving 2400rpm and I was doing 23kts. The boat was cruising comfortably and steady like an arrow. Going over 25/26 kts for a long period of time in my opinion is not comfortable.
Well said guys, speed has always been a fascination and I think a lot of ppl suffer from my boat can do x number of knots, how fast does yours go!!!
What I care about is how fuel efficient my set up is at cruise, all the rest is superfluous! With modern engines that have ECM's and Digital gauges we are starting to see what the actual fuel flow is without the need for a separate flow gauge. Combine this with a GPS speed and the gauge can work out your economy and this is more important than flow rate.
If you can do 20 knots cruising at say 1.3nm/litre, if you can maintain that economy at a higher speed assuming condition allow then you have what I like to term a fast cruise. Yes you will have a higher flow rate, but you will get there quicker....not enough people focus on their economy which considering fuel is at €1.54 a litre is no joke.
Quote from: Shaftbomb on September 07, 2012, 17:49:02 CET
Granitu, I agree with you hundred percent. Most of the boats mentioned above in this thread are not speed boats and can't understand what a difference in 3 to 5 kts can make. Last week I was coming in with my boats from a lampuki trip, my yanmar was revving 2400rpm and I was doing 23kts. The boat was cruising comfortably and steady like an arrow. Going over 25/26 kts for a long period of time in my opinion is not comfortable.
What I know for sure is that while they quest speed, when they need trolling speeds of 1-2 knots, they would have a big problem - unfortunately with propellors you have to compromise to what fits your use best.