Apnea safety and technique seminar

spearerr · April 27, 2009, 21:35:46 CET

thanks skip for the help cause people tend to misunderstand things! thanks again

spearerr · April 29, 2009, 14:50:40 CET

kulhadd jista tikteb li jrid lapsiboy, il problema taf xhini li ma hawn hadd li jaf jaqra u jifhem xejn!

LapsiBoy · April 29, 2009, 15:14:30 CET

Le sihbi imma nahseb hawn min jiprova jiftahlek ajnejk

issa fuq kollox ma nafx jin

spearerr · April 29, 2009, 15:23:31 CET

ijja mela mela.... habib kun af laffarijjiet lewwel isma minni

Aquatica · April 29, 2009, 21:27:52 CET

Following the several and continued posts regarding the Aquatica Apnea Courses / Seminars / programs (call them what you want) we feel it?s time to answer the many comments that have been posted about these issues and also others that were intentionally added to this thread by some very specific individuals in an attempt to discredit our operation and reputation due to their hidden agendas.

Even if the initial subject posted by Spearerr was intended to find out if any persons were interested to join an Apnea Seminar the subsequent replies referred to Apnea Academy courses.

Emic: Please tell me, when did we ever tell you that you were attending an AA course and that you would get a certification ?? Do you want to come back and have a better look at the forms you filled at the time and show me where is apnea academy mentioned ??

It?s clear here that allot of persons have misunderstood (if not intentionally wanted to misunderstand) the simple fact that the courses we offered and are still being offered are not an Apnea Academy sanctioned course. In fact upon booking and starting the course all students were aware of the fact that at the end of the sessions there would have been no certificate from Apnea Academy issued and even though they were told this they have anyway decided to proceed.

Due to the fact that we were the first to introduce Apnea Academy in Malta and our close collaboration through several years we are easily associated with them.

Even Emic & Buddhagrass who attend these seminars/courses both knew that they would not get an Apnea Academy certificate and they anyway attended the apnea sessions. Why did they attended the sessions if they knew this from the start ?? Why is this whole issue now being called into question ??

The registration forms that all participants filled in at the start of the apnea sessions had no Apnea Academy logo or anything about it mentioned in them so they knew it very well. Anybody who wants to check these forms can easily come to our shop or contact us personally to view first hand. We prefer not to post a copy of one of these registration forms since it would go against privacy issues.

Buddhagrass: Yes, We also started calling these Apnea seminars and not courses so that nobody could have the excuse of misunderstanding. Why now you also want to be sarcastic because we are try to be very clear ??

Lapsiboy: U mhux ahjar ma noqodux noqomsu hafna?? Jaqaw Emic ma qallekx illi irid ikollok 18 il sena biex ikollok harpoon ?? taf ghal xiex qed nighd hux ;-)

I think that some persons on this forum like to give advice and also look good in front of everybody but then they all have their own hidden skeletons, so lets not just start speaking too much ??

The same persons who are having doubts about how useful these lessons are can come and view the forms on which the participants write some information about their performance in Apnea before starting the lessons such as time in Static Apnea. It is surprising to see that the vast majority of participants actually more than double their time by the end of the lessons. Again these forms were field and signed by the participants so information that can confirmed.

All the students that came attending these lessons did so because they had a genuine interest in learning to freedive properly and staying safe. It also good to mention that there are few persons in Malta that have an experience in this sport as Chris Borg Cardona who has not only been freediving and spearfishing locally for over 30years but also has several international achievements making him a very knowledgeable about this subject.

Just in case you are wondering what experience and background Chris Borg Cardona has here are some of his achievements through the years.

Chris has been the Malta Champion in the Underwater Fishing for.

1987,1988,1989, 1994 , 1996, 1997,
1993 ( 2nd )

Sportive Nazonali for 1987, 1990, 1993 , 1999.

1978 F.U.A.M Technisub & Carreras Cup Junior ( Monica & Chris ) 2nd Place
1987 Malta Spearfishing championship Spon. By Ducas Jewellery 3rd Place
1987 Istanbul Turkey Participated Underwater Fishing World Championship
1988 XXIII Gran Premio Villa Carlos Spain
1988 F.U.A.M Malta Championship 1st Place
1989 F.U.A.M Malta Championship           1st Place
1990 F.U.A.M Cressi Sub Cup     1st Place
1990 F.U.A.M Mares Cup        1st Place
1990 F.U.A.M Scubapro Cup        1st Place
1991.F.U.A.M Ducas Cup
1991 Nord Cipro Participated in the 1st Underwater Fishing Championships Nov.
1992 Nord Cipro K.K.T.C Participated in the friendly UnderWater Fishing Competition
1992 Palermo Coppa Europe 5th Place
1992 Modal Spain Participated in world cup (Caption of Malta Team )
1993 A.S.D.C Championship               2nd Place
1993 A.S.D.C Scubapro Competition 1st Place
1993 A.S.D.C Dive Med Competition 1st Place
1993 A.S.D.C SporaSub Competition 1st Place
1993 A.S.D.C Club Diver of the Year
1993 A.S.D.C Jolly Roger Competition 2nd Place
1994 A.S.D.C Championship 1st Place
1994 A.S.D.C OmerSub Cup 1st Place
1994 A.S.D.C Scubapro Competition 1st Place
1995 A.S.D.C Biggest Catch of the Year
1995/96 A.S.D.C Omer Cup 1st Place
1996/97 Malta Skin Diving Club Biggest Catch of the Year
1996/97 Malta Skin Diving Club Championship 1st Place
1996/97 Malta Skin Diving Club Scubapro Cup 2nd Place
1997 Cagliari Gruppo Sportivo Albatrus Trofeo della Nazione 28/31 Maggio 3rd Place
1997 Cagliari Gruppo Sportivo Albatrus Trofeo della Nazione 28/31 Maggio Best Fish

1997/98 Malta Skin Diving Club Malta Championship 1st Place
1997/98 Malta Skin Diving Club OmerSub Cup 1st Place
1997/98 Malta Skin Diving Club Scubapro Cup 1st Place
1997/98 Malta Skin Diving Club Club Diver of the Year
1997/98 Malta Skin Diving Club Winter Trophy 1st Place
1997/98 Malta Skin Diving Club Biggest Catch of the Year
1997/98 Fr. J. Sultana Trophy 1st Place
1998 Malta Skin Diving Club SporaSub Cup 2nd Place
1998 / 1999 Malta Skin Diving Club Winter Trophy      1st Place
1999 Palermo Coppa continetale di Pesca Club Nautico Solunto 25/9 3rd Place
1999 Malta Skin Diving Club League 1st Place
1999 Malta Skin Diving Club Valentine Cup 1st Palce
1999 Malta Skin Diving Club Biggest Catch of the year
1999 Malta Skin Diving Club Scubapro Cup 3rd Place
1999 Malta Skin Diving Club Re Del Pesce cup 2nd Place
1999 Malta Skin Diving Club SporaSub Cup 1st Place
1999 Malta Skin Diving Club Club Diver of the Year
1999 Malta Skin Diving Club Malta Championship 1St Place
2000 Malta Skin Diving Club Malta Championship 1St Place
2000 Malta Skin Diving Club Re Del Pesce cup 1st Place
2000 Malta Skin Diving Club ( Season Biggest Fish )
2000 Malta Skin Diving Club ( Season Biggest Catch )
2000 Malta Skin Diving Club Winter Trophy 1st Place
2000 Malta Skin Diving Club Subacqua Supplies cup 2nd Place
2000 Malta Skin Diving Club Biggest Catch of the Year
2002 1st Champions League Greece   4th Place
2003 2nd Champions League Greece
2003 1st Libya spearfishing Competition
2003 Coppa Europe Santa Flavia as Team    2nd Place
2004 3rd Champions League Greece
2004 Aquatica Autumn Spearfishing Competition    1st Place
2004 Aquatica Autumn Spearfishing Competition          Biggest Catch
2005 4th Champions League Greece   4th Place
2006 5th Champions League Greece           2nd Place
2007 6th Champions League Greece
2007 Trident de Neptune Tunes (vetrens) Ist Place
2008 7th Champions League Greece            new fish cup.
2008 Malta Skin Diving Club (Mares) 2nd Place
2008 Malta Skin Diving Club (Beuchat) 2nd Place

Free Diving Events

1998 Sardegna 2nd Free Diving World Championships S.Teresa Gallura 9th Place out of 24 Teams
Chris Constant weight 35Mt . Static Apnea 4.33min.

Under Photography
1991 Blue Dolphin of Malta Underwater Photography (Fish Hunt ) 2nd Place
1992 Blue Dolphin of Malta Underwater Photography (Fish Hunt ) 2nd Place
1992 Ustica Caccia Photo Sub internazionale Best Slide Ambient
1992 Ustica Caccia Photo Sub internazionale 4th Place
1993 Blue Dolphin of Malta Underwater Photography 1st place
1993 Blue Dolphin of Malta Underwater Photography Best Slide Ambient
1993 Blue Dolphin of Malta Underwater Photography Best Slide Macro

1993 F.U.A.M Malta Champships Photo Fish Hunt 2nd Place
1993 1st European ScubaDiving Photography for teams Cefalu? 18 Dec. 2nd Place
1993 1st Safari FotoSub dello dello Jonio Acitrezza 12 June 2nd Place
1994 2nd Safari FotoSub dello dello Jonio Acitrezza 11/6/94 1st Place
1994 1st Coppa Del Mondo Caccia FotoSub Milazzo13-17 /10/94 2nd Place
1994 1st Coppa Del Mondo Caccia FotoSub Milazzo Best Significant Slide
1995 3rd Safari FotoSub dello dello Jonio Acitrezza 1 / 7 / 95 1st Place

1997 3rd Trofeo Internazionale di Caccia Foto Sub Palermo 30/9-5/10 3rd Place

1998 Campionato Europeo di tiro al Bersaglio Subacque Coni Italy ( Per Nazione) 5th Place

busumark · April 29, 2009, 21:44:09 CET

if it was clear from the begining that at the end of the course there would be no certificate no-one can complain but if it wasnt clear or written in very small print (like a lot of companies do) than yes they can complain and tell others to pay more attention than they did for what is being offered. if it was clear than why did you change it from courses to seminars ? ? ? if someone wants to get an international recognised certificate the only way that he can get is by attanding a course by a certified instructor. any other person that is not a certified instructor cant give him that certificate no matter how much experience he might have. he can teach him a lot of things but not a recognised certificate

Aquatica · April 29, 2009, 21:58:41 CET

Busumark come have a look at the forms all participants filled in and signed and then tell me if you can see any AA mentioned anywhere, you are more then welcome to come and check them out yourself. As we said we cannot post them due to privacy reasons.

Aquatica · April 29, 2009, 22:05:58 CET

And just another thing i would like to add to what you said busumark..... this whole issue is simply being used as a marketing tool for some other person's hidden agendas and not for the reasons you see mentioned in this thread. As you can imagine there are many versions to a story and some individuals will distort this to their own advantage. Now we have given our reasons and everything can be verfied first hand if you wish.

bigboy · April 29, 2009, 22:22:21 CET

Lapsiboy: U mhux ahjar ma noqodux noqomsu hafna?? Jaqaw Emic ma qallekx illi irid ikollok 18 il sena biex ikollok harpoon ?? taf ghal xiex qed nighd hux ;-)

100 points mate

Kulhadd irid jider umbad jamel min taht

busumark · April 29, 2009, 22:26:59 CET

always check with the salesman what are the services offered and tell him to explain everything clearly. if there is the need ask him more than once about somehting that is not very clear to you and that maybe you need that specific service and explain better. and always agree about the price before because you might end with a big surprise afterwards like i did when i didnt agree the price before with a meccanic to get my car fixed

Granitu · April 29, 2009, 23:06:50 CET

in a nutshell, anyone can take a seminar, a seminar is not a course, sure.

Chris is an excellent apnesit for sure, he has a lot to offer but one has to admit that a seminar is given at a premium-not for free, and i don't expect to be given for free. if i was to pay, i would pay proper persons who are qualified to do it even though i wouldn't mind to pay a guy like chris whom is a formidable apneist.

But, having qualified persons with some excellent guys that learned from umberto pelizzari, which surely has more years of experience of chris in my opinion. he is acclaimed the n.1 in the world and gave a lot to this sport. THAT IS THE ONLY REASON.

these people are up to date on the present techniques, qualified and prepared in the teaching aspect. i learned this lesson when i was trying to teach my buddy some basic techniques in the beginning, i found it really difficult to explain some things that i developed naturally.

they not only have the chris achievement but are qualified to teach. that is the only difference but in my opinion, it would have been healthier if the seminar was directed more in a spearfishing aspect-since we are all spearfisherman majorly here.

also on a final note. an apnea academy course requires a certain degree of competence from the apneist. an instructor, to begin the course requires:

static apnea of 4 minutes
dynamic apnea of 75m
constant weight freedive (with bi-fins) of 30m

i am talking from this aspect because i got near to spearfishing from freediving- i would not do more than 20metres but always self taught and sometimes i went in big dangers, especially with the equalization technique and the progression to depth, which i did it in a fast and hazardous way. i was lucky, many were not. and the problem was always knowledge...

Buddhagrass · April 30, 2009, 09:34:28 CET

Quote from: Aquatica on April 29, 2009, 21:27:52 CET

Even Emic & Buddhagrass who attend these seminars/courses both knew that they would not get an Apnea Academy certificate and they anyway attended the apnea sessions. Why did they attended the sessions if they knew this from the start ?? Why is this whole issue now being called into question ??

Have I ever mentioned in any thread or to someone else that I was expecting any AA certificate ? I don't think so but the honest truth is that I didn't really enjoy the pool sessions. I never even complained about the fully certified AA instructor thing mentioned over here so please don't get me mixed up with anyone else. I always knew about Chris being a very good freediver/spearfisher and that was the reason I decided to proceed in taking the Apnea Course @ Aquatica. At that time we were told that we were going to attend our pool sessions @ National Pool Complex Tal-Qroqq which I thought it was great knowing the pool is big and spacious but unfortunately, when we all met up at Aquatica shop to attend our first session, we all got to know that we were going to a different pool which for obvious reasons I am not going to mention where. Long story short we all ended up clustered in a small, filthy indoor hotel pool with a very irregural shape making it really difficult to do the dynamic apnea excersices. I am not representing anyone else overhere but only giving MY honest opinion. I can only comment about the pool sessions because back then I had to quit the Apnea course for some personal reasons. I must also say that Aquatica gave me a full refund for the remaining sessions without any problems at all. Although the pool itself was horrible some good advise, techniques, hints and tips were taught to us directly from Chris himself.

Seahunter · April 30, 2009, 09:52:45 CET

Quote from: Buddhagrass on April 30, 2009, 09:34:28 CET
Quote from: Aquatica on April 29, 2009, 21:27:52 CET

Even Emic & Buddhagrass who attend these seminars/courses both knew that they would not get an Apnea Academy certificate and they anyway attended the apnea sessions. Why did they attended the sessions if they knew this from the start ?? Why is this whole issue now being called into question ??

Have I ever mentioned in any thread or to someone else that I was expecting any AA certificate ? I don't think so but the honest truth is that I didn't really enjoy the pool sessions. I never even complained about the fully certified AA instructor thing mentioned over here so please don't get me mixed up with anyone else. I always knew about Chris being a very good freediver/spearfisher and that is the reason I decided to proceed in taking the Apnea Course @ Aquatica. At that time we were told that we were going to attend our pool sessions @ National Pool Complex Tal-Qroqq which I thought it was great knowing the pool is big and spacious but unfortunately, when we all met up at Aquatica shop to attend our first session, we all got to know that we were going to a different pool which for obvious reasons I am not going to mention where. Long story short we all ended up clustered in a small, filty indoor hotel pool with a very irregural shape making it really difficult to do the dynamic apnea excersices.

I can say the same. Also we were 5 friends doing the course in 2007. We done the first 3 sessions, but the the rest kept being postponed and postponed and postponed. Last August one of us was notified that we were going to continue after the 15th, but still nothing happened.
That means that up till now, half the money we paid was for nothing. I never said anything here before, waiting that things will get moving some time or other but still I was waiting in vain

EmicMalta · May 01, 2009, 01:18:32 CET

Quote from: Seahunter on April 30, 2009, 09:52:45 CET
Quote from: Buddhagrass on April 30, 2009, 09:34:28 CET
Quote from: Aquatica on April 29, 2009, 21:27:52 CET

Even Emic & Buddhagrass who attend these seminars/courses both knew that they would not get an Apnea Academy certificate and they anyway attended the apnea sessions. Why did they attended the sessions if they knew this from the start ?? Why is this whole issue now being called into question ??

Have I ever mentioned in any thread or to someone else that I was expecting any AA certificate ? I don't think so but the honest truth is that I didn't really enjoy the pool sessions. I never even complained about the fully certified AA instructor thing mentioned over here so please don't get me mixed up with anyone else. I always knew about Chris being a very good freediver/spearfisher and that is the reason I decided to proceed in taking the Apnea Course @ Aquatica. At that time we were told that we were going to attend our pool sessions @ National Pool Complex Tal-Qroqq which I thought it was great knowing the pool is big and spacious but unfortunately, when we all met up at Aquatica shop to attend our first session, we all got to know that we were going to a different pool which for obvious reasons I am not going to mention where. Long story short we all ended up clustered in a small, filty indoor hotel pool with a very irregular shape making it really difficult to do the dynamic apnea excersices.

I can say the same. Also we were 5 friends doing the course in 2007. We done the first 3 sessions, but the the rest kept being postponed and postponed and postponed. Last August one of us was notified that we were going to continue after the 15th, but still nothing happened.
That means that up till now, half the money we paid was for nothing. I never said anything here before, waiting that things will get moving some time or other but still I was waiting in vain

this issue was raised after me having a small problem with aquatica about some service.

When I was reading all the Chris has been the Malta Champion. I know about your spearfishing technique and experience but i thought that this list was referring to our list, who did not finished the course for what we paid (as seahunter mentioned), and this list is so long as no one can belive. Names like j... s...m..... m.... d....m.... m.... e.... etc...... It is a long list so I would n t like to end all the stories cos for sure could nt end it.

Aquatica, I don t know who is writing in your behave in this forum but if you want that I stop it here, I can tell you that this is my end in this story. Everyone knows everyone, so If you would like to cancel this pic pls send me a pm. I have noting personal so pls don't include me with others. As you may know, I had always said what I thing, maybe I dont know to read English or Italian but this is what I had found lately today in this link http://www.scubadivingmalta.com/it/apnea_c.htm (ps. wish there will be no change in the web

)

one can see the adress where we had paid our money for. Can you conferm pls if we had made any mistake or maybe as I said we he read this in the wrong way.

as I said with this I will conclude, cos looks like this issue was forwarded personally to me but like this I had showed my point of view for what I had paid and saw websites changing.

NB. Lapsiboy: U mhux ahjar ma noqodux noqomsu hafna?? Jaqaw Emic ma qallekx illi irid ikollok 18 il sena biex ikollok harpoon ?? taf ghal xiex qed nighd hux ;-
Your job is to sell harpoons and mine t give advice

Have fun guys and dive safe like always.

Aquatica · May 01, 2009, 17:06:19 CET

I am very happy to see that there was a great response with different points of view from many members and this is what we were hoping for. For us to improve and provide an even better service we will need your opinions and some times if needed "constructive" criticism, so can move in the right direction.

We would like to point out a few things regarding the various posts, we are mentioning the members by name not because we have something personal but just so that our comments can be linked directly to the comment that each member made so there will be no misunderstandings. Please do not try to read in between the lines for any hidden meaning because we just want to make things very clear and don't take our opinions or posts on a negative aspect, it is not our intention.

Buddhagrass: regarding the pool we understand your point of view however you need to keep in mind that our aim is always to go to the National Pool. What you mentioned was a case where that day the choices were two 1) cancel the session because the National Pool was fully booked, or 2) go to another pool and make the most out of that day.

Now you will say "why don't you book the pool in advanced" - correct i agree - and that's what we always try to do but do you have an idea of how many times we had to postpone the sessions ?? this was due to various reasons - not just one - however many times we would get to know that half of the participants were not coming because of various emergencies on work or other personal things. Now maybe you are not aware of the fact that the pool must be booked in advance and booking of the lanes is against payment. So what do you do if the session gets cancelled for any reason ? would you prefer to lose that money you spent on the booking of the lanes ??

For us we would prefer to use the national pool, but if we don't know till the last minute if the participants can attend, we cannot reserve the lanes and this puts us in a very difficult position. We also had other occasions where we had booked the lanes and just a day before or so, the Pool reception phones us to tell us that they will cancel our booking because there will be a water polo training session (and we were not informed from before of this) the same day. So really as you can see there are many reasons why these things happen and we simply have to improvise.

I would also like to point out that at the national pool you are always asked to pay for the use of the lanes while the hotel pool was free of charge. Plus the state of the pool was also noted and even if it is not our competence to keep and maintain the pool we have ourselves complained with the Hotel management about it, so don't assume that we were happy about it either.

Taking into account your statement we will consider in the future various ways to prevent this from happening. However some times things just don'tturn out the way we want and the best is to have a team effort from both the participants and organizers.

Seahunter: Yes we are aware that are some persons that for various reasons did not finish all lessons. In fact we would like to invite all those that have not completed all the sessions to contact us so that they can do so.

Granitu: I agree totally that if not all but most of the participants are spearos (and can confirm this because it is one of the questions listed in our questionnaire for the participants attending the lessons) and you simply would like to know more about spearfishing more specifically. However we have always focused more on the safety aspect of the freediving than fishing itself. As you said yourself many persons start spearfishing and go through big dangers simply because they do not know the fundamental rules and safety precautions when practicing this sport. We were sometimes shocked to know that some persons didn't even know how (or even worse, don't know that they should) equalize their ears when diving and this has reinforced our idea that the first step is to learn to freedive well and safely - catching fish can be done later.

Emic: I am not surprised at all by your sarcasm but if you think that by saying that you have nothing personal towards us makes you look better in front of the other members of the forum I'm sure it's not the case because as you said yourself everybody knows everybody so we "all know" what's going on here.

During my last post i have made you a direct question and you did not reply to it. I also invited anybody to come and check the registration forms to see if ANYONE can find the the words Apnea Academy anywhere. Even if we had the AA logo and information about their courses on the website, did we tell you, you were going to attend an AA course with certification at the end when you came to book at the shop ?? - I'm sure that you have asked more information before confirming your attendance. I think you should really take the advise of Busumark

"always check with the salesman what are the services offered and tell him to explain everything clearly. if there is the need ask him more than once about somehting that is not very clear to you and that maybe you need that specific service and explain better. and always agree about the price before because you might end with a big surprise afterwards like i did when i didnt agree the price before with a meccanic to get my car fixed"

As for the website, we have taken this occasion to modify some information since it might have been considered as misleading.

Because we sell harpoons we know what the law says and we can write that comment, in your case, a good way how you can impress the other members of the forum is by giving for once in a while an advise just for the benefit of the others not just for a personal interest.

Talking about advises....... let's make a little quiz for all the members: Can anyone guess what brand of harpoon does Lapsiboy has ?? ;-)

Finally i would like to say that Aquatica is present on the forum to address issues that arise, inform members about our version/point of view and collaborate for the well being of the forum and safety of all it's members.

I do not intend to send you ANY PM EMIC if i have some thing to say it will be public, why should i send you a PM??

Apnea safety and technique seminar

bigboy