20-22ft boat

[Moonwalker]

I am planning to upgrade to a 20-22ft boat mainly for fishing but also for some family time.
Here is a list of features I am looking for

- Sea worthy - since I go offshore also in winter I would need it to withstand some bad weather if it catches me
- Speed - I need as much speed as possible -  target is cruising at 35knt in F3-4 winds and 15knt is F4-F5 winds
- twin outboard Motors - for reliability
- Cabin with sleeping area + Pilot house with hard top
- Not too heavy to be able to load/unload in winter
- storage space and other basic features as found in all good brands

I have only done a sea trial on a PeterCraft 20 which is quite good but would like some feedback from other members about other boats.

[skip]

Julian,

That's quite a shopping list

The first thing I would focus on is the type of hull, offshore hulls tend to have a Deep V pretty much from the bow to the stern, deadrise would be min 19 degrees, sometimes even 21 (though unusual). This kind of deadrise let's your slice through the waves in F3-4 though I'm not sure at 35 knots without going flying around, but requires a lot  more power to get you up on to the plane and sustain it. That translates to bigger engines, so more of an initial purchase cost and possibly higher fuel consumption.

The compromise would be say 15 degrees deadrise......boats that start off with a good V and flatten out at towards the stern are designed that way to help you get up and on the plane with less power but at the sacrifice of the ride......they tend to pound more in adverse weather.

The not too heavy part is also a bit of a problem in my opinion, because boats built solidly with a good V and flare at the bow tend to be on the heavy side to give you the required strength to run at speed in bad weather.

I have already expressed my opinion on twin engines elsewhere on the forum, but basically if on a twin engined boat you can't run on the plane with one engines, then twins are pointless because all you have is an expensive and over-sized auxillary engine. In such a situation you're better off with a big beefy single 300 or 350hp outboard and then a 10-15hp aux on the side. With the right prop chances are the aux will do a similar speed to a single 150hp assuming the other 150 failed. Remember in a twin engine set up the engines are offset from the centre line and I don't think you'd be willing to jump in the water and change the prop on your working engine in order to try and get you home on the plane/at some kind of reasonable speed.

Aside from the above, if your reason for twin outboards is safety/reliability, then make sure you have two separate fuel tanks, separate fuel lines and filters to each engine and ideally to avoid possible fuel issues you fill up each tank from different places!!! As you can see a lot of hassle......

I know as you like to go extreme deep bottom fishing far offshore these things are important, but I would much rather invest in a good reliable outboard and buy a good EPIRB, plus liferaft then spend the additional money on twin and the extra money on annual maintenance.

Perhaps Petecraft can offer you their 22 model with a custom deck that would include an enclosed wheelhouse? I believe they may also have a new model in the pipeline that may be suitable for you, so I would give them a call.

Or a Buccaneer , but not sure if they have a model that meets your requirements especially on the speed side of things.

A large RIB will offer you the kind of speed performance and ability to run in rough seas that you are looking for, including the light weight , but then doesn't tend to have the sleeping area/pilot house you want......though there is something like this http://maltafishingforum.com/talk/index.php/topic,3854.0.html

Or perhaps one of the USA built walk around boats like a Hydra Sports http://www.hydrasports.com/boat-models/features-and-details/boat/9/2100WA or a Trophy http://international.trophyfishing.com/brochure.asp?modelid=230093

This one is still for sale http://www.boatlinkmalta.com/Bayliner-Trophy-2102-for-sale.html though you may need a power upgrade to get a 35 knot cruising speed.

What's your approx budget?

[malvizzu]

Great analysis Skip, wish I was as half or quarter technical as you

[robby017]

http://fishingboats.apolloduck.us/feature.phtml?id=212974

[skip]

Robby, that's a centre console, no cabin/sleeping area!

[robby017]

my bad, i thought it was similar to Colin's Seafox... pic not to clear

[toxictuna]

my two cents...I have bayliner which i bought for family time ending up doing more fishing. It has a high top speed +40knots, good consumption, an aux engine which pushes it at 5knots, cabin, stowage. However, two main disadvantageous... inboard engine (costly maintenance every two years) and most of it is upholstered which means cleaning cleaning cleaning especially albacores who love to spill blood all over the boat. I have driven it in 4knots at 22+knots with some knocking. hence i would imagine the trophy (being also part of the bayliner co.) should be fitting all your requirements since it is with an outboard and without upholstering, and some even have live bait wells.

[busumark]

It all depends how much you want to spend. The foreign boats that are good all come at a price. I like the Edgewater but they dont have one with a cabin and they are expensive. A new 188 CC with a 115 Yamaha shipped from the dealer in Italy costs  about 37000 Euro. http://www.ewboats.com/188_center_console_14.html

[Moonwalker]

Thanks I didn't think I would get this much feedback. So...

I have a Kaptan Trend at the moment which is serving me quite well. However it has some limitations from my experience
- little small for offshore
- no cabin - required for family time
- no pilot house - this is definitely required in winter rough seas - although I have a make shift one
- top speed of 25knt in calm sea - I am targeting 40+ in calm sea
- it is very sea worthy but takes some pounding when driving in not so calm waters
- can only do 5knt with aux eng in calm waters
- it is quite heavy compared to other similar boats

My boat is almost serving me well so I'm not in any hurry. However if I decide to spend I need a boat that meets my requirements and not regret it afterwards.
I dont have a budget yet however I am looking for a 20ft boat not a 35ft one and as mentioned above I need to be able to load/unload without much hassle - maybe not from gnejna slipway but from St paul or Marfa at least.

Deep V is obviously the way to go. 19deg is the most common deadrise from what I have read. I dont know if this deadrise is disigned for ocean waves or mediterranean waves? With my boat I find the N or NW swell the most difficult to drive through. Any feedback about this?

I agree with you Nick about twin engines. If the boat cant plain with a single engine then it is just useless. So ofcourse my idea of twin engines is that the boat must be able to get to plain with a single engine when fully rigged. Having 2 separate fuel systems is a nice idea although I dont think it is really practical to fill tanks from different stations.

EPIRB will be on the shopping list with the new boat yes. But about liferaft - when they say that the boat is unsinkable (as most brands say) what does it mean exactly? if it is really unsinkable a liferaft is not required right?

For some reason I dont like ribs at all. When I went with a friend on a rib for fishing I found very shallow (inside) and when the wind picked up, it gave us some serious pouning too. I dont know why they say they are so much sea worthy than other boats- whats so special about ribs?

I got a quote for the Trophy 2302 with twin 115HP outboards at about €60,000. Thats definitely out of budget. I saw the one on boatlink but as you said I would need a new motor for sure (or 2). And for the same price (or cheaper) I could buy a new boat from local manufacturers.

[baghira]

I agree that a rib is not designed for fishing....too much hassle as re: tube puncturing.... and the interior is very shallow........so you feel nearly outside the boat when standing up.....

What I do not agree is about sea worthinesss..... i have a small 16 foot and thrust me it can withstand rough weather like a much larger boat...Nothing can be compared to a rib for the size, when it comes bad weather..also when you are on anchor..... and when people move from side to side.... we can be 4 persons on the same side of the rib without this inclining badly to either side.

[skip]

Like anything, there are good RIBs and bad RIBs - now I don't want to diss your friends RIB but could be it just isn't a good design combo between length, hull shape and tube size because in general offshore in bad weather, very little can beat a good RIB.

Have you started looking online for a 2nd Hand Trophy 2102-2302 that may have the engine you want at the price you want? I think something like that is a good compromise.

Remember that the price of a new engine in the higher horsepower range is not joke, an ETEC 225hp sells for around €16,000 whereas the same 225 Suzuki was more like €18,000-19,000 let alone a 275 or 300hp engine that around be at least €25K sucking up a large part of your budget, when you still have to get and outfit the boat, plus electronics.

Speed seems to be a major focus for you, so you're going to need a big powerful engine....on that size of boat I don't think that twin's are the way forward and one engine isn't going to be enough to get you on the plane, based on the max hp / loading you can put on the transom with twins.

Locally you have the new Petecraft 20, the 23 that had the extension making it more like a 25 footer that I've seen with a 300hp and runs well.

[Moonwalker]

Thanks again.
I am hoping that some boat builders can post if any of their boats can meet these requirements?

[Meccanic]

Dear Julian,

Please have a look at the new MARINO IRIDE 640 - Very low entry price levels from Euro15999 for the complete Cabin Cruiser exclsuing Outboard and Trailer. Boat is pretty much complete. pls visit www.marino-boats.com

Various other models in stock at MECCA:
I suggest have a look also at the new QUICKSILVER BOAT RANGE: www.quicksilver-boats.com. You could buy new boat at very interesting low prices depending on the model you choose.

I invite you at Mecca Marine to show you around especially next week: 15th - 18th Sept during our annual MECCA MARINE inhouse Boat Show. Special deals for occasion.

Nichol
79732783

[skip]

Not sure the Marino's qualify at all as an offshore Deep V hull that can do 30 knots in F3-4, deadrise and hull design is all wrong and far too shallow and the construction and amount of material they use far too light/scarce.

And the problem is that unless he can actually test a model on the water and verify that he can get the speed he wants and the sea keeping ability requested, I doubt Moonwalker would take a leap of faith like some ppl might.

The local boat builders are very busy Julian and barely have enough time to even log on to the forum, you can try PM CrsPetecraft but I would advise you clear a couple of hours and go speak to them directly at their new premises near Bortex - Marsa Industrial Estate. Buccaneer are close by as well.

[Moonwalker]

Thanks Nick. Yes I will try to do some local shopping around and book some test rides.