4-stroke 6 hp

Meccanic · December 23, 2009, 21:06:38 CET

Reference to all the above, many things are being said. We are here to work and to offer a reliable good aftersales service. From the number of outboards we are delivering annually, i am sure that there is always a % of customers that may need more attention than others. Very often they are new to boating and sometimes require a mere clarification. Whenever a new Outboard is installed by our installers, we always do a FREE sea trial to ensure safe and proper performance: Also all the delivery procedures are inspected. In such instances, any adjustments or settings are addressed and rectified by the mechanic/installer during this normal practise.

As some of you know, in November I got married. As soon as i returned to work, i immediately went online. As you all know, i have always contributed and submitted all the boats, ribs, outboard reports and promotions especially now after International Boats Shows where all the new 2010 models have been launched. I have always supported my clients' requests directly and also offer full supports online - through emails, this forum and others.

If i had a I Don't Care attitude, i would not have intervened to what is being said. Also i ensure that the best customer service is being offered by MECCA MARINE. While i study all what is said, i tend to learn and where positive, i like to address the problems. We are doing our utmost to support the Marine Industry in MALTA with the largest Quality Boats, Ribs, and Outboards under 1 roof.

Re Kaptan Junior - i thank him for the good reference as well as his comments re the TOHATSU MD50Hp TLDI. Yet he failed to mention that his brother had filled the fuel tank with 2 stroke fuel/oil mixture - Sample of which is still available at our premises. We supported him throughout to solve the issue.(twice for sea trials at Birzebbugia and later at our premises.) Why should we not get paid for our repairs and injector replacements? The TLDI Outboards are AUTOMIX and do not require premixing.

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I agree with The Guffer in his last post. I wish this is could be done in this way but MISUSE is never covered by any guarantee. If there is a manufacturing problem, the client is backed fully by the factory. Yet note that ALL TOHATSU OUTBOARDS are pre factory tested. The engines that "Fail" at the end user, have problems created through unauthorised medling by clients.

How can we react differently, if our mechanic had tested the TOHATSU MF6Hp engine and passed all standard requirements. The engine in question perfectly under all normal circumstance. Why should we supply another outboard if this is not faulty? All that was needed is a mere engine oil change. The Tohatsu MF6Hp is not meant to be used as a main engine on a 14ft boat for hours on end and without any servicing. Oils are consumables and these must be changed accordingly as per manual instructions.

It is very easy to criticize, and i accept full constructive criticism. The economic hard times are for all, profit margins are getting lower and lower and to survive is no mean feat. Better still to win for the 4th time the Best 2009 TOHATSU Best Market Share award makes MECCA MARINE stand out.

Yes these are praises, and i enjoy such awards. These are all thanks to our loyal satisfied clients who come back to us to repower their boat or upgrade. Many others recommend us and this is why we have managed to become one of the largest Role Players in the Marine Business. We also have many of these which make us proud. Yet we also have high expectations from some clients who, when not entirely satisfied grumble. When these come to my knowledge, yes i go out of my way to follow, conclude and see that the problem is rectified. Some others have a hidden commercial agenda, which i will not elaborate and leave all of you to decide.

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From my posts you see that i am very active in promoting our products - Shanakook & The Gaffer well said that the advert on the DRAGO 550 i used models to attract the attention. This is done by all advertising media.
I described the factory and provided general information re DRAGO BOATS.: - A Personal point of view of the factory visit i pay to all the suppliers. I boast that i have visited and met all the factories of the products we import from, including TOHATSU Factory in JAPAN, BAVARIA YACHT Factory in Germany etc etc. More trips will follow to Japan now.

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Big Boy, Kevin, Mundinu said that i did not open the showroom to them and did not want to show them the boats??? Probably you came during the break from 1pm till 3.30pm or after 7pm when we are closed????Am i so crazy to refuse a sale when we stock up with over 65 boats/ribs on display and not show you around? come on!

How can the same guys in the same sentence say that the finish of the boats is not satisfactory when they did not see any crafts? All the boats on display are RINA, ISO 9001 certified.

Any constructive criticism is accepted and we shall do our utmost to satisfy our esteemed customers needs especially after 45 years at your service. 1964-2009

skip · December 23, 2009, 21:41:00 CET

QuoteI wish this is could be done in this way but MISUSE is never covered by any guarantee. If there is a manufacturing problem, the client is backed fully by the factory. Yet note that ALL TOHATSU OUTBOARDS are pre factory tested. The engines that "Fail" at the end user, have problems created through unauthorised medling by clients.

This is a very very BIG, BOLD statement that I cannot ignore!! Misuse is not covered by warranty, TRUE, but needs to categorically be proven by the dealer with solid facts and tests (and if need be independant certification) to prove that there has been misuse. It cannot just be implied...'oh if it failed you must have screwed it up yourself'. If that was the case there would be no warranty department at Tohatsu! Engines that fail off the production line are of course removed and rebuilt, it's quality control and no manufacturer is perfect especially as certain components come from 3rd parties.

However I totally disagree that engines that fail at the end user are ALWAYS caused by the client!! That's total b***ocks to make such a sweeping statement, it may apply in some cases but not all the time!! I think you need to clarify that Nichol - Not even Tohatsu themselves would be in a position to stand by that statement.

Even the most prestigious brands have products that develop faults, and during the warranty period these are addressed and rectified as per the warranty conditions etc.

Apart from that, it's good to see a dealer taking an interest and providing his side of things along with other background information. Just remember that when you write something down, it's much easier for people to hold you to your word

busumark · December 23, 2009, 21:45:50 CET

QuoteQuote from meccanic 'How can we react differently, if our mechanic had tested the TOHATSU MF6Hp engine and passed all standard requirements. The engine in question perfectly under all normal circumstance. Why should we supply another outboard if this is not faulty? All that was needed is a mere engine oil change. The Tohatsu MF6Hp is not meant to be used as a main engine on a 14ft boat for hours on end and without any servicing. Oils are consumables and these must be changed accordingly as per manual instructions.'

Nichol i tought that you learnt the lesson that u dont treat customers like idiots after our conversation this morning. i was really begining to trust you. but now with this part that you wrote i take back all that i said good about you. we never said that we use the 6 hp as a main engine as a main engine he has another motor. the motor is used as auxiliary and used for trolling. yes it is used for periods of time say about 5 - 6 hours trolling but i tought that motors are made to be used especially the 4-strokes. who told you that it is working for hours on end without any servicing? i told you the last time he used it after he picked it up from you was for 5 hours trolling and the oil level from maximun went down to minimum. and that is only one incidence, the red light for oil level lit for 3 times in a year. how can you tell that all what was needed to fix the problem is an oil change if we are going to-morrow for the trial run. you told him to use thicker oil and when i told you that your mechanic told me that if the oil he is using supplied by you is in the manual you told me ok than if the my mechanic told so he knows what he is saying. dont change words now nichol you told me if the problem happens again after the trial run you will change the motor. its not impossible for a motor to be defective from the factory you even gave me one example. neither you nor the mechanic told me this morning that to solve the problem was simple as that just an oil change. why you told him to use thicker oil so that if the engine has a small leak with the thicker oil it wont happen and the motor seems ok? in a year i doubt it if he used the boat 10 times and from these 3 times the red light went on.
We see what happens to-morrow and i am looking forward for the explanation from your mechanic what the problem was and how he fixed it by simply changing oil.
this morning i didnt see any mechanic certificates and they should be at the showroom at all times. if they are still doing the courses say that cerificates will be issued when the mechanics pass their respective courses. and can you give more details about the award that you got and posted on the forum. like date and by whom you were given the award. by suzuki marine japan or suzuki marine europe the venue of the presentation or maybe some more photos of the event.
i was really begining to trust you after the conversation and the e-mails you sent me dont let me down nichol.as they say bad habits are hard to die

busumark · December 24, 2009, 08:13:58 CET

@ meccanic what oil change are you talking about. the last time that the motor was used for 5 hours and the oil level from maximum went down to minimum was after that the motor was picked up from you and you said that the oil was changed and my friend had to pay 25 euros. so it was new oil and your mechanic changed it.
and you told us to use thicker oil. we were using the tohotsu oil 15w 40 you gave him went he bought the motor. this type of oil is recommended in the manual. i already told you that your mechanic told me that it is good and you agreed with me. what made you change your mind from the morning to the evening. yesterday in the evening we phoned the mechanic to tell him at what time we were going to meet for the trial run and told him did you use the oil that we gave him because we had half a litre oil left from the one that nichol gave us. he told us no what i have is the same but it is better. we asked him but is it 15w 40 he told us yes. the SAME grade to the oil that we were using.
So nichol can you please explain where the oil change that solved the problem is? You have to answer so that the others will know. you just said a statement without giving the answer

benri · December 24, 2009, 08:18:18 CET

Dear Meccanic,
Awards in sales quantitis has nothing to do with customer satisfaction and after sales service. It's easy getting up there but now let's see how long you can mentain it. The game is about QUALITY not QUANTITY my friend.

Please allow me.....
A turkey was chatting with a bull.

'I would love to be able to get to the top of that tree' sighed the turkey, 'but I haven't got the energy.'
'Well, why don't you nibble on some of my droppings?' replied the bull. They're packed with nutrients.'

The turkey pecked at a lump of dung, and found it actually gave him enough strength to reach the lowest branch of the tree.

The next day, after eating some more dung, he reached the second branch.

Finally after a fourth night, the turkey was proudly perched at the top of the tree.

He was promptly spotted by a farmer, who shot him out of the tree.

Moral of the story:
Bull Sh*t might get you to the top, but it won't keep you there..

busumark · December 24, 2009, 08:27:33 CET

http://www.tohatsu.co.jp/en/boat/sales/recall.html

this is a recall from tohatsu. i will not search for others because one is enough to prove the point that what you said that all tohatsu motors are 100 % good and without defects and if something happens is because of misuse from the customer is pure B****T. What is a recall than? do you have a different explanation to it from that of the manufacturer ?

Meccanic · December 24, 2009, 08:50:32 CET

Dear Mark and ALL,
When there was a product recall re TOHATSU I was always the one to bring it to light even to this forum as Nick can confirm. I also called the clients effected personally and rectified all.

Re quality tests by Tohatsu - this was just an explanation. In no way did i want to mean that we are not backing any guarantee... Nick you know that the cable of Euro375 was readily off the shelf and immediately did my utmost to help you out and replaced it immediately. The boat manual i have at my office. I tackle isues and have them ready and over with. The TOHATSU recall issue did not effect our serial numbers and therefore we could not launch it to the Maltese market but we have in fact launched it to the Greek Market where we sell engines too.

I confirm that if the defect is from the engine's side, we at MECCA MARINE are fully backed up by the companies in question and we go all out to support any client. Many a times, the japanese firms take up to 3 months to confirm a warrantee claim. In this case, our technical department takes over and we proceed with ordering the parts to our account. Than we are left to solve the issues with the suppliers in question. Our clients are our adverts and this is we invest heavily in the way we finish off our boats, our installations etc.
Thanks

busumark · December 24, 2009, 08:54:01 CET

Quote from meccanic 'The Tohatsu MF6Hp is not meant to be used as a main engine on a 14ft boat for hours on end and without any servicing.'

http://www.tohatsu.com/news/seiko.html

Tohatsu motors are made to work for hours on end.

C u soon nichol

shanook · December 24, 2009, 09:32:26 CET

WOW so a 2.5hp Tohatsu made in Japan is good enough to work 21hrs on a 21foot boat...........and a 6hp exported one to Malta is not good enough to move a 14foot boat for 5hrs.............something is very wrong here
Either that journey across the Atlantic is a gimmick or else the product in Malta is..............take ur pick and make a reasoned judgment.

oh this reasoning above is related to the posts here on the forum. Since meccanic said and i quote ''The Tohatsu MF6Hp is not meant to be used as a main engine on a 14ft boat for hours on end and without any servicing. Oils are consumables and these must be changed accordingly as per manual instructions.''
Now I ask a simple question which I hope will be answered as it is a bit mystifying.....
HOW CAN YOU MAKE AN OIL CHANGE (in this particular case) IF THERE IS NO OIL LEFT IN THE SUMP TO CHANGE???!!!???

malvizzu · December 24, 2009, 09:57:34 CET

Here something is really fishy. If the 2.5HP issue is not a gimmick, either the 6HP originated full of defects or something else is going on. I'm no expert at all, infact I don't understand a thing, but common sense is common sense.

skip · December 24, 2009, 10:34:55 CET

Quote from: Meccanic on December 24, 2009, 08:50:32 CET
Dear Mark and ALL,
When there was a product recall both re TOHATSU and SUZUKI i was always the one to bring it to light even to this forum as Nick can confirm. I also called the clients effected personally and rectified all.

Re quality tests by Tohatsu and Suzuki - this was just an explanation. In no way did i want to mean that we are not backing any guarantee... Nick you know that the cable of Euro375 was readily off the shelf and immediately did my utmost to help you out and replaced it immediately. The boat manual i have at my office. I tackle isues and have them ready and over with. The TOHATSU recall issue did not effect our serial numbers and therefore we could not launch it to the Maltese market but we have in fact launched it to the Greek Market where we sell engines too.

I confirm that if the defect is from the engine's side, we at MECCA MARINE are fully backed up by the companies in question and we go all out to support any client. Many a times, the japanese firms take up to 3 months to confirm a warrantee claim. In this case, our technical department takes over and we proceed with ordering the parts to our account. Than we are left to solve the issues with the suppliers in question. Our clients are our adverts and this is we invest heavily in the way we finish off our boats, our installations etc.
Thanks

As has been said before, praise is due where it is deserved and I would like to make a couple of comments from my experience:

1) When I send Nichol an email, he always replies in a short period of time.
2) When I call Nichol on his mobile, he always takes my call, he never rejects it, even if I have to call back a bit later
3) Mecca did replace my engine harness, the harness came from stock and this was done immediately at no charge. They also sent along a replacement complete ignition switch in case it was that
4) Mecca had a spare ECU for testing to eliminate any problems (unusual to have some an expensive spare but great to see)
5) It may take some discussion to-and-fro which may seem frustrating at times, however a dealer must do their utmost to validate and investigate claims, and to date I have always ended up with a positive outcome.
6) Yes there are area's that need to improve and Mecca are aware and working on it, nobody is perfect and I'm sure with additional investment in human resources things will improve further.

Nichol was aware of the Suzuki recall issue when others said it didn't exist! We discussed the Tohatsu recall issue that I found but then determined it didn't affect the serial numbers of the local engines so no action was needed.

Having worked in sales myself for 6 years as an account manager for various manufacturers in I.T. I can confirm that warranty claims takes eons to process and often the local dealer has to replace from their own stock or at their own cost to keep the customer happy and then hassle the manufacturer to get the replacement. Some manufacturers are better than others at supporting their dealers, sadly in Malta we tend to get put to the bottom of the pile as we're a small country/market.

I think Nichol has shown he does take a big interest, however I think that perhaps due to the typical customers he deals with and that he feels passionately about what he does, he sometimes says a few extra words too many which raise issues with credibility. Nobody is perfect and in life both personally and at work we have areas that we need to address and work on to better ourselves.

All customers want to get their issues solved, but I don't want to see this turn in to an excuse to attack a dealer just for the sake of it please; such comments will be removed.

benri · December 24, 2009, 11:30:02 CET

Unfortunately here I have to go against your line of thought Nick. I don't think it is appropriate to remove any posts unless proven to be false accusations or overboard! If they are true, then it is good for all members to know what type of service to expect from particular dealers - as far as I know we are here to share information - whether good or bad!
I have nothing personal against Nichol or Mecca Enterprises. In fact, hats off to him being here to face the music. I really admire him in this regard cause other distributors might just sit back and pretend not to follow what is going on in the forum! Unfortunately many Maltese distributors and agents have a lot to learn!
I just cannot understand certain aspects of their marketing but at the end of the day it's their business and they know how to run it! In my opinion, an example is what's wrong in mentioning that you parallel import a brand and are not the official distributor? It happens with car companies and white goods and I assure you that more people buy from the parallel importers than they buy from the official distributors because more often than not their prices are more competitive. But if on the other hand you claim that you are the official distributor when people know that you are not, they think in a manner that you tried to lie to them now let alone what would happen if you require their service!
Maybe there are no brand specialised mechanics yet, so what? just inform the consumer that you're working on it (if you are) and it soon will be in place! Everybody knows it's hard to find ceratin human resources locally and they need to be trained abroad which could be a hefty investment! Until that stage how about getting down a mechanic from Tohatsu (or wherever) say in February/March to trash out certain problems that your local mechanics maybe cannot deal with! Just an idea. I'm sure maybe the mother company might consider part sponsoring the trip/event.
In conclusion I consider this part of the forum a space where on one hand, we customers and friends can share information and on the other hand distributors can turn bad publicity into good publicity!

Meccanic · December 24, 2009, 11:39:13 CET

Dear Benri,

Re Outboard Mechanics these are: Robert, Eric and Norman. I have nothing to hide and these can easily be found through Mecca Marine showroom.

Benri, our mechanic is currently on the boat with MARK - who seems to have his own hidden commercial agenda, and with the owner of the outboard. The outboard, after already 2 hours of use on the same boat with 3 adulst on board, is working perfectly.
It is simple to say that after 25 to 30hrs of use, 4 stroke small engines with less than 800ml of oil, needs repalcement.

We are committed to aftersales, not in writing only but in direct action.
Should you need any aftersales during after hours, my mobile is 79732783.

Thanks and wish you all a very Happy Christmas by MECCA MARINE.

skip · December 24, 2009, 11:57:48 CET

TOPIC LOCKED on formal request as per terms of our registration agreement - This procedure has already been adopted in the past when similar issues occured with Misterfish and Aquatica, and based on legal advice we cannot allow the forum to be a boxing ring; it is here to provide information and raise awareness. There are possible legal ramifications and ongoing legal proceedings covering certain issues mentioned in this topic, and therefore the forum administration has decided it is not in the forum's interest to be involved in those cases.

It is very difficult for the forum to validate the accuracy of what is written, Reference to: false accusations or otherwise and we have to move along as per the conditions in our registration agreement. We have no way of knowing what was said in person by either parties, and we are unable to validate the comments either way. Various comments have been made, factual or otherwise, and the forum cannot arbitrate/mediate between the two parties which is how things were starting to end up. The first two pages remained in topic, with help and advice being asked for/given and then it deviated from there.

Due respect was given to both the person complaining and the other party in equal value, however we cannot allow the forum to used as a boxing ring with a free for all fight, without any respect for the rules governing the forum as detailed in the registration agreement.

Many things have been said from various parties and now it's up to individuals to reach their own conclusions.