FAD ethics

[shanook]

100% correct mellieha, i am presuming that this conversation is revolving round the fads layed down by the clubs or fads laid by the amateur fisherman. There is no excuse whatsoever to use fads that dont belong or u dont have permission to use, even more so on commercial ones as they are the bread and butter of the fisherman

[bigboy]

Mellieha i agree with you 100%

[skip]

You're right Mellieha but commercial fishermen are hardly stellar examples of people who uphold the law!! In fact they are well known for breaking the law in as many ways as possible, just like recreational fishers do. Of course I am making a big generalisation but still we all know what goes on.

Two wrongs don't make a right etc etc, but just like we see illegal and undersized fish in the fish market, some might reason what goes around comes around hence have little respect for worrying about fishing on someone's cimi. Through people like Bigboy's posts and pictures we can get a better idea of the hard work, cost and effort that goes in to commercial fishing, something that probably most of us don't really appreciate, and this helps bridge the gap and mutual understanding. Some commercial fishermen blame recreational fishers for reduced catches as we like to blame them etc etc.

No one can disagree with what you wrote about the legal situation, though in my opinion however unpopular that may be, commercial fishermen cannot expect by right to have their cake and eat it, how and when they like. It's a fact that they are going to get people fishing on their cimi and it's impossible for them to police their cimi line, just like it is impossible for the AFM, CPD etc to police and monitor their fishing activities to ensure they are not breaking the law.

I believe that Stevea opened this topic to discuss the ethics behind fishing on a FAD that isn't yours, just about everyone knows it's illegal, so it boils down to morals and ethics something that tends to be thrown out the window very quickly when temptation arises.....ie You cannot see a vessel in sight and you notice a Cima full of lampuki although you have no right to fish on it....do you

a) Steer clear
b) go for it and catch as much as you can or
c) go relatively close and have a go.

That is the ethical/moral dilemma; I leave it up to each person to try and decide how they would react. In my humble opinion we lay far to many cimi around Malta, the last time I looked at a map that showed the cimi lines I was shocked and couldn't believe how many there were. True it wasn't a recent map but there is also an ethical/moral question that fits in that context, when one asks is one over fishing by deploying so many Cimi all around the island. Do some searches on the net and you won't find many other regions in the world that put down the amount of artifical FADs like we do here.

I wouldn't be surprised if one day soon, commercial fishing for Lampuki doesn't end up being regulated by some recovery plan.

[fisheye]

As I stated in my previous post in this topic the fads that I referred to are those laid legally by clubs. I believe this was made clear in my 1st post. As Mellieha said this is not the place where to talk about or encourage others to break the law.   

[ruman]

proset mellieha. mela ahna immorru nonfqu il flus biex niitfaw ir rimja, nihdu hsieba u kollox imbad jigi xi cuc u joqod idur quddiemek.kemm aw min hu arroganti.

[The_Gaffer]

I agree ruman

[mulett75]

I agree that it not right for sports fishermen fo and fish around the FAD of the professional fishermen. But I also disagree that professional fisherman fish with their net on FADs of the sports clubs. As you all know their are many clubs around Malta that they trow FADs "TA DELLETTANTI". I had a bad experience about 3 years ago where I was going out for Lampuki and met a professional fisherman trowing his net, at 4 in the morning around the fads of what is called ta delettanti.

As Skip said 2 wrong does not make one right

[bigboy]

Ruman bl MFC mhux sippost iddawwara laqqas ta sihbi

[mellieha]

I can understand what you mean skip but please be aware that there are people like me that only fish from boats.  This year I only a crew member on my cousins fishing boat but usually we lay fads together.

Skip, believe me or not In our area we are constantly shadowed.  We are policed by other fisherman who simply decide to copy what we do instead of think a system for themselves. We have a recognisable boat and so breaking the law is out of option willingly or unwillingly. 

Skip, you mentioned the issue of the interaction between recreational fisherman and commercial fisherman.  I think that there are around 10% of posts on this forum that grumble about commercial fisherman techniques being used to overexploit the sea bed.  Going on the fad of commercials is exploiting their 'assets' and commercials that break the law are bad as equal or more.

We maltese have the culture to grumble about other.  'You cannot find fish ashore because it is eaten (Mikul)'.  the same people (rec or comm) usually exploit an area and then go to other areas.  This is what we have to change. 

I am not against clubs laying fads but does someone honestly think that 5 boats will remain  on the same fad line?  Will they not jump fads??  I leave to everybodys conscience to answer.

Thanks

Ad

Mellieha

[busumark]

mellieha you are right in saying that sport fisherman shouldnt go on comercial fisherman fad but you are wrong in saying that they should nt lay some fads themselves because they wont stay only on them. if you reason like this the only way to stop boats going on comercial fads is for the government to ban the use of boats during the lampuki season

[stevea]

I can't understand all the posts here .... it seems everyone agrees and states that no way will they approach FADs that belong to other boats (pls note that obviously ppl that lay Fads can also target other ppls Fads). Is it possible that all the boats I see on the Fads,,,, all the speedboats, cabin crusisers, open boats etc etc are not members of this forum!!! Then I am an exception!
As Skip said, I just wanted to possibly come up with some issues relating to this topic as we have to understand the effects of our actions. Mellieha... my mistake to generalizing that nets are used at night (you must really be the exception for netting during daytime as this is very ineffecient).
It is exactly for situations that Mellieha highlighted that I have opened this topic ..i.e. stupid ppl who approach your boat even knowing that you are trying to net the fish round your own FAD. Accordingly, some questions again:
1. Do you ever approach commercial FADs?
2. Do you limit yourself on the number of FADS you hit? What determines when you stop? Time! Fuel! Fishing! Being Prudent!
3. If you see a commercial boat on the lines, do you move away? Do you investigate? Do you run for your life?
4. If there is another boat on the FAD, do you go to the next one? Do you troll on the other side of the FAD?
5. Do you fish until you drop?
6. Do you think that amateur FADs are well positioned? Does anyone believe that on the East coast, amateur FADs are useful? (except for the first few weeks!)
7. Do commercial fisherman having a line of say 120 FADs believe that their first, say, 10 FADS will not be hit!
8. Do you troll from one FAD to another? or just speed up to hit a new FAD before the other boat!
etc etc

WITHOUT TRYING TO GIVE BIRTH TO A HURRICANE... CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT YOU SHOULD DO WHEN APPROACHING A LICENSED FAD? ARE YOU TO DRIVE A CERTAIN DISTANCE AWAY? WHAT DOES THE LAW SAY? DOES THE LAW GIVES A BLANKET CHEQUE ON THE OWNER OF THE FADS? I understand that there is a legal and morla obligation. Whatever the law says, I will not disrupt the livelihood of professional fisherman. However, it would be interesting to know what is legal and what is not. Maybe someone posting the claims can inform us.

[mellieha]

Stevea,

Saying that netting during the day is inefficient is a gross irregularity.  That is why my friend we are shadowed.  It is an art to round fads and driver and layer have to be in perfect harmony.  Netting at night has its advantages but also it minuses. 

There are some times of the day that having a big boat creates a big shadow in the water and allows the fish to find additionally shad and swim freely of the the dawra.  To the contrary small boats can still work.

The key word over here should be respecting each other. 

[shanook]

re  ethics of ONE commercial fisherman that i encountered. I used to lay my own fads (proffessional that is with the fisheries dept.) i was going to fish my fads when I found a Full time fisherman (MF) rounding my second fad with nets. I approached and radioed that those were my fads, the only answer i got was that out here its belongs to everybody, apart of course from swear words and Gun threathining.
Now u can say I should have reported him, right..........wrong he knew my boat I knew him by reputation so I just went on the next fad.......If i didnt all the fads would have been cut off , just like my friends, and i might not have my boat at the moment.
RESPECT...........yes i still respect other fisherman and I lay my own and go on the clubs fads.
Yes mulett they check all the fads on their way out if they find one with fish they net it. Even commercial fisherman fish on others fads they usually go out (knowing that the owner is anchored in harbour) on someones fads and return on thier own, this way they check two rimji not just theirs. These are known facts.

[Granitu]

if you see the commercial fisherman while fishing on his fads, i can tell u one thing..... RUN

don't risk out there, its cowboy's land or no mans land. AND SOME OF THE COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN, LIKE OTHER AMATEUR FISHERMAN, ARE ONES NOT TO MESS WITH...

[stevea]

Respect and prudence are key.
Anyone from the Fishing authorities here? Maybe they can tell us what the law states! .. am really curious now,,,,,