Max Drag

maltembu · December 23, 2008, 08:59:30 CET

Guys could you help me out with this one pls ?

What is exactly a max drag of a reel ?

What is the difference between a max drag, a max drag at strike and a max drag at strike with freespool ?

From what i could gather it is the force of the reel that can exert on the line.. thus the fish. But the again i'm sure there is much much more to it..

The_Gaffer · December 23, 2008, 10:32:56 CET

This all depends on the reel specification.
I would suggest that before understanding this phrase, you think about drag systems and their usage. Here is some very informative reading bythe great Peter Pakula.
http://www.pakula.com.au/BTL/Docs/0203_Reels.html
Following this, read this http://www.pakula.com.au/BTL/Docs/0401_Setting_the_Drag.html

Now for the grand finale http://www.pakula.com.au/BTL/Docs/0402_The_Reel_Drag.html

This should answer all you questions

Jonathan · December 23, 2008, 11:04:02 CET

Great link Joe! That's a very interesting read - thanks

joe · December 23, 2008, 19:56:52 CET

tal genn xtahseb

maltembu · December 24, 2008, 11:32:50 CET

Thanks for those fantastic links joe

Have i understood correctly if i state that :

(A) if a max drag at strike is rated at for example 30lbs then the max line breaking strain class used can be up to 90lbs, and fish of up to 300lbs can be handled ?

(B) a max drag is the full drag that can be exerted, which would be around two thirds of the line breaking strain ?

The_Gaffer · December 24, 2008, 12:07:22 CET

Yes, the theory is that you set your drag to one third of the line breaking rate at strike.

skip · December 24, 2008, 12:51:48 CET

What I liked most out of the article because I didn't know the theory, was that whilst the strike position should be 1/3 line rating, and that's where you usually put the drag when trolling, it stated that if you don't expect to be catching large fish you should reduce your drag when trolling down to 10% of the estimated fish weight you are targeting. So a 10kgs Alungi you would set to 1kg and mark it accordingly on the reel. That's something I definately want to do, find some good quality printable labels and mark up 0.5kgs, 1kgs and 2kgs markers so I know what I'm setting. You then also know your reference for strike which here in Malta we usually move up to once we've got the fish on and the hook set.

shanook · December 24, 2008, 17:05:13 CET

thats why i like lever drag reels. U can set the strike exactly and then just ease off with the lever although i dont really bother to ease off i just leave the drag on the strike and take it from there. Ramio likes to keep the drag set light and lets the fish make a run. On the contrary i like to keep a max strike drag on and just see the rod bend double and make the fish turn.
Skip although u are targeting a 10Kg alunga i wouldnt set the drag on 1kg that is if u dont want to empty the reel and take more time to bring the fish alongside. When fishing for alungi or any fish for that matter u has to make the best of the fishing time window.

skip · December 25, 2008, 20:22:58 CET

I tend to fish like Ramio as you have described it, I prefer to keep my drag set light and let the fish make a run which gives me time to get on the reel, wait a few seconds in case there are other strikes and then slow down etc. I found with the drag on std strike, the hookup rate was lower suggesting one was ripping the hook out.

When we had tried going trolling for swords we had reset all our drags with a drag scale to try and get it just right, but we didn't have any strikes!!!

ramio · December 26, 2008, 17:00:04 CET

I ones read an article about swordfish set up. The Guy had line going out of reel with a 20-30m loop then hooked on to a realease clip placed aft. From here there was a second loop of 20m then on to another realease clip on the outrigger, from there to the lure.
The idea was that the swordfish first strikes the bait with its blade to injure it, then circles back to swallow the injured fish at ease. With this setup, the outrigger clip is set very light, so coming off with the first strike, the loose gives the temporarily hesitation of the bait as if injured. when the fish comes round to swallow it will find lure easier to swallow resulting in a better hook up.
This explains why most hook ups of sword fish are from their blade. A better and more exciting way to do it is to have a large loop from the reel in the water (say20-30m) and hold line in your hand. Once you feel the gentle playing on the lure you let go and slow down the boat. When the fish starts taking line from the reel which is left with a very low drag, drag is adjusted to strike position, and you strike.
Many a time when we used to fish with hand lines, I used to feel the playing with the lure but never realised it was a swordfish. That's when an experienced fisherman friend of mine told me to keep 30m of line on the deck and release when this was felt to mimick the bait being injured.

ramio · December 26, 2008, 17:04:22 CET

One draw back I found when using the first (clip) methode, was that I could never set the 1st clip light enough as I usually have the lure way out behind the boat. This applies a lot of pull on clip so keeps setting off even with swell pull.
I prefere the line in hand in the second option when I know there are swords about.

maltembu · December 31, 2008, 13:43:52 CET

Quote from: skip on December 24, 2008, 12:51:48 CET
whilst the strike position should be 1/3 line rating, and that's where you usually put the drag when trolling, it stated that if you don't expect to be catching large fish you should reduce your drag when trolling down to 10% of the estimated fish weight you are targeting.

Skip i just read that fish weigh 10% in water of what they weigh on land, i guess that's why max drag should not be more than 10% of the weight of the fish being targeted.. and why big fish are caught on lines with break strains much less than that of fish's weight..

The_Gaffer · December 31, 2008, 14:15:30 CET

exactly maltembu. There is also the fighting ability of the rod which has to be considered too. All these factors contribute to what is called fishing on light tackle.

shanook · December 31, 2008, 14:27:38 CET

the drag has nothing to do with the fish being caught or targetted. Its the line u are using which makes the difference. If u are targetting alungi (approx weight 6 to 24 kg {12lb to 53lbs}). Sour draq would be 10lbs and ur max drag would go to 24lbs. dont forget u are targetting a max of 53lbs fish. u will still hold the bigger fish on that line it will take u longer to bring to ship side thats all. If u use a 60lbs line then ur drag will be 20lbs and max drag of 48lbs. This will be easier to bring the fish in quicker. And i can assure u that with a drag of around 30lbs (12kg) u bring an alunga really quick in, apart from the initial run.
to really have fun try to get a 20lbs line and see what happens. use a leader with a lighter line set up as just by scraping on the skin it will get cut.

Happy fishing

skip · December 31, 2008, 16:45:05 CET

Tony the issue about the drag in realtion to the fish was to do with how you set your trolling strike position not in relation to the overall set up of the reel (max drag etc). You said you like to run a factory std heavy drag strike point, but Peter Pakula is suggesting that one set's up the position between 0 and strike at 10% of the targeting fish weight and to mark that position on the lever drag to help guide you with coming up with a good amount of drag to have the fish set the hook etc.

I personally don't agree at all with having my reel set all the way up to the std factory strike position and leaving it there when trolling. It's fine when using lighter/cheaper reels, but I assure you that a decent reel like the Penn 30V, 50V or one of the Tiagra would show up a flaw in that method by exerting too much pressure when setting the hook on the type of fish we get here. If you compare the drag pessures at strike and max of various 30lbs class reels you would see a huge variation. If you know that the fish you are targeting have strong mouths and won't pull a hook with a large amount of initial pressure fair enough, but I personally prefer to err on the side of caution or at least know the capabilities of your reels well.

The drag pressure exerted by my Okuma Titus Gold 50II Wide (Okuma's flagship reel) comes no where close to that of my Penn 50VW and even a bit less than the Penn 30VW I have. So sometimes working on the reel rating is misleading because cheaper reels won't manage to achieve anywhere close to 24lbs of sustained drag pressure at max drag, that's where paying for a good reel comes up trumps. On the cheaper reels you'd probably find you're better off loading them with lower rated good quality mono in order to be able to get more line on the reel. Most Senators for example can exert a maximum of 21-24bs of drag presure (Models 114-115) respectively, which is why the 115 has such a large line capacity to help counter this.

This all being said for the fish we come across locally excluding the occasional monster at a fishfarm we really don't need to be worrying about having anything more than 20lbs of max drag, so my flashy Penn's are pretty pointless in that respect!!

Which I suppose proves The_Gaffer's choice of why he fishes with 40lbs line and nothing more, simply utilising a bit of additional insurance by using Momoi Diamond which will break at around 70lbs unlike most other mono's.