OptiMax vs E-TEC. Find out why Mercury OptiMax is the best DI 2 Stroke to buy.

[Meccanic]

dear All,
you are under the wrong impression....

the Marketing campaign is an international campaign:
kindly google it and you find it in many other Forums, adverts and you tube:
www.truthisproof.com.au

[skip]

www.truthisproof.com.au

At least here one can a bit more info like where, when, what boat although prop info is still lacking and that accounts for ALOT. It is a well known fact that Mercury have some of the best propellers in the world as that is part of their heritage. Evinrude are an engine manufacturer with a range of basic props.

I bet the prop on that 150XS has been lab finished by Merc Racing which runs around $150-200 per blade, with a good prop and such finishing I would expect to see good results. Like i said both are great engines, but I still maintain that truthisproof website is totally Subjective.

[cla144]

Remember Nichol that a client is still a client even after he fully paid for the product.

When using marketing, please make sure that you are giving the correct image which is of paramount importance to the prospective clients as Skip correctly noted that 'apart from the brand, one is also buying the after sales service' which counts more. Eventually all the products get damaged and need repairs irrelevant how is being marketed and is there, when it comes to the after sales service where the level of reliability and name of the company is being tested.

When one is using simple marketing, one has to market simple but also all the whole truth. No matter what marketing is being used, what simply matters is that the whole truth is being marketed. Because everyone likes hearing/seeing the whole truth behind the advert. It is so simple.

In my opinion (just my opinion) I would be cautious how you use that slogan of yours 'Proof is truth' because sometimes when the whole truth will be known it won't be very useful as a marketing tool especially in slogans.

Just for clarification purpose of the above, it was never intended/meant for the Mercury/Tohatsu/international brands.  

[skip]

.... with 2 BRUNSWICK factory mechanics always available for further back up a phone call away. Clients are offered a Customer Care call center and many questions are answered and backed up. Try to call any competitor - supplier. they just pass you on to dealer!

This part is very important and with such support I expect to see a shift in attitude when it comes to problems and warranty claims as all too often in the past the norm has been to find 101 reasons to blame the customer straight away.

In addition sadly our local mechanics lack the experience and exposure to fix complicated technical problems especially given that most of them are used to being mechanics and nowadays with these engines you need to be a diagnostic technician with excellent electrical and PC skills to use and interpret what the diagnostic computer readouts are showing.

Finally I read that Mercury will provide factory mechanics as backup (this def never existed before for Malta when we used to have Merc 5.7L V8's in our boat), Marine Power Europe were never interested in Malta and helping out Maltese customers who had problems. At least a customer now also has access to a customer care center as this is also very important for the customer to speak directly to the manufacturer in case he is unhappy with the service being received or for general questions.

[busumark]

Freedive they have to be the old fashioned diesel engines because the modern electronic diesel engines are full of sensors and complicated like the modern outboards

[malvizzu]

I don't think it's a matter of Mercury Optimax vs Evinrude ETEC. Both are good engines. I would rather consider Mecca vs RLR - don't you think guys 

[digger0579]

@ Digger0579 - my friend I am a proud owner of an Evinrude Etec 75hp bought 7 years ago. Like every year I serviced the engine and I purchased gear oil( 3 tubes) , fuel filter, water separator and 3 sparkling plugs. Bill came up to Euros 97 ( ALL INCLUDED )so unfortunately what you have just said about the Euros 30 per plug is purely crap.

Talking about power, I have a 17ft boat and I bearly see any boat my size being pushed up to 35knots with the same engine HP.

It all comes down to matching the correct outboard & propeller to your boat. I spent 2 months going through reviews before deciding what engine suits me best and with Evinrude I managed to have power and fuel consumption not to mention low maintenance cost.

I was more into Mariner but I can tell you, if I ever come to buy a new boat the engine has got to be an Etec.

Well my friend that's what I was told.... I don't have e-tech cause I don't like 2 stroke engines and for what I need it, I really don't see it on my boat.

everyone has his opinion and that's why the Maltese saying goes" il-baqra tinbieh kolla"

My friend has a rannieri 19ft with an e-tech 115 which he says makes 33knots, when my boat a petecraft sports (which is much more heavy) is put into the water with a DF90 Suzuki standard ( with antifoauling ), I saw 31 knots....I leave it with your intelligence to make the calculations.

Another friend of mine with the same boat like mine  has an e-tech on and he is changing to the DF90 cause it's not performing as it should. this is not because the engine is bad or good or the boat is crap or excellent but the combination of both engine and boat needs to be tested and well arranged as not all engines are good for the same boat.

at least that's my opinion

[skip]

Digger, sent you a PM....hull aside it's usually a case of totally the wrong prop on the boat and not optimizing engine height, prop pitch, size and style.

Potentially with a 2.59:1 reduction on the DF90 Suzuki have a good range of props and the one that ships with the DF90 is ideal for the Petecraft 17.....most DI's will easily outperform a similar 4 stroke if set up correctly.

[The_Gaffer]

I do not agree with the above quote "Not all engines are good for the same boat".  Its not the engine that matters, its the combination of prop size, pitch, and weight ratio.  You need to match the prop specs to the boat characteristics.

@Nick - I once came with you on the Eagle one, an 18' Gabry if I'm not mistaken, we were 4 persons, 2 heavys (you and Simon) and me and another guy same weight as I.  Eagle one was powered by a Tohotsu 90HP, and flat out we did 28.8Knots.  Now we have it here that the Ranieri, with a 115 Etec, reached a speed of 33knots.  Then we read that the Petecraft 17 with a Suzuki 90HP maxed out at 31Knots. Somehow the maths doesn't add up, especially with a Ranieri.

[spiru]

i also have a fast fisher 17 open,with a yamaha 100 4 stroke fuel injection which i bought onlt 18 months after manufacture.it had the wrong propellor pitch,because engine revs where 6100 at WOT.Now i changed pitch and it went down to 5700 WOT.When i am alone in the boat it reaches 34.5knots.With 3 persons on board it makes 31,and with 6 adults it reaches 29kn..which i think the yamaha is quite powerful being only a 1.6litre engine.The  DF90 if im not mistaken is a 2litre engine,altough this makes the suzuki more torquey

[skip]

Petecraft will have to chime in here and let us know what kind of figures they get with the different engines they have fitted to their 17 model, however as I understand it the 17 is very beamy for her length so in theory would not make for a very fast hull, relative to another 17 foot boat with a narrower beam and different hull characteristics. Now I'm no hull designer and I know it's all rather complicated, deadrise, chines, reverse chines, lifting strakes etc.....so I may have over simplified it somewhat.

On a beamy hull/heavy boat you will ought to be considering a stainless steel propeller......aluminium props flex under load as you accelerate and potentially even in the mid-range.

SteveGB has a Yamaha 100 on a Ranieri 17/18 so it would be interesting to see what performance numbers he gets.....

Gaffer as you know I had experimented with quite a few props on my Gabry (expensive experiments).....if you want to get top end speed on tends to reduce diameter and increase pitch....the reduced diameter lets the prop spin up quicker (Mercury have some props with vents which allow just that), but it also means less drag so more potential top speed at the sacrifice of the mid-range and perhaps even the holeshot a bit too....remember its the blade surface area that largely contributes to bearing the load of the boat underway.

A prop heavily optimised for a mid-range cruise will have elephant ear style blades and be of a larger diameter than a prop optimized for speed (Examples from Evinrude are their Stainless Steel Rebel for mid-range, or their Viper for speed, still okay in the mid-range but not as good).

I ran a Viper 17 on my 225 ETEC and got my best top end speed just shy of 42 knots with canopies down, but I had a lousy mid-range cruise in terms of Economy and Speed, the Rebel 17 was too much blade area and pitch, and I was below my WOT so in the end I opted for the Rebel 15 which gave me the same mid-range cruise economy as the 17, but within WOT specs and a top end speed just shy of 40 knots (39.8knots).....I'm not really bothered about top end speed, it's my mid range economy that interests me the most in my case.

I ought to also point out that one could have two Petecraft 17's with identical engines, load etc but set them up completely differently....this would be done with the engine mounting height and prop style, material and pitch. If you want top end speed you're going to raise the engine up higher than the norm, run a prop that is designed to run closer to the surface and then you're going to be able to dial in the best top speed, but at the sacrifice of some stability and possible blow out issues in tight turns etc.

[The_Gaffer]

It was only fair that having read the most interesting of debates here, and being out of the debate as I do not own either a Merc or an E-Tec, I asked RLR to provide a comment on this thread.  This is what I recieved from the Managing Director of RLR

"As far as BRP Evinrude Distributors, we are not willing to comment on Mercury or any other Outboard Manufacturer. We feel this is not a professional approach. However, should anyone need any advice or like to discuss Evinrude in any way, our doors are always open. Our aim is to keep our Customers happy with Service and Support as well as keep them on the water."
Darius Goodwin
Managing Director RLR


Anything else I say or add here is superfluous.

[baghira]

I have to add a comment to this thread..
I am a previous Maxxon/Tohatsu small dinghi owner which I never complained about, and now I own a zodiac with Johnson which is fantastic besides some minor probs.

We all know that Mecca is one of the most selling boat dealer on the island because of its competitive prices, and one can find a big variety from which to choose. We also know that nobody ever complains about his products since that he is selling some very good brands..
But I heard and witnessed several people, speaking bad about this supplier due to his very poor after sales service, so bad that I even think twice before buying a 'Boogie' costume from there. The problems I heard from very close friends of mine are varied, and I am not going here to mention them all, but all related to his service to customers..
So Mecca why don't you work harder on this issue! You know about it, cannot deny, so try to solve it.

On the other hand RLR also have some beautiful products but you have to pay good for them. You know that 4 litre of evinrude oil for my engine costed me a mere 60 euro (yes 4 stroke motor oil with no specs. written), and a simple zodiac drain plug something near 30 euro! And they work with a mechanic (at least on small boats like mine) which will take you ages to find and make an appointment with and is paid like a doctor. A friend of mine also purchased a brand new Evinrude etec, and with all the trouble and hassle it gave him in the 1st month he had to be refunded back. Now he is very happy with a New 4 stroke suzuki. At least the after sales at RLR was good. But RLR I think you also have something to work hard on....

[digger0579]

I do not agree with the above quote "Not all engines are good for the same boat".  Its not the engine that matters, its the combination of prop size, pitch, and weight ratio.  You need to match the prop specs to the boat characteristics.

@Nick - I once came with you on the Eagle one, an 18' Gabry if I'm not mistaken, we were 4 persons, 2 heavys (you and Simon) and me and another guy same weight as I.  Eagle one was powered by a Tohotsu 90HP, and flat out we did 28.8Knots.  Now we have it here that the Ranieri, with a 115 Etec, reached a speed of 33knots.  Then we read that the Petecraft 17 with a Suzuki 90HP maxed out at 31Knots. Somehow the maths doesn't add up, especially with a Ranieri.

Thats what My friend told me and thats what I saw on my Petecraft sport with new antifauling. I guess that without antifauling it would do 2-3 knots more (in good sea weather conditions).

I was told that the DF90 from Suzuki  has power as a normal 115 and I think they are not kiding. today after 4 months in teh seaand with quite a load of sea grass and other stuff stuke to the hull, GPS reading goes from 24 to 25.6 knots flat out.

[digger0579]

I do not agree with the above quote "Not all engines are good for the same boat".  Its not the engine that matters, its the combination of prop size, pitch, and weight ratio.  You need to match the prop specs to the boat characteristics.

@Nick - I once came with you on the Eagle one, an 18' Gabry if I'm not mistaken, we were 4 persons, 2 heavys (you and Simon) and me and another guy same weight as I.  Eagle one was powered by a Tohotsu 90HP, and flat out we did 28.8Knots.  Now we have it here that the Ranieri, with a 115 Etec, reached a speed of 33knots.  Then we read that the Petecraft 17 with a Suzuki 90HP maxed out at 31Knots. Somehow the maths doesn't add up, especially with a Ranieri.

Well gaffer,

I used to think that and on paper it should be like tha but I saw occasions that same engine on different boats perform different (standard options installed.) if you have to stay changing prop it's quite expensive matter so we all try to go for the engine which performs better on the boat as much as possible.