Members of the Federation Committee attended a meeting held by the Fisheries Board Sub Committee set up by the local authorities to suggest new regulations governing Sport / Recreational Fishing in Malta. Members forming part of this Sub Committee include representatives coming from the Fishing Directorate, Transport Malta Small Ships Register Section, Malta Tourism Authority, the Fishing Cooperatives, the Armed Forces of Malta and the Federation representative Dr. Joe Carabott Damato. The committee is chaired by Notary Tonio Spiteri.
During this meeting a suggested list of fishing equipment to be allowed to sport / recreational fishing was discussed. It is also being proposed that all recreational / sport fishing vessels would be required to be registered with Transport Malta Small Ships Register Section in order to be allowed to be used at sea. In those cases where the owner would also like to fish, he would also need to have a fishing licence issued by the fishing directorate. These latter cases would most probably have an MFC registration number displayed.
can you please write it also in maltese?
NOT ACCEPTABLE. Recreational Fishing is what it is, recreational. Why should I need a licence to practice something I do for leisure. First of all you people who are attending these meetings should put it bluntly to the authorities that given the present circumstances and with a general election around the corner, you should make it perfectly clear that you would rather discuss policy with a new government once the general elections are over. This is nothing but arrogance of the 1st degree. We have to unite now more than ever.
So, what is basically being proposed here, is that if I have a 12 foot boat, which I use to do some costal boating, and dangle a line and hook while boating, I need a fishing licence?, what utter rubbish!!!!
Din MHUX ACCETABLI. Ghalfejn ghandi jkolli licenza ghal attivita ta rekrejazjoni. Mhux accetabli, u intom li qed tattendu dawn il-laqghat ghandkhom taghmluha cara li dawn id-diskussjonijiet jieqfu immedjatament,fid dawl li qedin f-sitwazzjoni ta elezjoni generali imminenti. Diskussjonijiet ta ploicy issiru ma gvern gdid. Ikun minn ikun.
Jekk il-membri hawn irridu jesprimu ruhhom fuq din, welcome. Din mhix politika, pero ftit gimghat qabel elezjoni generali, ma jigux diskussi affarijiet li ser jolqtu fil-laham il-haj l-unika rekrejjazjoni l-ghandha ahna is-sajjieda dillettanti. Qumu minn hemm l-ahwa. Is siegha tal prova waslet. Kollox ghaddej baxx baxx.
dan iffisser li jekk jien dilettant ta fregatina zghira ta 12 il-pied, u nohrog dawra mal kosta, u nirhi xlief u sunnara warajja, ghandi bzonn licenza? Dan hmieg l-ahwa, xejn hlief hmieg.
Ghal issa ha nieqaf hawn. Pero din mhux l-ahhar kelma tieghi.
nippreparaw ghal kazzott kbir.bil-barka tal-federazzjoni naturalment.
Quote from: caldaland on November 12, 2012, 23:11:44 CET
nippreparaw ghal kazzott kbir.bil-barka tal-federazzjoni naturalment.
U tghid mhux hekk Max. Kemm int zbaljat habib tieghi. Kemm int zbaljat. Dil-gimgha stess ser naghmel dak kollu possibli u nserrah ras id-dillettanti kollha tas-sajd li l-affarijiet ma jsirux hekk tal-ghagla u fl-ahhar mument, bil-barka ta dawk kollha li huma komplici. Jien qed inhalli spazju ghal Dr. Joe Carabott (GoGo) biex jigi hawn u jaghti l-verzjoni tieghu, imma minn dak li qed nisma u qrajt minn Frank (frabel), l-affarijiet ma huma jghogbuni xejn.
nixtieq min qalbi li nkun zbaljat.
Versjoni bil-Malti tal-Post Originali tieghi:
Laqgħa tal-Federazzjoni mas-Sotto Kumitat tal-Bord tas-Sajd mahtur biex jipproponi Regolamenti godda ghas-sajd sportiv / rekreattiv.
Membri tal-Kumitat tal-Federazzjoni ta l-Ghaqdiet tas-Sajjieda Dilettanti Malta attendew laqgħa li saret mis-Sotto Kumitat tal-Bord tas-Sajd imwaqqaf mill-awtoritajiet lokali biex jipproponi regolamenti ġodda li jirregolaw is-sajd sportiv / rikreattiv f'Malta. Il-Membri li jiffurmaw parti minn dan is-Sotto kumitat jinkludu rappreżentanti ġejjin mid-Direttorat tas-Sajd, , Malta Tourism Authority, il-Koperattivi tas-Sajd, il-Forzi Armati ta 'Malta u l-Federazzjoni rappreżentanta minn Dr Joe Carabott Damato. Il-kumitat huwa ppresedut minn Nutar Tonio Spiteri.
Matul din il-laqgħa giet diskussa lista ta rkapti tas-sajd li ser ikunu permessi ghall-sajd sportiv / rikreattiv. Huwa wkoll propost li l-bastimenti kollha tas-sajd rikreattiv / sportiv iridu jkunu rreġistrati ma Trasport Malta Small Ships Register sabiex ikunu jistghu jintuzaw fuq il-baħar. F'dawk il-każijiet fejn is-sid ikun ukoll jixtieq li jistad, ikun wkoll meħtieġ li jkollu liċenzja tas-sajd maħruġa mill-direttorat tas-sajd. F'dan il-każ, probabbilment ikollhom numru ta reġistrazzjoni MFC murija fuq id-dghajsa.
Jigifieri min hu bl S registration, jukn jista jistad jew le? Jew hemm bzon jaqleb al MFC (fejn kont smajt li mhux permess taqleb daghjsa min S ghal MFC)
iktar taxxi hux biex imbad trid thallas al permess u trid tiddikjara x'taqbad u kollox...U halluna...DEJJEM INDAHHQU LIN-NIES!!!! jaqaw issa is-sikkatura fuq il-kaccaturi spicca il-buzz taghha issa ha nduru as-sajjieda isa?! ax ma jxommux taht idejhom l-awtoritajiet taz-zewg nahat ax it-tnejn andom xi jxommu u jhallu l-erbgha dilettanti bhali u bhal shabi l-ohra ta dal-forum u ohrajn li mumiex, jihdu ftit pjacir bi kwietna...ahjar jihdu hsieb il-pariti go nofs il port u dahliet ax mifquha pariti malta...dak iridu jihdu hsieb u messom ilom li hadu hsiebom! Thumbs up lil caldaland u gaffer!!
i agree with you 100% gaffer. if you need any help count me in.
This is the official stance of the Malta Fishing Forum re the outragous decisions which are shaping the outcome of RECREATIONAL FISHING
The Malta Fishing Forum, as online representatives of 1000's of recreational fishermen, strongly object to the discussions taking place between the authorities mentioned above and including the Federation. These discussions are aimed at introducing new rules and regulations which will govern RECREATIONAL FISHING. It is evident that no real distinction is being applied when discussing sport fishing and recreational fishing. Also, The MFF feels that the interests of recreational fishermen should be a prime factor in these discussions, something which is evidently lacking.
It is no secret that recreational fishing is practiced by 1000's on the Maltese islands, consequently, recreational fisherman should have a prominent voice in shaping the policy that governs recreational fishing.
The MFF is proposing that with immediate effect, these discussions are brought to a halt.
The MFF will be requesting 3 meetings, one with the PN, one with PL, and one with Alternativa. We will put forward our ideas and urge the political parties to express their current opinion on such matters. Moreover, we will urge the PL, PN, and alternativa to include their promises in their respective electoral manifestos, so that the 1000's of people who practice recreational fishing may come to an informed decision when the time comes to chosing whom we wish to elect.
Dan huwa l-istand ufficjali tal Malta Fishing Forum fuq dawn l—affarijiet tal-biza li qed jigu idskussi minn wara darna.
Il-Malta Fishing Forum, bhala ghaqda li tirraprezenta eluf ta sajjieda dilettanti, togezzjona bil-qawwa kollha ghal dawn it-tahdidiet li qed issiru bejn xi awtoritajiet imsemmija hawn fuq, inkuz il-Federation.
L-Ghan ta dawen id-diskusjoniet huwa li jitroduci regolamenti godda li ser jirregolaw id-delizju taghna. Huwa evidenti li mhux issir distinzjoni bejn dawk li jipprattikaw is-sajd bhala delettanti, u dak sportiv. Nemnu ukoll li d-delettant tas-sajd ghandu jkun l-ghanprincipali ta dawn id-dispussjoniet, imma id-dilettant mhux raprezzentat kif xieraq. Hija xihaga ovja illum li is-sajd sar delizzju tal-massa, u ghalhekk, id-delettanti tas-sajd ghandhom ikollhom vuci prominenti u sehem shih fit-tfassil ta policy u regolamenti li jharsu id-delizzju tas-sajd.
Ghaldaqstant, L-MFF qed tessegi li dawn id-diskussjonijiet ghandu jieqfu minnufih.
Ser jintalbu laqghat mar-raprezentanti tal-partiti [olitici, PN, PL, u alterntiva, bil ghan li l-vuci taghna tinstema, kif ukoll nisimghu xghandhom jghidu l-partiti politici. Nessegu li dawn il-wehdi jigu inkluzi fil-programme eletorali tal-partiti biex b'hekk, dawk l-eluf ta delettanti jaslu ghal konkulzjonijiet tahhom meta jivvuttaw fl-elezjonijiet generali.
I'm happy to include anyone who would like to form part of the MFF delegation meeting the party leaders and their reps. I suggest that a team of 5 people should represent the MFF. Anyone who wishes to form part of the delegation please make yourself known now. I will gauge the enthusism here, and if be will write to the party leaders myself.
Also, in view of past experiece, my boat, The Gaffer, is registered both Valletta and MFC (MFC5769) so I have no personal gain in this crusade. But Fishing is fishing is fishing.
The Fisheries Control Division decided to appoint a sub committee of the Fisheries Board to discuss amendments and make new proposals regarding regulations of vessels registration and fishing activity (already in force) which govern recreational /sport fishing activities.
Since this sub committee derives from the Fisheries Board, the members chosen had to be part of the Fisheries Board as regards Chairman, Cooperatives, Federation of Amateur Fisherman, TM and AFM. As MTA does not have a member on the Fisheries Board a representative was nominated by MTA.
Since I am the only representative for Amateur Fisherman there was no choice. Does anyone think that rejecting to participate a priori is a reasonable action to take?
While I am standing in the sub committee, the Federation will be constantly informed of all issues under discussion. This will allow for feedback about the views of amateur fishermen.
The first point I raised with the chairman was that Federation committee members should be consulted. The chairman agreed and last week such a meeting was held.
I also called for a meeting with harpoon divers Association as this is another issue on the Agenda and there is nobody to represent them.
One should note that these are draft proposals. No decision has been taken. The sub committee is gathering all the information possible to ultimately produce a final draft with the widest possible consensus of all stakeholders. This document will be sent for further consultation within the Fisheries advisory Board which in turn will be sent to the Minister.
The Federation President rightly informed all amateur fishermen about these meetings on the Federation website and Malta Fishing Forum. What would have been the reaction of amateur fisherman if nothing was disclosed and then having amateur fishermen being faced with a fait accompli?
The Federation is not imparting any benediction on anything that may be detrimental to amateur fishermen.
The Federation is in the process of organizing a meeting for all Amateur Fishermen, irrespective whether they are members of a member Association or not. This meeting will take place only when a first draft of the issues in question is drawn up.
I am enclosing the Terms of Reference which the sub committee has to work on.
1. What kinds of fishing gear can be considered as recreational fishing?
2. Whether a fishing vessel needs a license?
3. Whether recreational fishing should have specific zones?
4. Catches controlled by minimum maximum sizes.
5. Whether fishing with harpoon should be considered?
6. Whether there should be distinction been recreational and sport fishing?
7. Whether MFC vessels and S vessels have same conditions?
8. Whether there should be different criteria for Tourist Fishing?
Excluding the first introductory meeting, the sub committee has only met three times.
Discussions are in their very early stages, so please hold your horses until some form of draft regulations have been set up.
Again, Dr. Carabott, this is simply NOT ACCEPTABLE.
You don't draw draft requirements, then discuss with all the stakeholders involved, then proceed to enact the law. Common sense calls for a wide discussion, then and only then, draft requirements are drawn up, discussed with the competent authorities, and passed on to all stakeholders involved for final approval.
Now let us take a closer look at your Terms of Reference.
1. What kind of fishing gear can be considered as recreational fishing?
Certainly not trammel nets, the ones used by MFB's and MFA's, the ones which are destroying our costline, and creating havoc amongst divers and snorklers.
2. Whether a fishing vessel needs a license?
Yes, a fishing vessel needs a licence, since its a fishing vessel. A pleasure boat does not require a licence to do recreational fishing.
3. Whether recreational fishing should have specific zones?
I thought apartheid and segregation finsihed when slavery was abolished. Lets look at it another way shall we; Why not have specific zones marked as no go areas for fishermen, such as conservation areas.
4. Catches controlled by minimum maximum sizes.
I thought we already had that. And once the FD, or TM learn how to use those ribs, it will be even better!!!!!
5. Whether fishing with harpoon should be considered?
No, Spereos will have to learn the art of calling fish by their side, and thumping them with a hammer. My God guys, grow up. How can spereos fish without a harpoon, at least they're using harpoons, not nets, purse sieners, long lines, bombs, ect.
6. Whether there should be distinction been recreational and sport fishing?
Isn't this the whole argument. Of course there is a distinction between sports fishing as opposed to recreational fishing. Again, if any or all committee, sub committee members do not know the difference, then you are not fit to represent the 1000's of recreational fishermen.
7. Whether MFC vessels and S vessels have same conditions?
Eureka!!!!....I have no opinion on this.
8. Whether there should be different criteria for Tourist Fishing?
Of course, and we should also start reserving large parking spaces, same as we do in Cirkewwa for divers, and lick their ass when the finish doing their jobbies!!!!, and blow them dry so they don't use a towel in case they damage their skin, and ferry them to the best parts of the island, where only they can swim, ect, ect , ect
My God, I had a feeling where all this was coming from!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ghaziz EmicMalta,
'S' registration tfisser li dghajsa tkun registrata ma TM taht ir-registru tal-bastimenti zghar. Bastiment zghar hu dak il-bastiment li hu taht 24 metru u ibahhar unikament fl-ibhra territorjali ta' Malta biss.
Dan il-kumitat qed jistudja metodu mar-rappresentanti legali tad-Dipartiment tas-Sajd u ta' Transport Malta biex 'S' registration ikollu ukol id-dritt li jistad daqs MFC.
Iva la darba jintlahaq ftehim, l-'S' li irid jistad japplika ghall-licenzja (mhux registrazzjoni) tas-sajd bhal MFC.
Dawn huma proposti li qed jigu diskuzzi. Ma hemm xejn lest.
Ghada hemm laqgha ohra dwar dan is-suggett.
Grazzi tal-mistoqsija
Joe Carabott Damato (Gogo)
it is very evident,where all this is coming from!
Jien nghidlek Dr. Carabott, f'isem l-eluf ta dilettanti sajjieda Maltin...
DIN L-GHAGLA KOLLHA GHALA? GHALFEJN ISSA? WAQFU DAWN IL-LAQGHAT, L-AFFARIJIET MHUX QED ISSIRU SEW.
Thalliex certi individwi u ghaqdiet juzawk ghal skopijiet tahhom, sakemm mintiex komplici mahhom, imma minghalija nafek sew jien Dr.Carabott, u mintiex ser tikkomprometti is-sajjieda. Din bhal tal kaccatturi, hafna loghob bil-kliem, u gabuhom jitkelmu wahedhom!!!!
Ara Joe (Gaffer). L-ewwel haga dawk it-terms of reference mhux tieghi imma gew mid-Direttorat tas-Sajd li jien miniex parti minnu.
Jien u xi erbgha ohra imgienen bhali qieghdin jikkombattu ma Kooperativi tas-sajd u awtoritajiet ohra biex jiddefendu d-delizzju tieghek u ta' eluf ohra bhalhekk u bhali.
Ma nafx kif wiehed jibda jispara sentenzi kontra shabu.
Jekk int qed titlob diskuzzjoni miftuha, mhux dak li qed naghmlu jien u l-Federazzjoni meta niktbu fuq MFF.
Ghax ma nkunx kostruttivi u naghtu risposti ghal dawk it-terms of reference biex ikollna argumenti validi waqt il-laqghat.
Joe, jien ma ghandiex ghalfejn noqod niddiskuti mieghek ghax qedin fuq l-istess daghjsa. Ghanna bzon li nkun haga wahda nkella nitilfu qabel nibdew.
Dejjem Tieghek
Joe (Gogo)
Komplu dahqu l alla li halaqkom !!!!!! Erbat ijiem ohra hbieb nistaw nghidulu bye bye is sajd !!!! kulhadd irid jamlilna l hsara !!!!! Id dilettant ed jigi fix xej..... dejjaqtu l kulhadd issa..... u kif qal perfettament il gaffer daw id diskusjonijeit ghandom jifqu issa ax dan mhux zmien li li jittihdu l mizuri li qed jissemmew.
Apparti min hekk gogo nixtieq ninfurmak li bhal issa r registrazjoni S tghodd identika daqs dik tal MFC.
tikkomplikawlnix izjed l affarijiet u halluna ngawdu d delizju tana bil kwiet.
Can someone please explain what is meant by the 8th point: "Whether there should be different criteria for Tourist Fishing? "
Does this mean that someone is proposing that "a tourist fisherman" who visits our country should be able to do some kind of recreational fishing which is less or more restringent to that which us as Maltese recreational fishermen can in our country??!!
& also what is meant by "Whether recreational fishing should have specific zones?" What is being proposed exactly here? Does this point refer to conservation zones? If so, we already have conservation zones and we understand the need /benefit for such zones.
Or is something different being proposed as in all animals being equal but some animals being more equal than others. i.e. creating a system of segregation / discrimination / preferenzi??!!
I think it is in the interest of all stakeholders to voice their thoughts now. Jigifieri min jistad bil-qasba, min irejjex, min imur ghal tal-qiegh, min imur bil-harpoon, tal-hwienet kollha tas-sajd, min ibigh armar ghad-dghajjes, min jipprovdi xi servizzi relatati, etc, etc ghandu jesprimi l-hsibijiet tigehu fuq din l-issue.
U din il-federazzjoni b'liema dritt tigi titkellem f'ismi li jiena semplicement dilettant, jekk jien m'iniex membru taghha? Se nergghu nigu fiz-zmien dittatorjali ta' Hitler jew?!!!!!
Quote from: Gogo on November 13, 2012, 12:20:07 CET
Jekk int qed titlob diskuzzjoni miftuha, mhux dak li qed naghmlu jien u l-Federazzjoni meta niktbu fuq MFF.
U bir-rispett kollu Dr Carabott, kif jista' jkollok "diskussjoni miftuha" jekk il-proposti diga ghamiltuhom minghajr ma kkonsultajtu mal-MFF. Kif jghid il-Malti, "il-huta minn rasha tintenn". U din xi bicca manipulazzjoni ohra minn taht biex inhallsu taxxi ohrajn u jkomplu jistanew min ghandu l-interess li s-sajjieda dilettanti ma jersqux f'postijiet fejn ikunu jistghu imorru dawk li ghandhom l-iskejjel tad-diving. Veru ninsabu f'pajjiz tal-biki.
L-iskop tal-"post" originiali tieghi kien proprju biex ninforma lid-dilettanti kollha tas sajd (inkluz dawk li ma humiex rapprezentati fil-Federazzjoni), b'dak li l-Federazzjoni issir taf li jkun ghaddej li jista jaffettwa id-delizzju taghna. Ridt ukoll li titqajjem diskussjoni miftuha bejn kullhadd biex il-Federazzjoni, permezz tar-raprezentant taghha fuq dan is-sotto kunitat tkun tista tressaq il-quddiem il-punti li jitqajjmu hawn. Li ma stennejtx hu li insibu sajjieda dilettanti shabna jakkuzawna li qed naghmlu xi haga kontra taghna nfusna b'komplicita ma haddiehor. Nixtieq nigbed l-attenzjoni li l-Federazzjoni tirraprezenta lis-Sajjieda Dilettanti permezz tal-ligi li biha twaqqaf legalment il-Bord tas-Sajd.
Ma nahsibx li l-Federazzjoni qeda f'posizzjoni li twaqqaf ix-xoghol ta dan is-sotto kumitat, ghax nassigurakom li bil-presenza tal-Federazzjoni jew le dan ix-xoghol jitkompla xorta wahda. Jekk naghmlu dan is-sajjied dilettant anqas biss ikun jaf x'qed jigi propost u diskuss.
Joe (Gaffer) nixtieq nassigurak li ahna bhala Federazzjoni naqblu mieghek mija fil mija dwar l-uzu tal-pariti, tharis taz-zoni tal-konservazzjoni etc.
Bhal ma qal Dr Carabott (GoGo) il-Federazzjoni behsieba torgannizza laqgha ghas-sajjieda dilettanti kollha (kemm jekk raprezentati jew le fil-Federazzjoni), meta jkun hemm l-ewwel indikazzjonijiet ta x'se jinkludi ir-regolamenti godda proposti.
Nixtieq naghmilha cara li jekk forsi xi hadd mill-MFF jippreferi li ahna tal-Federazzjoni ma naqsmux maghkom dak li ahna insiru nafu li jista jaffetwa id-delizzju taghna, jghidilna dan apertament u ahna kontra qalbna naqtghulu xewqtu.
Ahna,is-sajjieda dilettanti,ma naqblux li dawn il-laqghat isiru f'dan il-perjodu,b-ghagla kbira minhabba l-elezzjoni.Ghandhom isiru wara l-elezzjoni bil-kwiet u propjeta.Ghalhekk,il federazzjoni obbligata li taghmel min kollox biex twaqqaf dawn l-inizzjattivi.Jekk il-federazzjoni mhix parti min kumplott,allura,issa il-waqt li jghatu prova ta dan.
@Frabel + Gogo - Ma nistax naqbel ma dak li qed tghidu intom. l-affarijiet mhux hekk issiru. Intom qed tkunu komplici f'din il-bawxata li qed tinhema minn nies li ghandhom interessi ulterjuri. Ma tigiex ftit gimghat qabel elezjoni u tiddiskuti b'ghagla numru ta regolamenti. Anha bhala sajjieda dillettanti qed nghidulkhom ieqfu issa. Waqfuhom dawn id-diskussjonijiet. Dan tradiment kontra is-sajjieda dilettanti. kieku vera ghandkhom is-sajd rekreazzjonali ghal qalbkhom, kontu torganizzaw laqgha ferm qabel il-proposti saru mgharufa, u mhux wara. Issa l-froga saret. Imma, qed nghidilkhom kollha minn hawn, li jien ser naghmel dak kollu neccessarju biex dawn id-diskussjonijiet moqzieza jigu ghal attenzjoni tal publiku, kif ukoll biex dawn id-diskussjonijiet jiequ minnufih. Jekk Il-gvern huwa daqshekk mghaggel, ftit gimghat ohra hemm l-elezzjoni generali, u jitfa l-proposti fil-program elettorali. Hekk issiru affarijiet serji li jolqtu lil eluf ta nies. Qed tilghabu loghba perikoluza mal passatemp taghna, u ser issibuna mghaqudin iktar minn qatt qabel biex inwaqfu dan il-hmieg minnufih.
L isperti tad direttorat mhux se jgibbuwwa zewg ma lerba bazzuzzli tas settuwr u se jippruvaw juru snienom maz zghir eeh biex forsi jigbru giehom ma ta lewropa ahjar jaraw kif se jirrangaw il kawlata li holqu huma stess. u dawk tal kuprattivi mhux tahhom biss jaraw, jattendu dawn il laqghat biex jaghmlu pressjoni ghal kawza tahhom eeh.
Quote from: frabel on November 13, 2012, 15:36:20 CET
L-iskop tal-"post" originiali tieghi kien proprju biex ninforma lid-dilettanti kollha tas sajd (inkluz dawk li ma humiex rapprezentati fil-Federazzjoni), b'dak li l-Federazzjoni issir taf li jkun ghaddej li jista jaffettwa id-delizzju taghna. Ridt ukoll li titqajjem diskussjoni miftuha bejn kullhadd biex il-Federazzjoni, permezz tar-raprezentant taghha fuq dan is-sotto kunitat tkun tista tressaq il-quddiem il-punti li jitqajjmu hawn. Li ma stennejtx hu li insibu sajjieda dilettanti shabna jakkuzawna li qed naghmlu xi haga kontra taghna nfusna b'komplicita ma haddiehor. Nixtieq nigbed l-attenzjoni li l-Federazzjoni tirraprezenta lis-Sajjieda Dilettanti permezz tal-ligi li biha twaqqaf legalment il-Bord tas-Sajd.
Ma nahsibx li l-Federazzjoni qeda f'posizzjoni li twaqqaf ix-xoghol ta dan is-sotto kumitat, ghax nassigurakom li bil-presenza tal-Federazzjoni jew le dan ix-xoghol jitkompla xorta wahda. Jekk naghmlu dan is-sajjied dilettant anqas biss ikun jaf x'qed jigi propost u diskuss.
Joe (Gaffer) nixtieq nassigurak li ahna bhala Federazzjoni naqblu mieghek mija fil mija dwar l-uzu tal-pariti, tharis taz-zoni tal-konservazzjoni etc.
Bhal ma qal Dr Carabott (GoGo) il-Federazzjoni behsieba torgannizza laqgha ghas-sajjieda dilettanti kollha (kemm jekk raprezentati jew le fil-Federazzjoni), meta jkun hemm l-ewwel indikazzjonijiet ta x'se jinkludi ir-regolamenti godda proposti.
Nixtieq naghmilha cara li jekk forsi xi hadd mill-MFF jippreferi li ahna tal-Federazzjoni ma naqsmux maghkom dak li ahna insiru nafu li jista jaffetwa id-delizzju taghna, jghidilna dan apertament u ahna kontra qalbna naqtghulu xewqtu.
Joe u Frabel.
Jien membru fl ghaqda taghkom ta birzebbuga. Ma kont naf xejn x inhu jsir imma mill esperjenza li ghandi f dan is settur kemm malta kif ukoll barra GHAGGILTU!
Jien ma rcevejt ebda fuljett jew informazzjoni fuqiex kontu qed tiddiskutu.
Bhalissa huwa zmien delikat bi gvern li mhux stabbli. Dawn r regolamenti nissoponi li ha jippruvaw idahhluhom qabel l elezzjoni biex iroxxu lil hbieb taghhom. L iskop u semplici, l flus tal kampanji elettorali iridu jigi minn x imkien u hadd ma jtik xejn ghal xejn....
Kif l awtorita kaxkret saqaja fuq l affari ghal hafna zmien, jistenna ghal wara marzu u ma jghaggilx - La qatt ma ghagglet ghalfejn f daqqa wahda hafna ghaggla?
Dawn d diskussjonijiet jihdu zmien JOE U FRABEL. Sardenga, biex dahhlu certu ligijiet u kontrolli, damu 5 snin jistudjaw u jikkonsultaw. illum igawdu l frott.
L haga hi din, Malta ghandna habta naqbdu nghagglu u mbad nhawdu. l bahar mhux fi stat tajjeb, imma l problemi mhux d dilettant zgur. Ahjar jaraw wahda l hsara li jaghmel t tkarkir fuq s sikka l bajda, hurds bank. Dawn sikek li min jiftakar zminijiet ohra kont ssib dnieci u crien bl ghama. Llum ghandek xorti jekk ssib serran fuqhom.
L awtorita trid tikkontrolla l abbuz u s sajd - tajjeb mela tibda minn sajd sostennibli minn sajjieda professjonisti, thalli l bahar jiehu r ruh u taghmel regoli gusti mad dilettant u MBAD ikolla dritt tibda titlob flus ghal licenzji tas sajd - ghax tkun ghamlet xi haga importanti biex l popolazzjoni u l varjeta ta hut f malta jitjieb.
Jien ma naqbilx li certu sajd ma jistax isir fil vicinanzi ta diving wrecks. L industrija tad diving qeda thalli gid malta veru, imma l problema li hawn malta hi li hawn sajd bhat tkarkir li qed jaghmel hsara kbira.
Pero, anke certu sajd minn nies li jsejhu ruhhom dilettanti, mhux accettabli. Li tara nies fil barmin xi 20 zabrott anqas jaqbzu 50 grms mhux sabiha. Nemmen li jekk ikun hawn pjan ta konservazzjoni intelligenti, kulhadd igawdi. Imma irid jinhadem bil ghaqal, minghajr ma jiddiskrimina lil hadd.
Jien nemmen fil bonta tieghek JOE ghax naf li taghmel taghmlu b passjoni. Imma tghaggilx... il qattusa ghaggiela frieh oghmja taghmel.
granitu u inti tahseb li l gvern ha jaghmel dawn l affarijit ghax ghandu ghal qalbu l konservazjoni tal bahar. Ghandu al qalbu l konservazjoni meta ta l licenzji tat-tkarkir minn 3 mili l barra l xi dajjes ax qalu li ghandhom l magna tat-dajsa zajra u ma jistawx johorgu barra l 25 mil biex ikarkru. Dan kellu impatt kbir fuq l bahar. U hawn postijit li fuq l karta sipost ilhom riservi fuq 5 snin u ghadhom jimlew kullimkien pariti. Imma laqwa li ghan-nies li ma jafux u ghal fuq l gazetti u TV nidru li ghanda r-riservi protetti f Malta
kif konna dhalna fl ewropa kienu ivvintaw li biex tistad trid tkun MFC u taw c cans l dawk li kienu S jaqilbu MFC u ghal ewwel qalulna li tridu thalsu z zewg licenzji imbad wara hafna protesti u tgergir qalulna li tistaw thalsu MFC biss u ma setawx jinqalbu izjed minn S al MFC. nahseb issa spiccaw l flus ax iridu jergaw jaghmlulna zewg licenzi.
kumbinazzjoni z zewg koperattivi tas sajd l gimgha li ghaddiet ukoll kellhom dizgwid mal-gvern u nahseb li dawn ghandhom izjed sahha minnha d dellettanti u ghalhekk jekk dawn iridu xi haga li ghalina ma tkunx tajba tistaw timaginaw l fejn ha imur l-mizin. Bhal ma huwa listess fejn jidhlu d diving schools ahna qatt m ahna ha inlahqu maghhom
Minn ha jideciedi x ha ikunu l irkapti li wiehed dilettant jista juza biex jistad dan x poter ghandu biex jideciedi x hinu tajjeb jew hazin. Bhalissa diga hawn dawn l ligijit li minn hu MFC u S jista jistad bijhom dawn ituwhomlok meta tmur thallas l licenzja kull sena igiefiri ma narax ghalfejn la dawn r regoli issa ilhom fis-sehh fuq 6 snin dawn ghandhom jinbidlu la hadd ma jigi b xi provi li dawn huma hziena.
GAFFER jekk ikollhom bzonn xi haga kemm tibatli u fejn inkun nista nghin
Din xi haga incredibli ohra maghmula bil-ghaggla.
Nista nifhem il-pozizzjoni tal membri tal-assocjazzjoni illi bhal ma jigri hafna drabi, tissejjah laqgha u tigi mistieden fl-ahhar sekonda u ma tkun infurmat b'xejn. U tmur hemm u issib ruhek f'nasba bejn dawk l-awtoritajiet kollha u il-lehen tighek ma jkun jiswa xejn. Ahseb u ara kemm ser iwaqqfu id-diskussjonijiet fuq talba tal-assocjazzjoni.
Nahseb li hemm bzonn isir ferm aktar min hekk. Nahseb li hemm bzonn tissejjah laqgha kbira bejn kul dilettant u min hemm jibdew xi diskussjonijiet fuq dak li jista jsir.
Igifieri jekk qed nifhem sew, mela ghal-sport/recreational fishing se jkun hawn hafna ligijiet u licenzji u nixtieq inkun naf ghal-liema skop dana kollu???? Ghax jekk ir-risposta se tkun ghal konservazzjoni tal-hut ahjar ma tinghatax ir-risposta. Jekk vera ghal-konservazzjoni tal-hut ahjar l-ewwel jaghmlu l-ligijiet ghal-minn jitfa l-pariti u juza x-xibka tat-tkarkir u jekk irridu jaraw ftit hut under size nahseb jafu wkoll fejn ghandhom imorru.
Ma tarax inhallas licenzja u l-affarijiet jibqghu kif inhuma, mela ahna tfal jew?????? U dan xjigifieri erba minn nies jideterminaw u jidettaw xinhu l-ahjar anom ta eluf ta nies ohra???
Ejjew ninghaqdu kollha halli dawn il-proposti lanqas biss jibqghu jigu diskussi qabel ma jsiru studji bis-serjeta u finalment johorgu proposti li jkunu vera sostenibli u jaghmlu sens. Bir-rispett kollu dawn l-affarijiet huwa nsult kbir ghal-inteligenza taghna u jidher bic-car li qed nigu trattati bhal tfal tal-kindergarden ( l-ebda offiza ghat-tfal tal-kindergarden :) )
hekk hu, il ligijiet az zaghr qedin. mela ahna nmorru hemm u miljun ligi u jekk jsibuk kollox sew jaraw x jivvintaw, u tara wiehed tat tkaxkir jingharaf min kilometri boghod, bil gawwi li jkollu jigri warajh biex jiekol dak il hut iz zajr li nqatel ta xejn u gie mormi il bahar. hekk sew!!!
Minhix xi wiehed li nipponta subaja lejn hadt iehor, ghanzi jien dejjem nara x naghmel jien u ma tanc jinteressani f dak li jaghmel hadt iehor, dak emm min ghandu xoghlo biex jati kas, pero qed nhoss li hemm xi haga tinten fuq din il bicca.
Thaks tar risposta Sur Carabott. Fuq ir risposta li hadt min ghandek, ghandi dubju 1 biss, din il licenzja kulhadd jista johoda jew se jkun hemm numbru ta dajes li jkunu ixxurtjati li jehduwa?
Rigward il hrapen, jista xi hadt jajdli kif nista naqbad huta waqt li nkun diving bl apnea minghajr harpoon? Dan ifisser li anke l italja, franza, spanja u il kumplament ta l unjoni europea se jkolla twaqqaf is sajd bil harpoon???
U haga ohra kif wasslu ghal-dawn il-proposti???? Nispera li hemm xi studji xjentifici warajhom dawn il-proposti kif ukoll ir-rizultati mistennija bdawn il-mizuri u li nistghu narawhom. Ghax jekk ma hemm xejn minn dan, jista xi hadd jispjegalna fuq liema bazi hargu dawn il-proposti???
Ha nghidilkom jien ghala erba minn nies qed jidfdettaw kollox. Dawn ghandhom pressure minn certi ghaqdiet, gruppi, inhawi, sejhulhom li tridu, biex kemm jista jkun, il-sajd jigi ikontrollat, Dan minhabba lobby iebes gej mill-EU. l-aktar grupp daghjjef huwa id-dilettant tas-sajd, mhux tal MFB jew MFA, ghax dawk raprezzentati sew, mela dur ghalijhom. Dawn immorru l-EU, u jghidu ara, ghamilna dawn ir-regolamenti tas-sajd, li ma jghidulhomx huwa li dawn ir-regolamenti japplikaw biss ghad-delettant.
Fattur iehor huwa li dawn il-gruppi ikollhom certu miri li jridu jintlahqu, u f'daqqa wahda jintebhu li wasalna ghal gheluq ta legislatura ohra, u milli ghedna m'hemm xejn.
It-tielet fattur huwa li hemm cans kbir li fi ftit jiem ohra, jekk ma jghaddiex il-budget, il-gvern ma jkollox ghazla ohra hlief li sejjah elezzjoni, peress li rabat il-budget ma vot ta sfiducja. Jekk jigri hekk, allura dak kollu li hemm ippjanat, ikollu jistenna sa wara l-elezzjoni. Anki jekk ma jinbiddilx il-gvern, xort jaf ikun hemm bidla fil-ministru, li tghati lok ghal bidla fil mentalita, policy, sejhula li tridu. U alliura, dawn ix-xewqat ta dawn il-gruppi, jergaw lura ghal mejda tal-hsieb. Jekk jinbiddel il-gvern, allura is-sitwazjoni tinbiddel ghal kollox.
Ghalhekk din l'ghagla kollha, biex dak li ghandu jigi deciz, jigi decizz, u jghaddi baxx baxx. Il-hasra hi li hemm raprezentanti ta sajjieda delettanti maqbudin f'din ix-xibka tal-hazen. Ghalhekk, minnufih qed nitlob li dawn jirtirraw minn dawn il-laqghat moqzieza, li l-ghan tahhom biss huwa li jxeklu l-passatemp taghna. Jirtiraw, u jirrigistraw it-tilwima tahhom mal-Kunsill Nazjonali tal-isport. Aktar minn hekk, tigi irrigistrata tilwima mal-Ombudsman, fejn jigi mghharraf b'dak kollu li qed jigi. Hemm bzonn ukoll li din il-kwistjoni nwasluha ukoll fuq livell politiku. L-aqwa opportunita bhalissa hija li niltaqaw mall-mexxeja tal-partiti politici, u nwaslu l-messag taghna li ahna, fl-eluf taghna, ma naqblu xejn ma dan kollu. Oltre minn hekk, nistidnu l-partiti politici biex jinkludu l-weghedi tahhom fil-manifest elettorali taghhom, halli meta nigu ghal vott, inkunu nafu liema hu dak il-partit li hu favur is-sajjied dillettant. Tinsewx l-ahwa, qedin fl-eluf ahna...ejja ma jigrilniex bhal kaccaturi.
Quote from: EmicMalta on November 13, 2012, 20:59:09 CET
Rigward il hrapen, jista xi hadt jajdli kif nista naqbad huta waqt li nkun diving bl apnea minghajr harpoon? Dan ifisser li anke l italja, franza, spanja u il kumplament ta l unjoni europea se jkolla twaqqaf is sajd bil harpoon???
Mela ma smajtx Dward. Dawn l-ghorrief li qed jiltaqaw, ser jaghmlu kors ghad-divers kollha, gej wiehed minn barra, biex jghallem lid-divers kif isejhu l-hut jersqu vicin tahhom, umbghadd johorgu lembuba u jfajrulha wahda kif tmiss il-ligi fuq ras il-huta. X'tambieh il-harpoon meta jkollok il-power li sejjah huta hekk!!!!
The Malta Fishing Forum has the largest registered member base of recreational fishers encompassing land, boat and underwater. Given the ramifications of these proposals we indeed should be duly represented in our own right.
As recreational fishers we are not part time fishers earning an income, yet it seems the Fishing Directorate want to single us out as the culprits. I don't need to expand much as we all know the reasons for fish stock depletion - Gross unregulated overfishing by MFA/MFB vessels catching severely undersized fish in huge quantities over the last couple of decades or so.
The Fisheries Board Sub Committee has failed to gather all stakeholders if it feels having the Federation is representation of the majority of recreational fishers. The Federation primarily represents the clubs associated with it, but a significant number of recreational fishers prefer to enjoy their past time than feel obliged to join a club. As such they can keep themselves informed and share ideas and learn techniques on the MFF....and therefore their voice should be heard.
I am more than happy to send out an announcement to all registered users, asking them to sign an online poll or petition if need be.
In the meantime we will be pursuing having these discussions suspended. I was aware of the creation of this Commitee as Dr. Joe has always been kind enough to CC me on certain mails with Fisheries. However based on the mails I saw I was under the impression this was to deal with Bluefin and Swordfish quotas and to put forward views to ICAAT. Not such an extensive and potentially seriously discriminatory set of propsals.
Guys, up until this point, I have outlined a strategy how one should tackle this situation which is slowly developing. However, thanks to the post by Frabel, we were alerted to some very worrying things which seem to be taking place behind closed doors, to the extent that members here are implying that the clubs have not been informed about these discussions. I have outlined, in Maltese, what the Federation should do, and that is, immediately call for a halt in these discussions, failure to which, the Federation lodges a formal complaint with the National Sport's council, and inform in writing the National ombudsman aginst this blatant discrimination against recreational fishing.
Allow me now to outline what the MFF is about to do.
I have written to the Leader of the Opposition, where a delegation from the MFF requests a meeting with the PL and spokespersons for fishing, recreational activity and maritime activity. Our agenda will be to raise the awareness of the PL to the shenengens going on with these meetings, and request that whatever is decided in these meetings be declared null and void by a new Governement should the PL be voted to government after the nex tgeneral election. Moreover, we will discuss our ideas with the PL, encourage the PL to include these ideas into their electoral manifesto (roadmap) so tha tpeople are well informed of the direction to be taken in the future. I have already recieved a positive response on this request, and a delegation of the MFF will be meeting the PL in the coming weeks.
I will do exactly the same thing with the party in Governement, the PN. I will request tha ta delegation from MFF meets the PM, and respective spokepersons, including the minsister responsible for all this. I will request that these meetings are immediately suspended, as they are not reflective and representative of recreational fishing.
I am drafting an email to the IGFA, as the MFF are members, and inform the IGFA how recreational fishing and fishers are treated in Malta.
I think Nick's (Skip's) onlione petition will come in handy, just as a show of force, and that the MFF does really mean business. Remember we are 2660 members here, quite a force to be reckoned with.
What you can do? - I expect each and every one of you to exert as much pressure as possible on your MPs (they're doing house visits at the moment) and expose this sub committee for what it really is. If we all make a noise about this, I'm sure it will be heard at the very top.
For starters, how about starting an online campaign agains tthese meetings on facebook. you'd be surprised how effective this is,
They didn't take care of what the Hunters and trappers had as a hobby which number over 17,000 let alone us. this goverment is a bulldozer on single hobby organisations.
you will see
Quote from: digger0579 on November 14, 2012, 08:42:52 CET
They didn't take care of what the Hunters and trappers had as a hobby which number over 17,000 let alone us. this goverment is a bulldozer on single hobby organisations.
you will see
This is not the attitude I was expecting. There are valid reasons why the hunting and trapping lobby failed miserably in the quest to secure the best deal with both the government and the EU. I will not mention them here, but I will mention one fact, which is public knowledge now. The Hunters and trapping federation where lied to, taken for a ride, and ridiculed beyond all extremes. This is public knowledge.
As to us recreational fishermen, our position is much different. If we unite, and walk the talk, then we are a force to be reckoned with. We will argue reason with facts, and treason with disdain.
As promised yesterday, the same request for a meeting with the PM and spokespersons of the PN has just been forwatrded to the PN.
I represent The Malta Skin Divers Club, which is the only club on the island that organises spearfishing competitions on a regular basis, would like to be informed with what is going on regarding this matter.
You may contact us on Facebook - Maltaskin Divers or by e-mail josetteg@maltanet.net or by phone 79593884
@Dr. Carabott + Frank Abela - Nispera li qed tindunaw li l-membri tal clubs affiljati mal federation huma kollha vuci wahda li dawn id-diskussjonijiet li qedin taghmlu ghandhom jieqfu immediatament.
Hemm bzonn intuwilkhom bil-miktub din ukoll?
Jien qed nistieden wiehed minnkhom biex bhal ma ghamilna fl-imghoddi, nergu ninghaqdu spalla ma spalla u tigu maghna meta niltaqu mal-partiti politici biex niddiskutu kif ser nimxu l-quddiem. Diga ghandha konferma li l-PL lest jiltaqa maghna. M'ghandiex dubju li l-PN jaghmel l-istess. Pero id-diskussjonijiet irrridu jieqfu immediatament, inkella irtirraw minn dawn id-diskussjonijiet, tissejjah laqgha ghad-dilettanti kollha tas-sajd, u hemm niddeciedu l-pass li jmiss.
gaffer,can you give me your phone number please.by pm of course.
thanks
here it is, everybody knows it....79441203
Quote from: The_Gaffer on November 13, 2012, 21:17:00 CET
....... Oltre minn hekk, nistidnu l-partiti politici biex jinkludu l-weghedi tahhom fil-manifest elettorali taghhom, halli meta nigu ghal vott, inkunu nafu liema hu dak il-partit li hu favur is-sajjied dillettant. Tinsewx l-ahwa, qedin fl-eluf ahna...ejja ma jigrilniex bhal kaccaturi.
Joe haga li tinkwetani hafna hija li jista' jigri l-istess kif gara lill-kaccaturi, lili nnifsi nkluz. Ftit qabel l-elezzjoni, Eddie Fenech Adami bghat lilna l-kaccaturi pagni shah b'weghdiet li l-kacca mhux se tintmiss, u li jekk tintmiss, din se tkun ghall-ahjar. U dan suppost bil-barka tal-EU u bid-derogi li suppost gabilna. Kulhadd jaf x'gara. L-ghaziz eks prim ministru tnejjek bina f'wiccna u wahhalulna bil-pulit ghax kulhadd jaf f'hiex giet is-sitwazzjoni tal-kacca u l-insib. Ma nistax nifhem kif il-FKNK qatt ma gabitha zewg meta hemm dawk l-eluf kollha ta' kaccaturi. Wisq nibza' li l-istess ghaqda hadmitna minn taht. U l-istess qed nibza' mill-istess Federazzjoni tas-Sajd!!!!
@Malvizzu - jidher li hekk ha jigri. Interess ta Xejn. Jien pjuttost m'ghandiex ghalfejn ninkwieta ruhi, ghax il-lanca tieghi qeda irregistrata MFC u Valletta. Iggifieri pjuttost imissni nghamel bhal haddiehor, noqod gallarija, u nhalli kollox ghaddej. Wara kollox, jien nohrog nistad ghal Alungi bil-qasab, ghat-tonn meta johrogli l-permess bil-qasba mmur, u la konzijiet, u wisq inqas xibka ma nitfa. Jien ga nhallas licenza biex nistad ;)
@ gaffer. kieku li thallas l licenzja biss as sajd lanqas jimporta tghid m hemmx xtaghmel taxxa ohra ma l ohrajn issa drajna li t taxxi ma ghadhomx jizdiedu fil-budget imma matul s-sena biex tinata l-impressjoni li mumiex jaghmlu taxxi godda. Li tinkwetani huwa dawk r regoli bla sens u biex jinqdew certu nies li jimponu fuqna u igibuna nitkelmu wehdna
What needs to happen at this stage is for me to create an online poll and understand / gauge whether a good number of registered forum users feel that action needs to be taken.
The first issue is whether they feel that recreational fishing should be so heavily regulated without there first be effective and ongoing.enforcement of fishing in Malta.
If they feel new regulations are needed that an elected delegation representing the MFF should be able to contribute directly in terms of input on the sub committee even though we are not an NGO. Or if they are happy to lobby via the Federation with whom we have worked with during tournaments etc in the past.
A lot of us feel very passionately about this hobby especially those who have invested a lot of money and time into this past time, and it is therefore very important to understand the future of our hobby.
I believe that reform or regulation of the recreational sector is being driven by thosewho are not happy with us sharing the sea with them if it may jeopardize their interests.
Quote from: Gogo on November 13, 2012, 11:24:40 CET
The Fisheries Control Division decided to appoint a sub committee of the Fisheries Board to discuss amendments and make new proposals regarding regulations of vessels registration and fishing activity (already in force) which govern recreational /sport fishing activities.
Since this sub committee derives from the Fisheries Board, the members chosen had to be part of the Fisheries Board as regards Chairman, Cooperatives, Federation of Amateur Fisherman, TM and AFM. As MTA does not have a member on the Fisheries Board a representative was nominated by MTA.
Since I am the only representative for Amateur Fisherman there was no choice. Does anyone think that rejecting to participate a priori is a reasonable action to take?
While I am standing in the sub committee, the Federation will be constantly informed of all issues under discussion. This will allow for feedback about the views of amateur fishermen.
The first point I raised with the chairman was that Federation committee members should be consulted. The chairman agreed and last week such a meeting was held.
I also called for a meeting with harpoon divers Association as this is another issue on the Agenda and there is nobody to represent them.
One should note that these are draft proposals. No decision has been taken. The sub committee is gathering all the information possible to ultimately produce a final draft with the widest possible consensus of all stakeholders. This document will be sent for further consultation within the Fisheries advisory Board which in turn will be sent to the Minister.
The Federation President rightly informed all amateur fishermen about these meetings on the Federation website and Malta Fishing Forum. What would have been the reaction of amateur fisherman if nothing was disclosed and then having amateur fishermen being faced with a fait accompli?
The Federation is not imparting any benediction on anything that may be detrimental to amateur fishermen.
The Federation is in the process of organizing a meeting for all Amateur Fishermen, irrespective whether they are members of a member Association or not. This meeting will take place only when a first draft of the issues in question is drawn up.
I am enclosing the Terms of Reference which the sub committee has to work on.
1. What kinds of fishing gear can be considered as recreational fishing?
2. Whether a fishing vessel needs a license?
3. Whether recreational fishing should have specific zones?
4. Catches controlled by minimum maximum sizes.
5. Whether fishing with harpoon should be considered?
6. Whether there should be distinction been recreational and sport fishing?
7. Whether MFC vessels and S vessels have same conditions?
8. Whether there should be different criteria for Tourist Fishing?
Excluding the first introductory meeting, the sub committee has only met three times.
Discussions are in their very early stages, so please hold your horses until some form of draft regulations have been set up.
Sur Carabott, illum ikkuntatjajt lil ghaqda taghna l spearoes u mil ewwel sibna rispons ta ghajnuna min naha taghhom. Jekk jogbok tista tajdilna lieghma ghaqda ikkuntatjajtu u min hu il persuna in charge li ikkuntatja lil assocjazjoni tal harpoon?
MarcoG huwa persuna inkarigata fil kumitat u naprezzaw jekk jigi infurmat fuq dawn l azzjonijiet
thanks bil quddiem.
edward
@ Skip: I understand that an online poll will be a great idea, but thousands of people out there does nt know anything about this. Yes on MFF we are about 2600 but if we can have something to spread around with local 'fishermen' for sure it can go more then 10 times as much
Dear Emicmalta,
This afternoon I spoke to Marcog and arranged for a meeting. Please contact Marcog and he will give further details.
Yours
Joe (Gogo)
Quote from: Gogo on November 14, 2012, 22:33:25 CET
Dear Emicmalta,
This afternoon I spoke to Marcog and arranged for a meeting. Please contact Marcog and he will give further details.
Yours
Joe (Gogo)
thanks. I will do
Hawn xi hadd jista jikkjarifika z-zewg mistoqisijet li ghamilt fil-post ta' qabel:
1 - X'qed jifhmu biha beta jghidu jiddiskutu zoni ghar-recreational fishing (point 3)?
Pruvajt nahseb x'jista jfisser dan il-punt u 3 options hsibt:
- Jekk qed jghidu li ghandu jkun hemm xi zoni bhal ma ghandna bhalissa fejn hadd ma jista jistad biex inzommuhom bhala conservation zones / natural reserves hekk nifhimha.
- Jew qed jissugerixxu li ghandu jkun hemm zoni fejn sajd kummmercjali ma jistax isir imma jista jsir sajd rikreazzjonali. Dan jista jkun bil-hsieb li l-impatt fuq il-fish stocks f'dawn iz-zoni ikun ferm iktar baxx u sostenibbli.
- Jew l-option l-ohra li nispera li mhux il-kaz, hu li jista jkun li hemm xi hadd qed jissugerrixi/tissugerrixi li ghandu jkun hemm areas fejn jista jsir sajd fuq skala kummercjali imma mhux rikreazzjonali. Policy bhal din assolutament mhux fl-interess ta' l -ambjent u fish stocks tkun. Din Robin Hood bil-maqlub tigi : iccahhad liz-zghir biex taghti lil-kbir halli jkun iktar komdu u agevolat.
2 - X'qed jifhmu biha meta jghidu jiddiskutu jekk turist ghandux ikollu drittijiet ghal-sajd rikreazzjonali differenti
minn Malti (Point 8 )?
Jista min ressaq dan il-puntu jikkjarifika/tikkjarifika x'tip ta' diskriminazzjoni u segregazzjoni kellu f'mohhu/mohha?
Dawn huma zewg punti li huma nkwetanti hafna ghalina li ghandna d-delizzu tas-sajd.
Ghaziz Jonathan,
Iva hemm minn jista jikkjarifika l-mistoqsijiet tieghek.
Punt numru tlieta.
'Jekk qed jghidu li ghandu jkun hemm xi zoni bhal ma ghandna bhalissa fejn hadd ma jista jistad biex inzommuhom bhala conservation zones / natural reserves'
Iva dik wahda mil-proposti. Minn naha taghna, dillettanti tas-sajd insistejna li l-bahar madwar Malta huwa zghir u ghalhekk wiehed irid joqod attent kemm jaghmel minn dawn ir-riservi u dejjem jiddiskutu mar-rappresentanti tas-settur bhal Federazzjoni, Klubs tal-dilettanti tas-sajd u Divers Klub (harpoon) li huma kostitwiti u rikonoxxuti mil-Awtoritajiet.
- Jew qed jissugerixxu li ghandu jkun hemm zoni fejn sajd kummmercjali ma jistax isir imma jista jsir sajd rikreazzjonali. Dan jista jkun bil-hsieb li l-impatt fuq il-fish stocks f'dawn iz-zoni ikun ferm iktar baxx u sostenibbli.
Le din hadd ma pproponija.
Jew l-option l-ohra li nispera li mhux il-kaz, hu li jista jkun li hemm xi hadd qed jissugerrixi/tissugerrixi li ghandu jkun hemm areas fejn jista jsir sajd fuq skala kummercjali imma mhux rikreazzjonali. Policy bhal din assolutament mhux fl-interess ta' l -ambjent u fish stocks tkun. Din Robin Hood bil-maqlub tigi : iccahhad liz-zghir biex taghti lil-kbir halli jkun iktar komdu u agevolat.
Fuq din kien hemm suggeriment mir-rappresentanta tat-turismu. Kemm ir-rappresentant tal-Federazzjoni ,dak tal-Kooperativi u membri ohra wara diskuzzjoni ma qablux .
'X'qed jifhmu biha meta jghidu jiddiskutu jekk turist ghandux ikollu drittijiet ghal-sajd rikreazzjonali differenti'-ewwel haga qed niddiskutu dwar bastiment tat-turismu u mhux it-turist. Turist jista ikun anki Malti meta imur fuq dawn il-bastimenti u t-tnejn ghandhom kull dritt.
Li qed jigi mistharreg hu jekk dawn il bastimenti ghandhomx ikollhom regolamenti tas-sajd simili bhal dawk tad-dilettanti. Jigifieri licenzja mid-dipartiment tas-sajd b-regolamenti bhal tad-dilettanti. Bhalissa ma hemm xejn u kullhadd jaghmel li irid min u min mhux fit-turismu..
Dan il- punt ghad irid jigi mistharreg sew f-seduta ohra.
Jekk ghandhekk bzon xi kjarifiki ohra erga saqsi. Dan kien ir-ragun li l-Federazzjoni poggiet dawk it-terms of reference biex kullhadd ikun jaf xi qed jigri u kif ir-rappresentanti tad-dilettanti rikonoxxuti mil-Awtoritajiet Kompetenti qed jaghmlu u f-istess hin tingabar u tinghata informazzjoni u suggerimenti lid-dilettanti madwar Malta . Jekk ir-rappresentant tad-dilettanti jirtira mil kumitat l-affarijiet jibqaw sejrin xorta bid-differenza li ma inkunux nafu xi qed jigri u lanqas nopponu suggerimenti li huma ta' detriment ghad-delizzju.
Grazzi
Joe(Gogo)
Gogo, assolutament mhux minnu Dak li qed tghid li Jekk int tirtira minn dawn il laqat l-awtoritajiet jibqaw ghaddejjin. Jekk int tirtira, tissejjah laqa generali ghad dilettanti tas-sajd kollha aw Malta, u tgharraffom b'dak li qed jigri, nassigurak jienil-awtoritajiet jisimhu. L-awtoritajiet, specialment is sajjieda kummercjali u tat turizmu, Jafu li dan huwa laqwa zmien biex tiehu li trid mill gvern, u bil prezenza tieghek fdawn il laqat qed taghti l-barka tieghek fisem is sajjieda dilettanti kollha maltin biex dawn jibqaw ghaddejjin.
Grazzi tal-klarifikazzjonijiet Joe. Jekk se jsir xi tibdil f'xi policies dan ghandu jsir b'tali mod li l-interessi ta' kulhadd kif ukoll ta' l-ambjent jigu salvagwardati. Assolutament mhux accettabli li jsiru xi tibdiliet biex xi ftit kbar jigu agevolati ghal-iskapitu tal-hafna zghar. Ghaldaqstant importanti li bhala dilettanti tas-sajd nsemmghu lehennha.
I, like many others, own a fishing boat which is powered by an outboard motor which is greater than 100HP. Currently my boat is reistered as S but I have the option to change to Valletta cos the boat is longer than 20ft. But I am unable to register as MFC. Currently this is not an issue for me cos I can still fish with an S registration. Is anything to change? If anything is to change it should be for the better cos anyone into boating nowadays knows that an outboard motor is as clean and as efficiant at least as an inboard motor. So why the discrimination? Why these things only in Malta? Why now? Why us that have near zero impact on the sea?
I am all in favor of regulation. But regulations have to make sense and be written with the sea and it's inhabitants in mind, not with money in mind.
Following a very long discussion and chat with Dr. Joe Carabott (Gogo), I am in a better position now to state the following;
Dr. Joe Carabott confirmed most of my suspicions, being that some of the stakeholders present have been putting forward a number of proposals which would seriously restrict the recreational fisherman's hobby. Sadly these proposals are coming from a number of quarters, but mainly from the TM+ MEPA and a host of other stakeholders who have no interest at all in recreational fishing. Surprisingly, infact I say this vey proudly, the Fishing cooperative representing the commercial fisherman have not so far raised objections or concerns towards recreational fisherman. This is a very good sign indeed, as it demonstrates that there is a sense of comradeship between the us and the commercials.
Back to the discussion.
Dr. Joe Carabott has so far been instrumental in pushing back most of the banal proposals being presented by the different stakeholders in this Sub-Committee. We can safely say that Gogo's presence there has ensured that these banal proposals be shot down immediately they are presented for discussion. So, contrary to my calls to Dr. Joe's Carabott retiring from this Sub Committee, I NOW believe Gogo is doing a lot of justice to our cause, and should continue to represent us and we should reciprocate by providing our full support. I still stand by what I said, that these discussions are taking place too late in the day to do justice to our couse, and it seems there is a general rush by the establishment to rush through these proposals and enact them as law.
I will not go into the details of the meetings, I will allow Dr. Joe to expand on that. We are even supporting the idea to jointly (MFF + Federation) call a national conference on these discussions, however, Dr. Joe, and I support him on this thesis, is slightly reluctant because it may get slightly emotional (ticcajta!!)
Lastly, the Federation has accepted the MFF's invitation to close ranks and jointly make the necessary representations with the political parties and to encourage the political parties to include their thoughts and direction in their respective electoral manifestos. The Federation will be discussing this on Thursday as it is mandated by the statute of the federation that consensus must be sought before allowing representatives of the Federation to meet up with political parties.
In conclusion, it is our belief that until such time that the Federation decides to call the National meeting for Recreational Fisherman, where the federation will make public all that is and has been agreed to, the MFF will team up with the Federation to provide a common front and provide all the necessary support including but not limited to having a healthy discussion on the forum.
why do i feel utterly dissappointed?
Joe (Gaffer) grazzi ta l-ahhar kontribuzzjoni tieghek. Nista nassigurak li l-Federation taghmel hilitha kollha biex tahdem ma kull min huwa involut f'dan id-delizzju taghna. Importanti li nkunu maghqudin ghax flimkien jirnexxielna nipprotegu id-delizzju taghna pero jekk mifrudin ikun ferm aktar facli ghall haddiehor li jtellfilna kollox.
Kien f'dan l-ispirtu li jien tfajt l-informazzjoni fuq dan il-Forum. Barra minhekk nixtieq ninforma lill-kull dilettant li l-Federazzjoni qed taggorna il-website taghha bi kwalunkwe attivita li torganizza jew tattendi. Il-Website address hu http://federazzjoni.webs.com .
I think that Gaffer's initiative of setting up meetings with political parties is an excellent and commendable initiative. At least we will know better where we stand.
Over-regulation of recreational fishing will spoil our pastime. We go fishing to take a break and relax not to worry ourselves stiff whether we are completely in line with a myriad of regulations. Of course we do not want a free for all but the major stakeholders here are the dilettanti and any changes in regulations should be the result of consultation and joint decision making between the authorities and the recreational fishermen.
I have no idea what the people coming up with this idea of regulating recreational fishing have in mind but I hope there are no hidden agendas behind the proposal of restrcting fishing in certain zones, such as restricting fishing in harbours so that larger boats, water taxis, commercial vessels, yachts and other large craft can have it all to themselves.
There are hundreds of tiny boats (less than 12 feet) which for obvious reasons have to fish exclusively in ports and harbours. Many of these tiny boats are owned by pensioners and low-income individuals who have as much right to use the harbours as the larger vessels.
As I said previously, discussion would go on without any interruptions from the recereational fisherman if Dr. Carabot had to leave the meetings. So I thrust he is taking the right decisions.
I will read any future developments and if, needed attend and urge more poeple to do the same, if a general meeting is held.
Hope that individuals are aware that we are a group of responsible people, that beside being fishermen, and we practice our sport with love, and respect, and take great care of our natural habitat.
Why do I feel that I have gone thru something similar when the PTF was abolished??????
I remember the great injustice of the owners of vessels above the 6mtr that didnt want to register Valletta since they had no intention of going out of the 25 Mile zone, there were others who were of older age and even stated that they will not even go out of the 4 mile zone as all they do is pass some time fishing along the coast BUT hey ho with the blessing of the federation they had to pay two licences.
When we were informed that we made a BIG gain as we were allowed to use rod and reel to go out fishing.
That we couldnt catch swordfish and keep it when other EU countries could do so.
That we couldnt catch Tuna and keep it when (in those days) others were allowed to keep a fish (according to size regulations) per outing.
That we were lucky as we could still fish for Alungi.
We all know what happened with the PTF licence and how it was changed to MFA, MFB and MFC. I remember when Labour where going to introduce a minimum limit of fish to be taken by PTF boats to the fishmarket (pixkerija), all hell broke lose and we had dictatorship splashed all over the place. Now those who thought that it was going to be an easy task to make up the quota have realised and have relinquised MFB and are now MFC. It is eaasy to make a quota but if there are no safe harbours where to keep the boat in the water all year round. The funny part is that when the fishing is good, the insurance wont cover you in most harbours around Malta.
I am in favour of regulations, limitations, conservations etc etc BUT first start making regulations to those that are hurting the sea, all decent fisherman know who. I remember the nets being tied to our moorings at Birzebbugia harbour.
The Maltese system has been like this and I dont think it will change very easily, the authorities involve a number of representatives and then when they (the authorities) decide (and this is usually a decision that favours the Powers that be) they say that all concerned were consulted, and we had the chance of stating our views.
Ask any member of the Amateur fishing clubs in Malta that are affiliated with the federation, whether they knew about the new system(the change from PTF to MFA,B,C) . there were clubs that didnt even tell the members about the changes.
That is the past and I dont want to live there, But the past should be an eye opener for the future.
@Shanook - I hear you, and totally agree with you. Something is not right. The discussions are taking place at a very late stage in this Government's legislature, there are too many unknown unknowns, and there are too many high powered, money hungry stakeholders involved in these discussions. However, and this is a big however, myself alone (and I don't mind walking the road alone) cannot do anything about it. Also, I am giving decency the benefit of th doubt, decency being that I truely beleive that Dr. Joe Carabott is a decent, genuine and trustworthy person. Unfortunately, Dr.Joe is not alone in these discussions, and its the other individuals who I don't trust.
So, yes, on the one hand I share the same feeling as you Tony. On the other hand, I need to take a step back and observe the scene unfold before I really put on the pressure. We have at least made a step in the right direction, being that the MFF and the Federation will be meeting the political parties to discuss the best way forward for the benefit of recreational fishing.
One thing is for sure, the quicker the Federation decides to call a National meeting for all recreational fisherman, the better. I would feel much more at ease and comfortable that Dr.Joe would be reflecting the sentiments and wishes of what the majority of recreational fisherman want, and not what a Notary feels is the right thing for us, whether he is a recreational fisherman or not. I feel that all affiliated clubs within the federation should push the Federation to calling a national meeting to discuss and agree on a way forward. If this does not happen, then we all have something real to worry about.
Joe (gaffer) as I already told you the Federation has in mind to organise a National Amateur Meeting i.e. for all Maltese and Foreign amateur fisherman that practice their hobby from Malta.
Now since we are all on the same frequency, always allowing and discussing different opinions, this general meeting can be organized. The Federation committee meeting next Thursday has this on the agenda. Also one must realize that the Federation has to have a final draft document ( type of white paper) to present during the meeting for discussion where the floor will decide to adhere or not to proposals in the draft. At this stage if certain proposals due to valid reasons are not accepted by the majority, I will again call on the sub committee to reconsider the objections.
Another way is that I as Secretary of Federation will post on Fed website and MFF the drafted proposals and have the feed back of amateur fisherman. I am sure that the message will be carried to every corner of Malta. Here we amateur fisherman should show our real love towards recreational fishing by opening a real and sound discussion.
I already had a couple of questions from MFF members which I answered. Also I still have to answer redhead and shannook but the valid issues they raised are still being discussed in the sub committee and no draft has as yet been drawn. Once these issues are discussed I will post to both members. Further questions are welcome. The term of reference which is in an advanced stage is the type of gears used by recreational fisherman.
Also please, everybody should understand that the Federation did not propose or organize this sub committee. We are present to give our opinion and defend amateur fisherman from any proposal that may influence adversely our hobby. We need your help.
Gogo
Dr. Joe, since you mentioned 'gears' better refered to as fishing equipment, I will talk about it as well. I didn't want to bring up this subject, because as yet I have no information about what type of 'gear' is acceptable and allowed to be used by recreational fisherman. I have my own views which I have privately shared with you, but that is simply my opinion. Others may view things differently, and we need to respect that opinion too. However, when it is seen that those opinions go against the spirit of recreational fishing as an activity, then we need to call a spade a spade. I will not elaborate further here, as this is a public forum.
We need to define recreational fishing for what it really is. We must also acknowledge the fact that recreational fishing has become a multi million euro business in Malta, whereby thousands of passionate enthusiasts sustain local fishing outlets, marine related outlets, and a host of support enterprizes who enjoy the income generated from the services renedered to the recreational fishing community, from fuel purchases to mechanics, to divers who inspect renew or repair moorings to marina fees, boat repairs, boat yards, and a plethoria of other services, which list is too long to put down here. The recreational fisherman expects these entities to support our cause, as we are the ones who generate and drive their business. So you see guys, in actual fact, we may not bring over tourist divers to look at our beautiful reefs and sunken treasures, but we sure as hell put bread on the table of a number of businesses and individual entrepenours who enjoy the benefits generated by recreational (passionate) fishermen.
I have attempted to list some known facts about our passion. An activity which is not only providing recreational space to our needs, but also generating a living for a number of entities. Let us all come together to form a united front to protect what is rightfully ours.
Dawn fil-laqghat ma isemmu xejn rigward pariti ghax jekk hemm xi haga li trid tinqata huma l-pariti nahseb jien......
Jiena nemmen li kollox qed jissemma. Pero habib, importanti li ma nippuntawx subghajna lejn hadd ghalissa. Halli johorgu l-fatti f'forma ta 'white paper' kif wegheduna tal-Federation, issir il-laqgha nazzjonali, umbghadd minn hemm kollha flimkien nidecciedu il-pass li jmiss.
Sewwa tkellem Joe (gaffer).
Jien jekk ikolli l-permess li nikteb fuq il Forum lista ta' irkaptu (fishing equipment) jien hekk naghmel. Nar it-tnien 19 ta' Novembru waqt l-laghqa tal-kumitat insaqsi nistax naghmel hekk min issa.
If I will have permission to name the fishing equipment I will do so. Next Monday I will ask whether I can at this time of discussions.
Gogo
My friends,
i'm not a member in any club ,because at wied zurrieq there isn't a committe, will i be able to attend any national meetings if there is any?
Yes, I beleive Gogo has already made this clear. All recreational fishermen, both locals and foreign, will be able to attend the national meeting. "Joe (gaffer) as I already told you the Federation has in mind to organise a National Amateur Meeting i.e. for all Maltese and Foreign amateur fisherman that practice their hobby from Malta."
Iva, kullhadd jista jattendi din il-laqgha nazzjonali, intix membru ta klabb jew le. Diga qal Dr. Joe li dawk kollha li huma sajjieda dilettanti li jistadu fl-ibhra Maltin, kemm jekk huma Maltin, kif ukoll barranin, jistu jattendu.
Dear Werzieq,
National meeting means for all Amateur fishermen practicing their hobby in Malta.
Yes, not you can but you must.
Gogo
Quote from: Marenostrum on November 16, 2012, 11:07:53 CET
Dawn fil-laqghat ma isemmu xejn rigward pariti ghax jekk hemm xi haga li trid tinqata huma l-pariti nahseb jien......
Nahseb qed tohlom habib, ghidli kif ha tfiehem xlukkajr jew xi ghawdxi li ma jistax imur jistad bl-ghazel..
Il parit jaghmel hsara, imma kieku irid isir pass importanti lejn il konservazzjoni, jinqata dan is sajd sfrenat bit tkarkir, gangmu, bombi (din ghanda ssir sfortunatament minn certu individwi veru nsara) u s sajd esagerat bil lampara u x xibka (hut taht dghajjes bl lampa, u wara idawruh)
Il parit jaghmel hsara, imma tahsbux li jaghmel dik l hsara sfrenata li hafna jahsbu. L hut wara certu zmien hawn postijiet dara l parit... Kieku jinqata ideali, imma fil hajja trid tkun realistiku
@Granitu....ghidli kif fehmu lix xlukkajri u lil ghawdxin li ma jistax jonsob jew jispara..................but I agree with you that there are worse practices that do more damage.
The shore fisherman is mostly hit by this method and we must take care of all fisherman, those using a boat, from shore or diving.
@gogo .........hey I know its not an easy matter being in that seat. I am sure that with your experience, you can realize that those who post are not being malicious but enthusiastic for their hobby and as everyone knows their most expensive investment. In my opinion theses meeting should be held with the various entities. Why are the full time professional fisherman discussing the future of the amateur fisherman? Why should they decide what we should or should not do? They do not carry the same agenda. I respect and admire the full time fisherman, as the sea is not a piece of cake and they have to make a living out of it, but thats as far as it goes.
I think there should be change in the way that the Gov operates, not put everyone in the same basket so that we get something done in a hurry.
Quote from: shanook on November 16, 2012, 14:23:18 CET
@Granitu....ghidli kif fehmu lix xlukkajri u lil ghawdxin li ma jistax jonsob jew jispara..................but I agree with you that there are worse practices that do more damage.
The shore fisherman is mostly hit by this method and we must take care of all fisherman, those using a boat, from shore or diving.
Lol shanook... kif fehmu... taparsi ma jmorrux.... imma jitfaw xi tifel jew xi xih qabel id dahla ta delimara biex jekk jidhol xi appostlu jinfurmhom li gej fuqhom u jzarmaw minnufih. Hemm sal kanen go l art biex jahbu s snieter u johrog mill ghalqa biz zappun u jahbi t tajr go lart biex mbad jaqilawh bil lejl jew meta jkunu jistaw jaghmlu dan...
Hemm min osserva il ligi, u emm min jisfida l ligi. Dik il hajja. Pero nibqa mmeraviljat fuq haga wahda... nies intelligenissimi (irid ikollok intelligenza biex ikollok l ALE u bird life fuqek u ma jaqbdukx) li kieku juzaw l intelligenza taghhom b mod ghaqli, zgur mhux qedin fis sitwazzjoni li spiccaw..
Fuq s sajd, l abbuz qatt ma tista taqtaw shanook... dejjem ikun emm dak il bniedem li isib mod kif jevadi s sistema u ma jinqabadx... Fuq il parit u x xlukkajri, trid tkun gust ukoll... Hafna minnhom llum qalbhom maqtuwha u izarmaw qedin... fadal min ghadu jahdem imma zgur mhux ihajru t tfal taghhom jaqbdu l mestier taghhom. Huma nies li wara kollox jafu l bahar fuq ponot subghajhom u kieku jibzaw inqas mill bidla, nemmen li dawn huma n nies li jistaw jaghtu kontribut siewi fuq l konservazzjoni. Dawn nies li hafna minnhom ghexu fuq il bahar u zgur jghallmuna mux nghallmuhom. Zgur ma jistax jghallem fuq konservazzjoni xi owner ta xi diving school.... nizlu diving wrecks b apparat tal plastic li hallewhom emm (telephones ect) fil bahar li jikkontamina u jiehu 500 sena biex jiddegrada ruhu.
Ftit huma l mgienen llum li jinvestu biex jahdmu fis sajd - l ispejjez zdiedu u l prezz tal hut naqas (meta jkarku, jwaqqaw il prezz ghax tinqabad il kwantita ta hut bi spejjez izghar u l hut gieli jinxtara minn barra bhal vietnam u nigerja (fittex youtube ha tara x jigri)- anke jekk l kwalita hija baxxa)
Pero nemmen li problema kollha hi li kultant nahsbu wisq fil llum kif qijed milli kif nista nkun ahjar fil futur - 'No long run vision'. Kieku s sajjieda professjonali jadattaw ruhom ghas sitwazzjoni prezenti u jibdew jahsbu b mod iktar realistiku u xjentifiku - naslu
imma dik holma habib...
Dear Tony (shanook)
All you said is right and that is the reason why this subcommittee has been created. In the Fisheries board apart from FCD,GRTU,fish vendors, Mepa, AFM and TM representatives there are two cooperatives and fishfarm/acqua culture representatives. The latter two count up to six persons and many a time I the only recreational representative have to battle against these personalities whose main aim is fish farming, trawling and Tuna /swordfish fishing. More often than not anything on the agenda that involves recreational fishing is skipped not to say............
So the directorate decided to form this subcommittee where there is only one member from the cooperatives who is well versed and is respectfull towards recreational activities. Each Authority present has one representative including FCD. Legal advisors to FCD and TM are also present so any sweep proposal is turned down if not within the legal framework.
Certain issues as registration of MFC vessels dates back many years and now the two departments involved i.e. FCD and TM are very close to a solution. Be sure that I am involved and suggesting proposals which have already been discussed with the respective committee members of recognized Associations such as M/Xett, Bugibba, Birzebbuga, Sliema,Gzira,Gnejna and also Denci Club. Next Thursday although not a Federation member we are going to meet Harpoon divers club.
I will not accept in the name of amateur fishermen anthing that is not supported by legal laws or notices.
Remember that this subcommittee is for recreational fisheries so we cannot discuss ( which I do in the other board) trawling,net casting and longline for Tuna/Swordfish/Alongi which is a fishing equipment already prohibited to recreational Fisheries. If there is a cowboy that despite the prohibition uses such equipment then it is the Authorities duty to enforce the law. All we can do is report such misdoings.
Let us keep ourselves informed and once the draft regulations will be post forward your suggestions, acceptance or objections in a constructive way. This will help me to voice out the requests of Amateur Fishermen.
Gogo
Decisions are not taken in formal meetings.Rest assured,they are taken behind closed doors,between two or three people maximum.Bullshit and corruption is rampant in this country,with the blessing of all and sundry!
@ gogo.. Thanks for the updates..
Hope to hear more positive outcomes, and if need be attend this general meeting.
There are much more recreational fisheman than those listed in these clubs. Just have a look at the MFF.
I can speak regarding my biggest hobby ie:spearfisng. The members of this 'club' amount to a very small percentage of the overall local enthusiasts. I myself am not a member of this 'club'.
Baghira, that is the reason why we posted on MFF. If you asked me to attend the National General Meeting to be organized by Federation, how can I not attend when I am secretary of same Federation.
I think if every amateur fisherman informs his friends more and more persons will know. Please pass on what is really happening not what one thinks. We have to keep calm and united. I have been on these boards for over 24 years and have passed worst situations. Initially I was alone as no Associations or Federation existed. Slowly local groups the first of Birzebbuga of which I was a founder and President started to form followed by several others. Finally the Federation which is legally recognized in Chapter 425 of the Fisheries Law. This made the job easier.
Until a formal draft is reached one has to wait. The job started three weeks ago and we are only in the fourth meeting. Hurry will not help. Each term of reference has to assessed properly as to its legal aspects and impact on all stakeholders.
Where possible I will post updates positive and/or hope not negative ones.
Gogo
count me in Joe (gaffer) . dawn l affarijiet mhux accettabbli. mela ha noqghodu sejrin hekk f dal pajjiz . jkun hawn xi hadd li jrid jidher jew ghandu interessi ohra w jibda jbazwar kemm jiflah. NO WAY.
To All Amateur Fishermen.
Below kindly see correspondence between Notary Tonio Spiteri (chairman of Fisheries Recreational Sub Committee) regarding my request to divulge issues discussed on fishing gears / equipments that were unanimously agreed to.
Tonio Spiteri <tonspit@maltanet.net> wrote:
Dear Director,
I have just received an email from Dr. Joe Carabott Damato on behalf of the Federation of Amateur Fishermen requesting authorization to divulge certain information to Federation members on the allowable fishing gear which has been discussed and unanimously approved by all committee members. Dr Carabott Damato is being inundated with requests for information since there is a lot of speculation going on and also some adverse comments about the Department in general and the workings of the committee in particular.
Therefore, Dr Carabott Damato is kindly requesting your authorization to divulge certain information about fishing gear which is non controversial, so as to put the minds of Federation members at rest and dispel any adverse speculative comments.
Kindest regards,
Tonio Spiteri.
Dr Spiteri
I have no problem to provide information. The widest the discussion would make it healthier.
I cannot understand the antagonism against the Department. The appointed committee is to discuss recreational fishing and come up with a structured proposal for further discussion with interested parties.
Thus I appeal to everyone to be constructive and come up with ideas and suggestions.
Joe
Having received this approval I wish to inform all amateur Fishermen that following accurate scrutiny, the Fisheries Recreational Sub Committee has reviewed all possible fishing gears / equipments that can be used by recreational fisherman. All Fishing gears / equipments that at present are allowed have been approved and others added as rod and reel, rod jigging, forok and imrejkba which were not included before. A limit number of hooks (200) to bottom long lines have been introduced up to a depth of 100metres. In deeper waters in excess of 100 meters, fishing is only allowed with rod/jigging.
I welcome any questions on recreational fishing gears / equipments. Remember at this stage changes can be made provided practical constructive suggestions are forwarded.
Please, we are discussing recreational fishing so no comments, even if legitimate, on gears used by Commercial Fisherman. Now is our chance to voice what we think is beneficial to recreational fishing and get the best. Your cooperation will be greatly appreciated.
Gogo
Joe Carabott Damato
Recreational Fishing representative on Fisheries Board and Secretary of Federation
Bullshit !
lolololololol
WOW! we can fish with rod and reel? no kiddin? i cant wait to try it!
What I fail to undertstand, is that this supposedly sub committee board, is discussing Recreational fishing activities and fishers and there is only one person - Dr. JoeCarabott, who actually reflects representation of recreational fishermen. I have been told that the chairman is also a recreational fisherman, but in his capacity as chairman, he is a political appointee and as such, needs to follow policy and procedure as laid down by the body that appointed him to this role in the 1st place. As for the Director of fisheries stating that the the wider the discussion the healthier, then I suggest the Director acts on these statements by inviting and including the Malta Fishing forum in these discussion, being the largest online representative of recreational fisherman.
A limit number of hooks (200) to bottom long lines have been introduced up to a depth of 100metres. In deeper waters in excess of 100 meters, fishing is only allowed with rod/jigging.
why there is this 100metres limit?? i looks absurd to me why 100metres ??!??
i agree wt number of hook 200 makes sens, but depth limit is a big NO NO !!!!
OMG all these years I have been breaking the law.... I was actually fishing with rod and reel.....I have to go to confession...........wait a minute the rod and reel shit has already been discussed and approved years ago.... something is not right.
The letter says what can be use, please can you be specific and state what cannot be used or is controversial as the letter states.
Again in 2012/2013 we have not been given the pleasure of using (and having just one on the boat) a surface line with a limited number of hooks, say 50 hooks.
Everyone knows that fish are not that abundant and with these restrictions the amateur(recreational) fisherman and eventually the retail outlets will face a drastic decline.
last and the most offensive is that those discussing and deciding what is best for the recreational fisherman are not the recreational fisherman themselves (or their representatives).
Is the fishing gear the only issue being discussed by the sub committee? If there are other issues can we please know what is going on?
Hi Yogi
Thank you for your post.
This limitation was brought up by the cooperative representative. Their reasoning is that since in deep waters fish like Stone Bass (Dott) and Blue-spotted Bream (Bazuk) are the main targetted fish, the use of longlines with many hooks can produce a big catch. Their argument is that since recreational fishermen only fish for pleasure and cannot sell their catches one can use rod and line and jigging in these depths i.e. more than 100 meters. They say with rod and line one can catch one or two which should be enough. Catching more will eventually finish on the market.
From our end we did not agree on the depth indicated. We are asking for deeper limit margin for long lines. Any suggestion to contrast their arguments?
Gogo
Dear Shanook,
Yes there is something wrong. Rod and reel was discussed and approved and I was the representative who was instrumental for that approval but unfortunely the approval was never written down. We are still stuck with the 1934 S.L. 10. 12 legislation which only mentions in article 2 (i) all methods of hook and line fishing, including jigging with gulpara and hiel.
So we decided to specify with its proper name each fishing gear/equipement to avoid any future misunderstanding.
Our proposal of surface longline for lampuki with 50 hooks has been accepted even by cooperative representatives.
The cooperatives and FCD agreed with the recreational representative that the fishing gear not allowed to recreational fisherman remains as it is now, namely:
All kinds of casting nets (xbieki tat-Tonn, Tkaxkir,Lampara, Lampuki, kahli, includung parit, xkett, tartarun,gangmu and terrieha), longlines for Tuna, swordfish and alongi.
No this is not the only issue, if one reviews past post one can note eight terms of reference. We decided to start with fishing gear as we argued that if we do not find a concensus on this item then there is no need to carry on further discussions. As the only controversal issue is the depth of bottom long lines we decided to tackle the other terms of reference.
Now this issue is open to public scrutiny and opinion. Once a consensus on other items is reached then again I will post for public opinion. Remember we started on the 25th October.
Tony permit me to remark on your statement "Everyone knows that fish are not that abundant and with these restrictions the amateur(recreational) fisherman and eventually the retail outlets will face a drastic decline". I hope that retail outlets means fishing tackle outlets and not fish mongers etc. I cannot see how approving all fishing gears now in use can influence negatively fish tackle outlets. A drop in fish stock will certainly cause a drop as less person will be inclined to go fishing also considering the cost of fuel.
As to the rest I am not inclined to answer to any personal provocation. All that matters for me is to bring out with your help the best package for amateur fishermen.
Gogo
Anyone remember that meeting in rabat with fisheries rapresentatives? Remember when they said mrejkba is allowed? According to gogo,it was included now. Where they lying? Are we going to discuss our future with liars? Lets get out of these discussions. Lets make an agreement with anybody who is willing to discard this bullshit!
Freedrive, I already answered that query in a previous post.
Can you please be more clear as to "particular fishing zone frequented by the big guns"? As proposed by cooperative representative boats can still be around using only rods.
Remember that this is still not final as we are still asking for deeper waters. This is the only controversal item on amateur fishing gear.
Gogo
Caldaland, I was present during the Rabat meeting. Yes it was mentioned. However if you can find imrejka in any Fisheries written law or legal notice then all we did we included an already approved fishing gear. Better then ommitting one.
Gogo
in that case,they were lying!
how can we trust them now?
for long lines there is a limit of 200 hooks and with 200 hooks i dont know how much fish you can catch. so this theory that we will catch a lot of fish with 200 hooks is nonsense. the commercial fisherman with 3000 or more hooks sometimes they dont catch a lot of fish so you can imagine how much one can catch with 200 hooks.
so with their arguments one can not catch fish for the whole family let alone for their friends. family of four will eat maybe 2 fish each, grandparents another 2 fish each so these are already 16 fish without mentioning other relatives and friends. I agree with them they they do not want us to sell fish because they have a very difficult job with lot of expenses but i do not agree that they are trying to impose on us that we have to also buy our fish.
Gogo you dont want us to discuss Commercial fisherman but they are making pressure to restrict our fishing and in previous posts you wrote that the commercial fisherman were not saying anything about us in the committee and The Gaffer was convinced by your reply but from the post you wrote what was discussed it is not true that they are not putting pressure against us in the committee. So Gogo are there more things that the Koperativa are putting pressure against us because at first you did not inform us well or maybe for you getting a restriction of the 100 meter depth does not make any difference but for many it makes difference
End of discussions now!
"Remember that this is still not final as we are still asking for deeper waters".
Bir-rispett lejn kulhadd,kif jista xi hadd jinnegozja f-isem id-dilettanti meta ma jikkonsultax ma l-istess dilettanti?
I read and reread my post, I dont think there is anything as personal provocation.
Yes of course I didnt mean the fishmongers, we dont have anything to do with fish mongers. I meant retail outlets, the fishing tackle shops, the electronics shops, the boating equipment, the engine parts and maintenance, the mechanics, the fuel distributors etc etc etc
It is nice to hear that we are allowed to use the surface long lines of 50 hooks (at least for me that should never have been taken away as its recreational.
Regarding the 200 hooks in deep waters is a joke if the commercial fisherman are objecting to it, they should know better.
Are there limits on the number of rods that can be deployed
Can live/dead bait be used
Is chumming allowed
Can outriggers be used
cadaland, no they were not liars. At the Rabat meeting were present I think two Fisheries officer whose job was to answer question from amateur fishermen and gather information for the process of revising the fisheries law. They referred their soundings then the FCD had to continue the job. As you well know there was a change in Directorship and proceedings stopped. Now things are on again.
Do you know what really worried me during that meeting called, maybe I am wrong, by MFF members? That, including the Fisheries officials ,me and five or six Federation committee members, in all we did not exceed 30 persons. Why MFF never formed a club or association which Joe (Gaffer) rightly strongly wanted to form and so be a recognized NGO and have all the right to attend with representatives in all doings related to Amateur fishing? Gaffer knows how much I helped him to set up his wish.
Ending discussions now means give a free hand to other stakeholders. Do you really think that the process will stop. I am afraid not, and I and my colleagues within the Federation committee are not prepared to be run over and be culprits of regulations which curtail amateur fishing.
Shanook "last and the most offensive is that those discussing and deciding what is best for the recreational fisherman are not the recreational fisherman themselves (or their representatives)."
I may have interpreted this statement wrongly but please tell me to whom it is directed?
There are no limits on rods used on a fishing trip. Live and/or dead bait has never been questioned. Of course it can be used.
Thank you for reminding me the outriggers. I will suggest that this fishing gear will also be inserted. See how these discussions although presented in a negative attitude can produce postive arguments.
An MFF member cadaland noted "Bir-rispett lejn kulhadd,kif jista xi hadd jinnegozja f-isem id-dilettanti meta ma jikkonsultax ma l-istess dilettanti?"
Can someone tell me to who my post on MFF are directed?
So far only three or four members posted on this issue. I am waiting for the other 2000.
Busumark said "So Gogo are there more things that the Koperativa are putting pressure against us because at first you did not inform us well or maybe for you getting a restriction of the 100 meter depth does not make any difference but for many it makes difference "
No up to now the longline depth has been the only controversal point. Do you know why it is controversal, simply because the amateur representative objected. Incidentally the amateur representative happened to be me who according to your sweeping statement does not effect me.
The problem is that I bother for others, while others, usually a few, tend to destroy what is good for them and unfortunely for their colleagues..
Gogo
Can we specify what is meant by jigging beyond 100m? Jigging as I know it with a rod/reel and braid tends to be done in 50-60m of water, maybe up to 100m max if setup right.
So are they referring to electric reels with a jigging function, deep bottom fishing ? And then restricting the number of hooks ? It doesn't seem very clear but perhaps am missing something.
The MFF association issues was discussed elsewhere and it was felt that there are already plenty of associations that people could join. The scope of the forum was knowledge sharing and education (Techniques , rules etc and reference point for guidance concerning regulations). For a long time the information on the fisheries site was outdated, then they had no working site whatsoever. If I remember correctly the Federation had no site for a few years and the MFF was the reference point doing its best to collate and establish communication channels.
MFF members are online members of a community, not like paid up members of a club/association. Many either don't want the hassle of joining a club, or have been disillusioned or for other reasons prefer something web based.
You won't find 2000 replies as people will be reading with caution, but you will see that thus topic has been read 800 times, and certainly not by the 10 ppl or so who have posted.
If indeed the Director wants the broadest possible audience, between the MFF, Federation and a Public well advertised national meeting this could be achieved.
I would like to remind everyone that personal comments or insults against individuaks will not be tolerated and you are all cautioned to review your posts carefully before submitting.
Thanks Skip
"An MFF member cadaland noted "Bir-rispett lejn kulhadd,kif jista xi hadd jinnegozja f-isem id-dilettanti meta ma jikkonsultax ma l-istess dilettanti?"
Can someone tell me to who my post on MFF are directed?"
Gogo,inti bdejt tinnegozja il-fond fejn jista jigi kalat konz,hafna qabel infurmajt lil membri ta MFF.Jien l-ewwel wiehed,ma kont naf xejn xhinu jigri,avolja membru fl-ghaqda tal-gzira,membru fil-federation u membru MFF.
Quote from: Gogo on November 20, 2012, 22:07:35 CET
Shanook "last and the most offensive is that those discussing and deciding what is best for the recreational fisherman are not the recreational fisherman themselves (or their representatives)."
I may have interpreted this statement wrongly but please tell me to whom it is directed?
There are no limits on rods used on a fishing trip. Live and/or dead bait has never been questioned. Of course it can be used.
Thank you for reminding me the outriggers. I will suggest that this fishing gear will also be inserted. See how these discussions although presented in a negative attitude can produce postive arguments.
An MFF member cadaland noted "Bir-rispett lejn kulhadd,kif jista xi hadd jinnegozja f-isem id-dilettanti meta ma jikkonsultax ma l-istess dilettanti?"
Can someone tell me to who my post on MFF are directed?
So far only three or four members posted on this issue. I am waiting for the other 2000.
Busumark said "So Gogo are there more things that the Koperativa are putting pressure against us because at first you did not inform us well or maybe for you getting a restriction of the 100 meter depth does not make any difference but for many it makes difference "
No up to now the longline depth has been the only controversal point. Do you know why it is controversal, simply because the amateur representative objected. Incidentally the amateur representative happened to be me who according to your sweeping statement does not effect me.
The problem is that I bother for others, while others, usually a few, tend to destroy what is good for them and unfortunely for their colleagues..
Gogo
Joe, if everyone of the 2000 comments, i doubt you will read them all :P
However, I think skip can give you an actual click and view rating.
We may setup a poll with gaffer and skip post and do a click counter that shows how much people agree with the matter. And i think you would see numbers, believe me.
I applaude your efforts you do Joe and as I know you for a long time, I am more than sure that you do what you are doing out of passion and you are not expecting anything in return (I hope :) )
But do not write off this forum gaffer, you cannot underestimate the power of internet. This media is stonger than any physical association Joe, as it is available live and Free at everyone's home.
This forum should participate in any discussion, it has the RIGHT of the people it represents. Lasty, Gaffer and SKip, should you need any immediate help or assistance let me know.
Nicholas
"We decided to start with fishing gear as we argued that if we do not find a concensus on this item then there is no need to carry on further discussions"
This was stated by yourself Gogo.
"Ending discussions now means give a free hand to other stakeholders. Do you really think that the process will stop. I am afraid not".
This too was stated by yourself Gogo.
IM TOTALLY BAFFLED!
What can I say Gogo, 'The Heat is ON' if I was you, I would call that blessed national meeting. There are a number of people here represented by their various clubs which make up the federation who have not been informed, or ever heard of, the discussions you are having in this sub-committee...I for one am a member of the B'buga fishing club, but no one asked me for my views!...So, Dr.Joe, why don't you call the national meeting?
Quote from: caldaland on November 20, 2012, 23:31:11 CET
"An MFF member cadaland noted "Bir-rispett lejn kulhadd,kif jista xi hadd jinnegozja f-isem id-dilettanti meta ma jikkonsultax ma l-istess dilettanti?"
Can someone tell me to who my post on MFF are directed?"
Gogo,inti bdejt tinnegozja il-fond fejn jista jigi kalat konz,hafna qabel infurmajt lil membri ta MFF.Jien l-ewwel wiehed,ma kont naf xejn xhinu jigri,avolja membru fl-ghaqda tal-gzira,membru fil-federation u membru MFF.
For long lines, bigboy can tell you that this rule is ridiculus.
So, if you deploy your longline say in 90m, do they expect that the long line is deployed in an even depth?
Depth varies and sometimes reefs go down to 130m.
So I would be breaking the rule???
If pro fisherman hear the rules being discussed, they would laugh in your faces or think you are taking them for a ride.
You either allow me to deploy long lines at any depth, or nothing.
And the best part in my opinion was that there is no consideration for the practices that do harm most.
Fisheries should revise recreational fishing law, true, but what about other practices like trawling? DOESN'T that NEED REVISION???If law in respect of recreational fishing is revised SENSIBLY and FAIRLY, it is good. But Other MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES SHOULD BE TACKLED.
Granitu,there is absolutely nothing to be revised re recreational fishing,except discarding some very stupid laws.Namely but not exclusively:prohibition of the "hgiega",registration of the "kopp",200 hooks for longline and others.
Ido agree with you on "You either allow me to deploy long lines at any depth, or nothing.".
or an option is to deploy long lines of just 100 hooks but any depths ,. one more question is can we have a long line winch on an S registerd boat??
because once i was stopped by a AFM and they made a panic ta vera about long line winch tal qih !!
legali ikolok wihed iva jew le??
ma jistax ikun tohrog fuq il bahar tistad u igibuk qisek kriminal !!!!
u min jamel hsara ta vera hadd ma jkelmu!!
u bi delizju nistad ax qatt ma bihejt xejn!
oqghod ghamel il-kompetizzjonijiet ghal karita,malajr tehoda l-grazzi!
if they want to save the fish and sea why they don;t down rate the engine power of trawlers that will push fisherman to use smaller nets and smaller (dirigenti), il verita i li li et jiqfu u jzarmaw ax diesel jiswa wisq u xejn aktr!
il verita i li il ligi az zajr u id dajjef u mux al kulhad!!
and if i cach 10kg of fish by using a long line once a week forsi jin kriminal and commercial boats that makes euro6000 a day thats not a problem uwx.
Quote from: caldaland on November 21, 2012, 01:27:38 CET
oqghod ghamel il-kompetizzjonijiet ghal karita,malajr tehoda l-grazzi!
Il-hajja ghalmitni Max li nqum, nitfarfar u nkompli ghaddej. Kieku nistenna l-grazzi, kieku mmut bla grazja!
Is-sajjieda professjonali jafu li ha jeqirduh bahar bit-tkarkir ma l-art u lampara bla kontroll.Allura l-ewwel iridu jeqirdu lilna imbghad inaqqu l-ahhar erba hutiet!
L-anqas jien min dilettant tal-grazzi izda,sincerament,qed nistenna naqra appogg min dawk li ghejnihom meta kellhom bzonn.
U bhal ma jghid il-king ta malta - il-kbir ghadu gej. Jekk qed tahsbu li din il-kwistjoni tal-knuz u snanar hija assurda, baqa hafna aktar cucati li qed jigu proposti f'dawn il-laqghat. Din tal-knuz u snanar ma hija xejn hdejn dak li qed jigi propost!
Tal-biza l-ahwa, tal biza.
kif ghid qabel,id-decissjonijiet qed jittiehdu f-kamra maghluqa bejn tnejn,tlieta min nies.
Forsi hemm min ghandu nteress li flok uliedna jaqbdu d-delizzju tas-sajd,jaqbdu id-delizzju tad-droga.Min jaf hux.
Haqqkom, kollha kemm intom hawn. Meta ridt norganizza l-forum bhala club, kont tajtkom ir-raguni ghala kien hemm bzonnu l-club. Hadd ma ried jghin. Anzi, kien hawn minn hada kontrija.
Hsibtuni qed nessagera. Fitxu sew, u issibu xkien lis-skop ghala ridt norganiza l-MFF bhala club. Kelli informazjoni fuq dak li kien gej.
http://maltafishingforum.com/talk/index.php/topic,3577.0.html (http://maltafishingforum.com/talk/index.php/topic,3577.0.html)
Bir-rispett lejn Gogo, kien hu li avzana lilna bhala MFF biex inkunu hemm prezenti mieghu. kien Gogo li avzana li gej il-gwaj, u kellu bzonn l-ghajnuna. Tana l-appogg shih biex norganizzaw l-MFF bhala club. Imma bhas-soltu, kien hawn minn fixkel, u issa galarija.
Kullhadd jafa l-ligi. Ma tistax tkun rikonoxxut bhala club jekk inti ma tkunx registrat bhala NGO mal kunsill Malti ghal isport. Jien kelli diga abboz ta statut ghal club tal-MFF lest, u approvat provisorjament.
Hsibtuni iblah lili? U meta nghidlikhom li l-kbir ghadu gej, miniex nesagera. Anzi, l-irgulija zzomni milli nkompli.
Pero, jekk hawn xi hadd interessat, ha nitfa l-abbozz tal-istatut, biex jekk kien hawn xi hadd li lili rani ta tfixkil biex jigi organizzat il-club, ikompli hu. Dan jien ktiibtu, fil-hin liberu tieghi. u qed naghmlu biex nurikhom li jien ghandi l-amur propja ghas-sajd, u nixtieq li l-kawza taghna tinstema. Dan l-abbozz ta statut miktub skond il-ligi, u skond kif jitlob li jigi registrat club tas-sajjieda dilettanti.
Komplu intom, jien publikament minn hawn qed inwedkhom l=appogg tieghi, u tal programm Fish On
As a small comment about this topic, I think we owe a thank you to people like Gogo, Frabel, Gaffer and Skip as were it not for your efforts & posts together with your energy and drive to keep this forum and discussion going, I for one would have had no idea of these changes in regulations / policies which are being discussed. I was involved in a number of NGOs / voluntary orgs in the past and know how frustrating it is when one is engaged with such a time consuming selfless and thankless role (fejn flok grazzi wiehed anzi jispicca jaqlaghha fuq rasu.) So thanks guys.
Re recreational fishing gear, I think Caldaland raised a very valid point - that of having the hgiega (dik tal-qarnit/sicc biex niftehmu) included too.
l-ahjar id-diskussjonijiet/laqghat jieqfu ghax vera l-kbir ghadu gej minn kif qed jidhru l-affarijiet.
Quote from: The_Gaffer on November 21, 2012, 02:06:14 CET
Haqqkom, kollha kemm intom hawn. Meta ridt norganizza l-forum bhala club, kont tajtkom ir-raguni ghala kien hemm bzonnu l-club. Hadd ma ried jghin. Anzi, kien hawn minn hada kontrija.
Hsibtuni qed nessagera. Fitxu sew, u issibu xkien lis-skop ghala ridt norganiza l-MFF bhala club. Kelli informazjoni fuq dak li kien gej.
http://maltafishingforum.com/talk/index.php/topic,3577.0.html (http://maltafishingforum.com/talk/index.php/topic,3577.0.html)
Bir-rispett lejn Gogo, kien hu li avzana lilna bhala MFF biex inkunu hemm prezenti mieghu. kien Gogo li avzana li gej il-gwaj, u kellu bzonn l-ghajnuna. Tana l-appogg shih biex norganizzaw l-MFF bhala club. Imma bhas-soltu, kien hawn minn fixkel, u issa galarija.
Kullhadd jafa l-ligi. Ma tistax tkun rikonoxxut bhala club jekk inti ma tkunx registrat bhala NGO mal kunsill Malti ghal isport. Jien kelli diga abboz ta statut ghal club tal-MFF lest, u approvat provisorjament.
Hsibtuni iblah lili? U meta nghidlikhom li l-kbir ghadu gej, miniex nesagera. Anzi, l-irgulija zzomni milli nkompli.
Pero, jekk hawn xi hadd interessat, ha nitfa l-abbozz tal-istatut, biex jekk kien hawn xi hadd li lili rani ta tfixkil biex jigi organizzat il-club, ikompli hu. Dan jien ktiibtu, fil-hin liberu tieghi. u qed naghmlu biex nurikhom li jien ghandi l-amur propja ghas-sajd, u nixtieq li l-kawza taghna tinstema. Dan l-abbozz ta statut miktub skond il-ligi, u skond kif jitlob li jigi registrat club tas-sajjieda dilettanti.
Komplu intom, jien publikament minn hawn qed inwedkhom l=appogg tieghi, u tal programm Fish On
So people pledge to help and you throw the towel?
@gogo... If I was negative you would know. I am realistic. How many people are on the sub committee. As stated by frabel IF there is one member from each, then that would be 6 members. We (amateur fisherman) have ONE representing us (gogo). That is 1 against 6. If there is a vote or objection what happens? I don't call that sub committee as a body that is representing the issues of amateur fishing.
And if you come up with ' but this is only a sub committee to present ideas' then its even worse as a sub committee should be entiterly made up of amateur fisherman. Then these ideas will be discussed further with other authorities to see if there are any conflicts or contradiction.
If in your opinion this is a well set committee and you are happy with the set up then yes please be free to take it as a personal provocation.
So just ten people commenting here and you are going to add the outriggers.....imagine how many other ideas and comments you would get if you had to consult the people concerned that is the amateur fisherman?
You remember the heated arguments we had at birzebbugia amateur fishing club, and how those present commented or contributed with their concerns or ideas, but the rest of the clubs didn't know what was happening. Well I hope this is not a repeat, as although the forum is made up of fishing enthusiasts, the amateur fishing clubs are made up of paying members and are affiliated with the federation. Up to now I have not heard anything from bugibba club.
I am one to agree with rules and regulation, so nothing wrong there. I repeat it is offensive that this sub committee is not entirely made up of amateur fisherman representatives.
Joe it's a good idea to organize the forum as a club BUT u think it makes a difference. We will be another club like all the others you are a member of one, I am a member of another but we both don't have the slightest information of what's going on behind closed doors from our clubs.
We will be part of the federation making it stronger maybe..... But just another club.
Correct me if I am wrong. (But let's not change the issue here if need be open and drag these to another post).
Shanook, you are right. I won't go into that here. But, I really do beleive we could make a difference, if I didn't I would not pursue it here. Maybe after all these years we need a change, new faces, new blood, new ideas, break the old habits, the network, the friendships, everything.
To all the rest of you here, Shanook's last post is a great example of why things will never change here, and why people in authority bulldoze over all of us because frankly speaking, they know our backbone is broken, and we will never change!
What needs to be done in order to have a better say and stop these discussions with immediate effect?
Tony shanook and Joe Gaffer. " We will be another club like all the others you are a member of one, I am a member of another but we both don't have the slightest information of what's going on behind closed doors from our clubs."
Note that all Associated club committees within the Federation have been informed and discussed this issue during the monthly Federation meetings. Tomorrow there is another Federation meeting.
In this preliminary stage little information is available and what is known has been posted on MFF. Now that all clubs will be preparing for their AGM (if I am well informed Gzira AGM is due mid December) this issue should be on the Agenda. Tony you know well that attendance during AGMs is very poor in relation to membership number. That is the reason why the Federation committee decided to post on MFF and get a feed back. Please note that since its inception the Federation organizes its AGM which is legally mandatory. These AGM are open to all amateur fishermen club members not only their committee representatives. Why despite notices send to all committees the floor does not exceed an average of sixty members including committee officials who in turn do not turn up as whole committee but the usual two or three? Members, in their majority, do not take an active part but are prepared, in their minority to critize everything while the rest just sit back. I do not think that Joe Gaffer turned his back but I can understand his disappointment. It is one's interest and love towards this hobby that makes you go on.
In the sub committee I am not 1 against 6. Where amateur fisherman gear is invoved the debate was between Amateur Fishing representative, cooperative representative and the FCD representative. One has to note that no votes are taken. Where there is a controversal issue as deep bottom long lines and no consensus reached between me and the cooperative then their proposal and my objection have been noted and if in the final draft the position is still so then the proposal and objection will be referred to higher quarters.
Quote from: Gogo on November 21, 2012, 11:30:33 CET
Tony shanook and Joe Gaffer. " We will be another club like all the others you are a member of one, I am a member of another but we both don't have the slightest information of what's going on behind closed doors from our clubs."
Note that all Associated club committees within the Federation have been informed and discussed this issue during the monthly Federation meetings. Tomorrow there is another Federation meeting.
In this preliminary stage little information is available and what is known has been posted on MFF. Now that all clubs will be preparing for their AGM (if I am well informed Gzira AGM is due mid December) this issue should be on the Agenda. Tony you know well that attendance during AGMs is very poor in relation to membership number. That is the reason why the Federation committee decided to post on MFF and get a feed back. Please note that since its inception the Federation organizes its AGM which is legally mandatory. These AGM are open to all amateur fishermen club members not only their committee representatives. Why despite notices send to all committees the floor does not exceed an average of sixty members including committee officials who in turn do not turn up as whole committee but the usual two or three? Members, in their majority, do not take an active part but are prepared, in their minority to critize everything while the rest just sit back. I do not think that Joe Gaffer turned his back but I can understand his disappointment. It is one's interest and love towards this hobby that makes you go on.
In the sub committee I am not 1 against 6. Where amateur fisherman gear is invoved the debate was between Amateur Fishing representative, cooperative representative and the FCD representative. One has to note that no votes are taken. Where there is a controversal issue as deep bottom long lines and no consensus reached between me and the cooperative then their proposal and my objection have been noted and if in the final draft the position is still so then the proposal and objection will be referred to higher quarters.
It is so old fashioned that you hold physical meetings Gogo when there is the internet today. Many do have their business and well busy with family and other personal matters.
I know of many comittees which are doing so now. Facebook, eg offers the possibility of private groups. I have even information of board meetings of huge companies held over the internet.
If these meetings were video conferenced (recorded) would be so much better and they can be viewed by everyone at home, at his/her disposal if he/she cannot attend.
Personally, I have to juggle with my studies, work commitments, family and girlfriend and other personal commitments. If I find some free time, I would rather be fishing... Afterall, recreational fishing is all about getting the 'big fish'
Granitu "I applaude your efforts you do Joe and as I know you for a long time, I am more than sure that you do what you are doing out of passion and you are not expecting anything in return (I hope "
I thank you for your gentle comment but why putting your statement in doubt at the end. You well know that people like me on these Fisheries Boards have no financial, physical or whatever advantage. Others may have, not in terms of direct financial renumeration, but as issues are part of their job. When I was still practicing as a GP I used to close doors and call for Board meetings.
So you seem to be saying that my and Federation posts on MMF are invisible and you seem to have the exclusive power to see them.. I am answering you and all the post already sent because I beleive in internet as a social media reaching to unlimited horizons. Well please decided some are pressing for a General National Meeting while others prefer the web.
I think both are necessary. However at this stage it is premature to call such a meeting as there is little information that the organizing panel can put up for discussion and the floor as I can see from what so far has been posted has no suggestions apart from objecting (rightly) to long line depths which the representative on the sub committee has already done.
Yes, Granitu you are right your fourth statement "Personally, I have to juggle with my studies, work commitments, family and girlfriend and other personal commitments. If I find some free time, I would rather be fishing... Afterall, recreational fishing is all about getting the 'big fish' " depicts the real picture. That is why in all amateur fishermen associations committee the average age is 55years on wards. However I have to note that these people have dedicated their lives for the past twenty years when they were much younger. I think you know how long I and a couple of others remained on B'Buga committee and resigned due to the usual personal and political attacks which unfortunely disrupts our society. Where is the new blood , within a few years most committees will be history. When the Federation President passed away we remained with an acting President for two years. Thanks to Frank (Frabel) who is a founder of the Federation the post could again be filled.
By the way can I know the real identity of Granitu.
Well I am hungry and now I have to feed myself. Bye
Gogo
Quote from: Gogo on November 21, 2012, 12:16:53 CET
Granitu "I applaude your efforts you do Joe and as I know you for a long time, I am more than sure that you do what you are doing out of passion and you are not expecting anything in return (I hope "
I thank you for your gentle comment but why putting your statement in doubt at the end. You well know that people like me on these Fisheries Boards have no financial, physical or whatever advantage. Others may have, not in terms of direct financial renumeration, but as issues are part of their job. When I was still practicing as a GP I used to close doors and call for Board meetings.
So you seem to be saying that my and Federation posts on MMF are invisible and you seem to have the exclusive power to see them.. I am answering you and all the post already sent because I beleive in internet as a social media reaching to unlimited horizons. Well please decided some are pressing for a General National Meeting while others prefer the web.
I think both are necessary. However at this stage it is premature to call such a meeting as there is little information that the organizing panel can put up for discussion and the floor as I can see from what so far has been posted has no suggestions apart from objecting (rightly) to long line depths which the representative on the sub committee has already done.
Yes, Granitu you are right your fourth statement "Personally, I have to juggle with my studies, work commitments, family and girlfriend and other personal commitments. If I find some free time, I would rather be fishing... Afterall, recreational fishing is all about getting the 'big fish' " depicts the real picture. That is why in all amateur fishermen associations committee the average age is 55years on wards. However I have to note that these people have dedicated their lives for the past twenty years when they were much younger. I think you know how long I and a couple of others remained on B'Buga committee and resigned due to the usual personal and political attacks which unfortunely disrupts our society. Where is the new blood , within a few years most committees will be history. When the Federation President passed away we remained with an acting President for two years. Thanks to Frank (Frabel) who is a founder of the Federation the post could again be filled.
By the way can I know the real identity of Granitu.
Well I am hungry and now I have to feed myself. Bye
Gogo
Joe, I applauded your efforts - really!
This is my post -
I
QuoteI applaude your efforts you do Joe and as I know you for a long time, I am more than sure that you do what you are doing out of passion and you are not expecting anything in return (I hope :) )
I was only joking with I hope - a smiley face :) :) :) means that. The younger age use this type of communication. ;) (this is a wink). And frankly, if you or gaffer would gain something out of this - you would have deserved it in view of your efforts.
QuoteSo you seem to be saying that my and Federation posts on MMF are invisible and you seem to have the exclusive power to see them.. I am answering you and all the post already sent because I beleive in internet as a social media reaching to unlimited horizons. Well please decided some are pressing for a General National Meeting while others prefer the web.
I think both are necessary.
I seem to be saying - that is utterly incorrect - I never said that. I SAID that I as a member of the Birzebbuga federation, I was never informed of these discussions going on until i got to know on MFF. These meetings should be public also in your interest. Everyone would recognize your efforts. Also, it can be that this thing is way too big to handle by yourself. Personally, a lawyer should get into this... and if you want, I know to who to speak to.
If i had to look on the bright side, i say that at least I got to know. Not from the expected sources, but got to know.
There are good things going on. I have seen that the website has been revamped too which is good.
I never Joe put your dedication into discussion and of the committee. When I paid the membership, the treasurer had promised I would receive a magazine and info by post - I received nothing. It is ok if things do not happen, i did not make a fuss out of it. But that is the truth.
Bdw, I had introduced myself to you via personal message long TIME ago. I know you for a long time too, having yourself been our PERSONAL FAMILY doctor for years when you practised your profession as GP.
But i do not mind identifying myself, see the personal message I sent you. Naturally, this is internet, and divulging info freely Joe is risky at times.
For those vessels registered as MFC, MFB and MFA
http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/en/newsdetails/news/national/New-procedures-for-payment-of-fishing-vessels-licences-announced-20121121
at least it will be easier to renew the licence since there was always a lot of people since all the licences were renewed during december
Quote from: busumark on November 21, 2012, 15:39:22 CET
at least it will be easier to renew the licence since there was always a lot of people since all the licences were renewed during december
Agreed
Jidher li m'hawnx bizzejjed interess mis-sajjieda dilettanti fuq din il-kwistjoni.
Tajjeb,mela dak li ha jigri hu dan.Certu ammont ta dilettanti jimxu mar regoli il-godda,u ma jaqbdux huta,u il-kumplament,jigu jaqghu w jqumu mir-regolamenti u jkunu vvantaggjati fil-qbid tal-hut.Mhux ghax se jifdal xi kwantita ta hut taghfux. L-ghazla f-idejkhom!
Quote from: caldaland on November 21, 2012, 16:12:13 CET
Jidher li m'hawnx bizzejjed interess mis-sajjieda dilettanti fuq din il-kwistjoni.
Tajjeb,mela dak li ha jigri hu dan.Certu ammont ta dilettanti jimxu mar regoli il-godda,u ma jaqbdux huta,u il-kumplament,jigu jaqghu w jqumu mir-regolamenti u jkunu vvantaggjati fil-qbid tal-hut.Mhux ghax se jifdal xi kwantita ta hut taghfux. L-ghazla f-idejkhom!
Max, Aw interess. Xi tridhom jaghmlu n-nies...ahna nistaw naraw it-traffiku li qed tiggenera dan it-topic. In nies qed jaqraw, x'aktarx with a silent nod of approval qed jaqblu, u xi uhud jghidu tahhom ukoll. Hemm cirkostanzi ohra ukoll ghala in-nies qed jibqaw lura milli jikkumentaw, kullhadd jafhom dawn.
Bis-silent nod ma terbahx gwerrer joe.In-nies trid turi id-disapprovazzjoni w semma lehina.Tinsiex,kull garra taf tiswa vot,u il-voti daqt jasal zmienhom.
Caldaland what is it you dont agree about in the new regulations (which at least I dont know what they are).
I agree that we fish with unlimited rods and reels, I agree to use imrejkba, I agree to use Hgiega, I agree to the fish sizes for conservation purposes, I agree to use outriggers, live/dead bait, I agree to use surface lines with say 50 hooks.
I dont agree with the dept limit for bottom long line.
I dont agree that the cooperative and FDA dictate what we use and dont use, can or cannot do.
If there is anything that we can do to alter this apart from talking here, I am game lets do it. But I have voiced my opinion and I will not keep at it as I know what happened last time we had a problem like this, things were done even though the majority of the Birzebbugia members were agaisnt it.
if there is anything that i missed let me know.
@busu I think if you read that notice it says to indicate what gears can be used........that is a very dangerous statement. If in our opinion electric reels can be used and if the sub committee forgets to state it, it means that you wont be able to use it.
Before it used to be what you cannot use.. that is my old licence used to say I cannot use xbiki u parit. so all the rest I could use. NOW its going to be what I can use (very very dangerous).
I have to agree with Tony (Shanook) here. It is better to only indicate what CANNOT be used, than to list down, black on white, what CAN be used.
shanook Finally a good start.
Good as to depth limit for bottom lines from our end all agreed unless someone (amateur fisherman) says the contrary, that is not acceptable as proposed.
So far the cooperative did not dictate but proposed and in turn I proposed differently. The two proposals on bottom lines are pending for further discussions.
I proposed the inclusion of rod and reel, imrejka etc... which were unanimously agreed to. Yes again thanks Tony I should add manual and electric reel. See how things can work out. Is this not consultation with all those that want to help.
Yes Tony once again you are right. The problem with the old law was that most of the Fishing gear was unknown at the time and has to be upgraded to the new technology now available.
There is my call for help. Maybe there is a gear which is known by few people as imrejkba and will be left out. Maybe a gear is just missed as happened with outriggers.
Look most of the other terms of reference are straight forward and easy to deal with. This issue is so extensive and effects amateur fishermen that we have to pick on any gear and be mentioned. That is why I insisted to start with Fishing gear so that while going to other items one has ample time to tackle this issue.
So let sort out the bad from evil and then tackle the evil with all our might.
Joe(Gaffer) what can be used means without a license. This was always so see S.L.10.12 1934. Amateur Fisherman are banned from catching Tuna but a license can be issued for a particular season as is now happening.
Gogo
When it comes to equipment, as rightly suggested previously, I think it would be easier and safer to list the items that cannot be used instead of the items that can be used.
Quote from: benri on November 21, 2012, 17:53:52 CET
When it comes to equipment, as rightly suggested previously, I think it would be easier and safer to list the items that cannot be used instead of the items that can be used.
Legally that would not be the best option. Loop holes would be created.
Benri "When it comes to equipment, as rightly suggested previously, I think it would be easier and safer to list the items that cannot be used instead of the items that can be used. "
the term of reference related to fishing gear in Maltese reads 'X'Tip ta' sajd ghandu jigi kkunsidrat sajd rikreaxxjonali'. That is the reference the subcommittee his bound to discuss.
However apart from indicating which gears are considered as recreational, we also pointed out which are not, so not allowed. In law there was never mention of recreational fisheries. There are a set of fishing impliments (fishing gear so called at the time) which are with no license. All others are with a license.
Gogo
Quote from: caldaland on November 21, 2012, 16:12:13 CET
Jidher li m'hawnx bizzejjed interess mis-sajjieda dilettanti fuq din il-kwistjoni.
Tajjeb,mela dak li ha jigri hu dan.Certu ammont ta dilettanti jimxu mar regoli il-godda,u ma jaqbdux huta,u il-kumplament,jigu jaqghu w jqumu mir-regolamenti u jkunu vvantaggjati fil-qbid tal-hut.Mhux ghax se jifdal xi kwantita ta hut taghfux. L-ghazla f-idejkhom!
Ma naqbilx mieghek habib. Tahseb li mhux kull dilettant tas-sajd huwa mugugh b'li qed jinghad?! Izda mhux necessarjament kulhadd huwa kapaci li jikteb jew jesprimi ruhu fuq il-forum. Kif qal tajjeb Gaffer, aktar jistghu jghidu l-administrators ta' dan il-forum kemm qed jinqara dan it-topic milli kemm qed jiktbu nies direttament.
Granitu please specify further even in a pm if u want to....
@gogo I still cannot see the exercise of this gear thingy as it seems that things are the same as before. The gears used by the amateur fisherman was never ever in conflict with the professional full time fisherman. Even when we troll for Albacore, the fisheries dept now knows that out of 50 boats that took part in the competition, I think only ONE tuna was caught. I dont think that will hurt the professional.
Gogo I still cant figure out your reasoning. So you accept that the cooperative proposes things that appertain to us amateur fisherman. This is like saying someone comes to my house and proposes how i run my house...I would send him to hell (and I am being nice here).
These things should be discussed in our house only and when they are contested by others we will defend and bring our arguments.
Gogo you are older than me and you know how things start first its just to list, then it will be list with a licence and then puff.............its all gone. like what happened with the 25 mile zone for PTF. it was there but not enforced then came the Fisheries and instead of taking care of the amateur fisherman it enforced the Valletta registration. As a matter of fact the fisheries did not accept the our registration without having paid the Valletta registration...ha doing the job of another dept.
@gogo...quote ''the term of reference related to fishing gear in Maltese reads 'X'Tip ta' sajd ghandu jigi kkunsidrat sajd rikreaxxjonali'. That is the reference the subcommittee his bound to discuss.'' unquote
So if I had to say, everything except.....(and i list the items that cannot be used).
Wouldnt that be the same.
With the system of listing the items that can be used is dangerous as if you leave something out its gone forever.
How about Hjut (vertical long lines) did we list that????
Tony shanook,i dont agree with any and all rules that are imposed on us,from those that,because of greed,wants to crush us.Simple and easy.These meetings should be stopped immediately!Without further delay.On the contrary,we should discuss new rules and regulations that benefits us.After all,WE ARE NOT THE CULPRITS THAT IS FINISHING OFF THE SEA!!!!!!!!!So,let us stop this bullshit whilst producing one unified front.
shanook, you "cannot see the exercise of this thing". The reason is that most members as soon as I posted the first post started mounting arguments over arguments that we cannot fish, fish stocks will be depleted, that and that sector is against the amateur fishermen, people taking part are incompetent or for their advantage and so on. the truth is that this exercise is a review of the present legislation and situation with the aim to approve and add what is missing.
Again you are right " as it seems that things are the same as before". Of course things are the same. There is no plot against the amateur fishermen but to legally (written in law) insert the Amateur Fishermen with all their rights in the FCD. Once this is done then no sector or whoever is will be able to manipulate amateur fishermen.
Cooperatives have the right to propose but not to dictate as was the previous old attitude. If they propose we counter propose where things are detrimental to our cause. As you well know only one issue is pending.
To contest and defend their must first be rules and regulations not just verbal agreements. Also I think things are being discussed in our house and we are bringing our arguments and this is manifest by MFF posts.
Well the boat registration is another issue which will be soon dealt with. At present there are anomalies at legislation level which have to be cleared. This is the reason why there are two legal counsellors (lawyers) on the subcommittee. Yes the muddle and irregularities that exist in registering boats is also being tackled. I hope that now one does not start shooting on TM and FCD. The time will arrive. See Tony, in a meeting discussion heated as may be one can still discuss but on any forum so many relevant and irrelevant issues are rightly and wrongly interpreted that most people get confused. So if we keep the argument in question maybe those colleagues out there will understand what is on.
without first having notion of TM legislation.
Bottom longlines include horizontal and vertical, shallow and deep Longlines. There where we have a controversy as regards deep bottom lines i.e for stone bass (Dott) and bazuk (blue spotted bream).
Gogo
Malvizzu,bil-qari biss ma nirbhux battalji.Kulhadd jaf jikteb u jaqra ghax kieku ma jidholx f'dan il-forum.M'hemx ghalfejn jinkitbu poeziji,kelma jew tnejn ta kuragg bizzejjed.
Gogo,i wish to ask you a professional question.As you are a medical doctor,what do you think i should take as,your last post drove me crazy?
1 no i cannot see the reason as there is no reason. not because I am influenced by other posts. I speak my mind (like me or hate me, but u know where i stand and i keep my stand).
2 we had the regulations which stated what we cannot use and they were accepted by one and sundry.
3 if the department found it necessary to do an exercise than that exercise should be done solely by Amateur fisherman (then when that is done) others can make their proposals.
4 this is not an inhouse discussion on the forum its an open to all discussion where anyone can see and read and be ready for whatever we say or do. I can say things in our club which I wouldnt say here.
5 this is the easiest part (fishing gear) and we are finding problems imagine when things get worse like number of fish kept (keep bag). etc etc.
I repeat my only OBJECTION and insult is that these are NOT from amateur fisherman to amateur fisherman but there are outsiders interfering in our business. I cannot accept that sorrrrrrry its agaisnt my basic principles, no matter what you or others say.
I also agree that we should be told what not to use and not what to use. Like someone already mentioned if something is left out because it was forgotten what will happen or if a new type of fishing gear for recreational fishing is invented what will happen will be law be updated every time ?
@ Granitu mentioning what can be used will have more loopholes for the authorities to use against us.
Quote from: busumark on November 21, 2012, 20:22:32 CET
I also agree that we should be told what not to use and not what to use. Like someone already mentioned if something is left out because it was forgotten what will happen or if a new type of fishing gear for recreational fishing is invented what will happen will be law be updated every time ?
@ Granitu mentioning what can be used will have more loopholes for the authorities to use against us.
Guys no need to PM i will explain here.
Law is only effective if:-
It is detailed in what you can do and what you cannot do;
Is updated regularly
This is one of the problem Maltese law is facing, and is highly regarded by lawyers as it is very easy to get away even if you break the law. Also consider other practices that can be used in the future (eg imagine if some greedy person.. uses this: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_ultrasonic_waves_kill_microorganisms
Now, imagine you specify the equipment you cannot use only and any other equipment not mentioned is legal. When new equipment or old equipment is not included in the list but in all matters of ethics and fact it is non recreational, there is nothing that exclusively makes it illegal.
E.g. Imagine the law does not include in the illegal list gangmu in equipment illegal to use. this could be used by some fisherman and they will not be breaking the law.
In these situation, the law normally refers to appendices to the law that provide a list and can be updated any time at the discretion of the fishing director in consultation with the stakeholders (representatives of the fishing association)
Remember, when the law is vague and difficult to understand, the authorities will start interpreting law the way they understand it. Eventually, if god forbid there are court cases, if the magistrates deem the law is inconsistent, they will deliver sentences based on their judgement and start referring to CASE LAW (Court rulings) and not the law because of its vagueness.
Better have a detailed and well explained list that can be regularly updated than start to relying on case law. When case law comes in, only lawyers benefit as it is subject to interpretation.
If you need further explanation or have any queries let me know.
Simply put,all discussions must stop immediately,until everything is discussed by amateur fishermen for amateur fishermen.PUNTO E BASTA!
Granitu puts the real picture at which state of confusion certain laws are.
Take a look at this:
Small ship regulations.
Article 1. (3) (b) to regulate water based recreational activities in the internal and territorial waters of Malta;
Questions:
Is recreational fishing included? I think this is a recreational water based activity.
If yes where are the fishing regulations with penalties etc within the subsidiary Legislation 499.52 of Transport Malta?
Such regulations are found in subsidiary legislation of 425.07 of FCD.
So at this stage who is responsible to regulate recreational fishing?
There are similar anomalies which have to be legally thrashed out in the sub committee with legal advisors. This is not an issue which has been brought up by cooperatives or amateur fishermen but by legal advisors of TM and FCD. However these legal changes concern us. Therefore it is important that representatives of both stakeholders are present to possibly avoid a repeat of the past when amateur fishermen representative meet only the FCD and did not know what was happening with the then MMA./ Fisheries Department meetings.
Gogo
Quote from: Gogo on November 22, 2012, 08:31:52 CET
Granitu puts the real picture at which state of confusion certain laws are.
Take a look at this:
Small ship regulations.
Article 1. (3) (b) to regulate water based recreational activities in the internal and territorial waters of Malta;
Questions:
Is recreational fishing included? I think this is a recreational water based activity.
If yes where are the fishing regulations with penalties etc within the subsidiary Legislation 499.52 of Transport Malta?
Such regulations are found in subsidiary legislation of 425.07 of FCD.
So at this stage who is responsible to regulate recreational fishing?
There are similar anomalies which have to be legally thrashed out in the sub committee with legal advisors. This is not an issue which has been brought up by cooperatives or amateur fishermen but by legal advisors of TM and FCD. However these legal changes concern us. Therefore it is important that representatives of both stakeholders are present to possibly avoid a repeat of the past when amateur fishermen representative meet only the FCD and did not know what was happening with the then MMA./ Fisheries Department meetings.
Gogo
Exactly gogo the question here would rather be what is recreation activity not just recreational fishing as the picture can extend to boating too. i dont have the small ships law at hand so i simplified the explanation. But the example is perfect
Granitu I think you are young yes. Laws no matter how you do them are there for interpretation. That's why there are lawyers.
From the amateur side we have to take care of our side and not to see what is best for tm or fcd.
Using your argument if we state what cannot be used and something is left out like in your example gamgmu then it is added later yes simply by the directorate to meet with concerned and hey presto done....... Very nice but does it happen that way here in Malta......no way....when the regulations were imposed on us.....5/6 years ago (when the MFB) were created and we seem to have had to wait till now to get a change in the simple surface lines, in the hgiega.....imagine if we leave the hydraulic winch for the bottom lines......that will take forever..... Your lack of experience in how things work here and how much pressure the powers that be can excert, make you reason that way.
Take a simple matter as to how the sub committee is made up. The cooperative which has nothing to do with recreational fishing is PROPOSING what we should or shouldn't do.
It would be a simple matter if the directorate wants to change the members (not gogo) of the subcommittee and have just the people concerned only.
I think the brief for this sub committee speaks clear what is to be discussed. This is like saying lets discuss the needs of Nurses and I will be placed on that board wouldn't that be an insult to the profession. (Yes I am affected by the dos and don'ts of nurses as when I go to hospital they are the first contact, but that doesn't give me the right to speak in their name)
There will be the brief...the needs of pensioners and then when 'the pensioners needs' and 'the nurses needs, conflict.......then we talk, discuss, propose and decide.
Quote from: shanook on November 22, 2012, 09:52:32 CET
Granitu I think you are young yes. Laws no matter how you do them are there for interpretation. That's why there are lawyers.
From the amateur side we have to take care of our side and not to see what is best for tm or fcd.
Using your argument if we state what cannot be used and something is left out like in your example gamgmu then it is added later yes simply by the directorate to meet with concerned and hey presto done....... Very nice but does it happen that way here in Malta......no way....when the regulations were imposed on us.....5/6 years ago (when the MFB) were created and we seem to have had to wait till now to get a change in the simple surface lines, in the hgiega.....imagine if we leave the hydraulic winch for the bottom lines......that will take forever..... Your lack of experience in how things work here and how much pressure the powers that be can excert, make you reason that way.
Take a simple matter as to how the sub committee is made up. The cooperative which has nothing to do with recreational fishing is PROPOSING what we should or shouldn't do.
Shanook, even if young, i know how things work in Malta. However, you always hope and do things that they will change in the better.
I can use the same argument as you are doing. Basically you are too old and have been taken too much for a ride and rightly lost hope my friend. I am young and still hope and want to go to the better, because it is the right thing to do. Christ sake, I cannot give up on anything at 23 years of age.
If I had to use your attitude, I would stop going to work. Because sometimes I am underpaid or not paid at all, and it is more worth living on the govn. Benefits. But i choose not to. In life I was taught that you choose your attitude and behavior and you set your limits, not others.
Also, I may ask you, but if we lose hope that things will change to the better, why are we bothering?
Lawyers have their job and i think you have been long enough in the trade to understand that which ever law you draft, it will be never perfect.
I give tax advises to clients shanook residing in foreign jurisdictions that update the law frequently and yet they miss out points. The world is not perfect, and the law will never be. I earn money from interpreting the law, Shanook!
Ultimately, it sums up to our behavior, how much we respect the law and the authorities... how much they impose and deter law breaking activities. There are authorities in Malta who are very efficient shanook and there is always a chance for change.
shanook "Take a simple matter as to how the sub committee is made up. The cooperative which has nothing to do with recreational fishing is PROPOSING what we should or shouldn't do".
Do you mean that when regulations dealing with Nets( xbieki) and trawling (tkarkir) are revivsed during the Fisheries Board Meeting then I should remain silent or leave the room. If so that will releive me from most arguments during such meetings. These gears are prohibited to amateur fishermen and are solely used by commercial fishermen. Once again thank you.
Gogo
This discussion reflects the sentiments and passion that we feel towards our hobby, but it also highlights the sacrifice in terms of time and dedication being made by Gogo. First and foremost in his role on the board and sub-committee but also by taking the time to read and reply to the various comments. When you are doing these things for free, it is understandable to sometimes say to yourself "Why am I troubling myself with all this hassle....and for what....". We must applaud, appreciate and support Gogo's efforts by providing constructive critism, guidance, concerns and even ideas that can be used during his discussions.
Nonetheless I do feel that the majority on this sub-committee should be recreational recreational representatives, rather than the minority even if at this stage the cooperatives aren't objecting much, they still have a larger presence both on the sub-committee and overall board.
I am know I am rushing ahead, but perhaps Dr. Joe you could jot down a note that AFM and TM personnel who will be on active duty patrolling are seas will need to be made fully aware and be fully briefed ideally through training courses once things have been finalised.
Due to the confusing state of the currently rules and regulations they have no clear idea of what they should be enforcing and sometimes really get themselves and ultimately us in a real mess once they bring out their enforcement 'arm'.
I also agree that coming up with a list of approved gear can be dangerous for the reasons discussed.....like outriggers there are things like Spreader bars, artifical birds, kites used to suspend live baits etc and so the list gets pretty endless.
I know its been a long time in the making to get this sub-committee formed, but equally well is there a similar committee addressing the commercial sector? I know there are changes going on like trawlers being scrapped etc but potentially the largest number of vessels are MFBs and they are the ones who need the most amount of regulation and the legal notices are outdated for that sector as well. Seems like a revamp across the board is needed and would probably produce a more effective outcome.
Recreational fishers are understandbly keen to protect their hobby, but I say this to everyone reading this topic, you must all appreciate that given the rampant practice of selling one's catch especially when it comes to the larger pelagic species, we are not viewed in a very good light. During the Alungi season people are trying to offload their catch to cover expenses, same goes for deep bottom fishing, jigging, spearfishing etc. There's no point beating around the bush because I know this is what Dr. Joe often has to face during his meetings when the cooperatives throw this argument across the table. It is a double edged sword with people saying why should I respect the rules if the commercial sector are always breaking the rules themselves, catching undersized fish, selling at sea etc etc.
I fear that an argument on 'selling one's catch' would open up Pandora's box. Everybody has a skeleton in his cupboard, everybody. Some have one, some have 2, others have many.
Thank you Nick for your personal comments in my regards and also for pointing out certain attitudes which I dare not mention in this forum.
As to the sub committee as its name implies is derived from the Main Fisheries Board, created to discuss specific items which influence certain stakeholders and is dismantled once its job is finished.
The Fisheries Board has representatives from two cooperatives (4), Fish Farms (2) Fish retailers (2), Mepa (1), FCD (3 including chairman), Amateur Fishermen (1), AFM (1) and TM (1), Notary Tonio Spiteri as part of the legal counsellors. Hope I included every sector. MTA is not present.
So the sub committee had to be set up from sectors that recreational fishing can influence. One from each namely amateur fisherman, cooperatives, TM, FCD, AFM and chairman present on the Fisheries Board had to be nominated. Since recreational fishing is also practiced in the Tourism sector a representative was nominated from MTA. One should note that no where in law is mentioned Fishing Tourism. The Diving Harpoon Sector also is missing as this club is not associated with the Amateur Fishing Federation. So their representatives have been asked to participate and be consulted.
As to Commercial Fisheries yes that is the main scope of the Fisheries Board where there are six persons representing cooperatives and Fish Farms together with those mentioned above. Here I am heavily out numbered and sometimes massacred even with insults as being a medical doctor, etc.......
As to "like outriggers there are things like Spreader bars, artificial birds, kites used to suspend live baits etc" since in my opinion these are used in trolling and trolling (rixa) is allowed such equipment is allowed. To be more clear one adds 'all equipment used in trolling'.
Joe (Gaffer) when we learn to denounce our skeletons then that would be the day when we can fight back without fear any adversary.
Remember even IGFA defines recreational fishing as non profit making.
Maybe that is what Shanook meant in an earlier post by discussing issues in one's house.
Gogo
Joe (Gaffer) when we learn to denounce our skeletons then that would be the day when we can fight back without fear any adversary.
Remember even IGFA defines recreational fishing as non profit making.
Maybe that is what Shanook meant in an earlier post by discussing issues in one's house.
Gogo
Gogo, minn jgholli idejh, kullhadd ghandu xi jxomm!!
Nispera li ta haddiehor ma jintinx iktar minn taghna.
In other words Gogo, everybody has skeletons in his cupboards.
This is my last post in this thread..it seems that there is a consensus that others should propose and oppose what we should or shouldnt do. And this in the sub comittee imagine what is going to happen later.......ommi ma. opps shouldnt be negative u le dawn jaqbzu ghalina. kollox sew.
Granitu WTF are u talking about, I never objected to new regulations or whatever, my only concern is to do things that wont hurt the amateur fisherman. When you give advice to your clients you make sure that your client makes the best use of the laws (you dont go agaisnt it, u just make the best use of it) and thats what I want, to make the best use of the law. Your argument was on the TM side what if they dont say we cannot use this and that. heck that will be their problem but we are safeguarded. On the other hand if we leave something out it will be our problem and we will have to sort it out savvy
Thanks a lot for listening to my lamentations........ I will now say Good Luck to all and sundry.
Joe Gaffer you know me and I know you. We have to work side by side. Maybe you are right that 'everybody' has skeletons in his cupboard. So why not close this discussion and be happy with our skeletons.
For sure I have one which constantly corrodes me.
I will never organize or take part as officer in Amateur Fishing Competitions unless .......... you know what.
I do not expect a reply preferably not.
Shanook I do not agree that you close your contribution on this thread. You have different ideas who can propose or not to the sub committee. OK that is your opinion. I do not know how a sub committee of one or more person/s with only the amateur fisherman proposals can work. These proposals will go to higher level and................? as many a time happened in the past. However your contribution is greatly appreciated.
Gogo
Quote from: shanook on November 22, 2012, 13:26:45 CET
I am not going to bother posting anymore in this thread..it seems that there is a consensus that others should propose and oppose what we should or shouldnt do. And this in the sub comittee imagine what is going to happen later.......ommi ma. opps shouldnt be negative u le dawn jaqbzu ghalina. kollox sew.
Granitu WTF are u talking about, I never objected to new regulations or whatever, my only concern is to do things that wont hurt the amateur fisherman. When you give advice to your clients you make sure that your client makes the best use of the laws (you dont go agaisnt it, u just make the best use of it) and thats what I want, to make the best use of the law. Your argument was on the TM side what if they dont say we cannot use this and that. heck that will be their problem but we are safeguarded. On the other hand if we leave something out it will be our problem and we will have to sort it out savvy
Thanks a lot for listening to my lamentations........ I will now say Good Luck to all and sundry.
When there is an imminent change going on it is useless being destructive. What really counts is that the appropriate studies are done and we hope that we can drive the changes in law to:-
Protect our decreasing fish stock ( you remember ages ago how more productive and full of life seas were, today???)
Accept we are fellow enthusaist and maybe the authorities ease off on some currently banned fishing practices like trolling for tuna (lately, it has been recognized that tuna stocks are on the increase) - this was banned as authorities do not trust us.
Regulate some so called recreational fisherman that instead they work at sea.
I never told you object regulations. BUT YOU FEAR CHANGE. and change is a part of life my friend. I won't comment on the rest as it is common sense shanook. I am not on TM side by any way. It is one of the highly inefficient dept in malta together with the fisheries. We should all hope they wake up and consider more stakeholders, but to do so, we have to keep an eye of what is done and trust them.
If something is left out shanook out of what you can use and what you cannot use it becomes a grey area. And still, it is a very hard miss. We mainly fish with artificial lures, live bait, dead bait, rods, reels, lines, some bouges traps and others... When you say artificial lures, you cover jigging, squids for lampuki, ect...
The ultimate result should lead that the authority realizes that some business (full time and part time) fishing practice is beyond 'sustainable fishing' and hopefully acts on it.
Then maybe you, myself and the generations to come can enjoy marine wildlife.
Quote from: shanook on November 22, 2012, 13:26:45 CET
I am not going to bother posting anymore in this thread..it seems that there is a consensus that others should propose and oppose what we should or shouldnt do. And this in the sub comittee imagine what is going to happen later.......ommi ma. opps shouldnt be negative u le dawn jaqbzu ghalina. kollox sew.
Granitu WTF are u talking about, I never objected to new regulations or whatever, my only concern is to do things that wont hurt the amateur fisherman. When you give advice to your clients you make sure that your client makes the best use of the laws (you dont go agaisnt it, u just make the best use of it) and thats what I want, to make the best use of the law. Your argument was on the TM side what if they dont say we cannot use this and that. heck that will be their problem but we are safeguarded. On the other hand if we leave something out it will be our problem and we will have to sort it out savvy
Thanks a lot for listening to my lamentations........ I will now say Good Luck to all and sundry.
Whatever gave you that impression Tony, there is no consensus. I for one have been advocating for these discussions to stop from the very beginning of this thread. I will make these representations when the MFF meet representatives of the PL and PN.
I think there is too much going on behind the recreational fisherman's back. There seems to be a hidden agenda somewhere...I'm jut not convinced yet if this is coming from the FCD, the cooperatives, the other stakeholders, or all of them together. But, there is something going on for sure.
You simply do not start discussions with a number of entites 2 to 3 months before a general election. Which discussions will have an impact on 1000s of recreational fishermen. Something is not right. I still stand by what I said, being thaqt it is sheer arrogance on the part of all stakeholders involved, including Dr. Joe, to be discussing rules and regulations governing recreational fishermen, and THERE IS NOT ONE RECREATIONAL FISHERMAN PRESENT IN THESE DISCUSSIONS. Correct me if I am wrong Gogo, but your boat is registered MFB, correct?
For cryin out loud gaffer.....................Ive been begging you to give me the chance to explain to you what that hidden agenda is!!!!!!!
Whats keeping you from having a chat with me? Its totally free of charge.
send me your mobile number via PM and I'll call u now
i will call you in a minute
Joe(Gaffer) "There seems to be a hidden agenda somewhere...I'm jut not convinced yet if this is coming from the FCD, the cooperatives, the other stakeholders, or all of them together. But, there is something going on for sure."
Please bring forward the hidden agenda ( seems to be in the pipe line) , your convincement with facts and decide at whom we should aim. These are all perceptions which one may have but cannot be pronounced as facts. If there is a hidden agenda I will be the first to denounce it to the subcommittee.
I have been fishing since aged 11. Had a 'S' registered fregatina at that age. Then a F267, if I remember correctly, Kajjik. 35 years ago my present wooden 30 foot boat as PTF later changed to MFB. I never used nets, trawling or non selective gears. I apply for FAD and always caught Lampuki and fanfri even (once upon a time) in their hundreds by hook and line (rixa and konz). Deep bottom fishing always attracted me. I am at sea all year round and so I manage to catch my quota as required. I do not know what will happen in the future as due to increasing age and lack of fish stocks I may drop to MFC category. Do you think that will then make me more competent to act on behalf of Amateur Fishermen?
Since 1987 I was always in the fisheries board (irrespective of change of governments) and always represented recreational fisherman. From the inception of the Federation I was voted Secretary and despite elections every three years the post of secretary and president were never contested. Tell me why?
If there is somebody prepared to enter into the Federation committee he/she is freely to do so, provided a committee member of an affiliated Association. From there one can be nominated by member clubs to an executive post during an election. As somebody said new blood is needed. I will never leave an empty post with consequent disruption of years of hard work which several persons dedicated for years.
From now on I will only answer questions related to work being done on sub committee and forward any new information. If this is unacceptable please let me know. I will post only on Federation website.
Gogo
The hidden agenda bit must have scared you Dott hux?
I am hearing a lot of rumours, once I have facts, I will make them public here.
And Gogo, please answer my simple question....WHY NOW....2 to 3 months away fromt he general elections!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So we now also know that Frabel has just printed a copy of all the posts here. Is this intimidation or what?
A hidden agenda does not make me afraid. Who is producing the hidden agenda should beware. I will consider the then no longer hidden agenda if the person produces this document or whatever it is once he signs it or posts it on MFF with his real identity. He can also hand personally the information. As the hidden agenda is made public I will inform the subcommittee and if this agenda contrasts our present position I will resign and report the matter to higher quarters.
Joe do calm down. Do you think that Mr. Frank Abela is that imfamous person to carp posts from MFF and posts them on Federation website. WE post meat which is federation meat and information which i produce from the subcommittee as I do on MFF.
I'm no fool Gogo. Frank Abela printed the full topic. As I said, I'm hearing a lot of rumours. If I can verify them, I will be the 1st person to make them public. I will also ensure that everybody, and I mean everybody, is held responsible and accountable for their actions, and they will have to answer to the 1000s of recreational fishermen.
Quote from: The_Gaffer on November 22, 2012, 15:03:50 CET
So we now also know that Frabel has just printed a copy of all the posts here. Is this intimidation or what?
If you check your records you will see that this is not the first time that I have printed a copy of the thread.
This I have done in preparation for this evenings Federation committee meeting so that if any members of the Federation do not have access to MFF I shall be in a position to offer them a soft copy.
Joe, I hope that you do not find any objection to this.
Sorry Joe I did not answer your last question although I never enter into political issues. I did not start this and who am I to order to a Maltese Authority when and when not to form a subcommittee. I think there are many hidden agendas going on. Well this is Malta.
Gogo
Quote from: Gogo on November 22, 2012, 15:42:37 CET
Sorry Joe I did not answer your last question although I never enter into political issues. I did not start this and who am I to order to a Maltese Authority when and when not to form a subcommittee. I think there are many hidden agendas going on. Well this is Malta.
Gogo
I know Dr. Joe, we're both above politics. But you'd have to be very naive to believe that the present administration is not rushing things along here, very naive.
If there are many hidden agendas,boycott these meetings.And i thought this was only an "exercise".
Quote from: The_Gaffer on November 22, 2012, 15:03:50 CET
So we now also know that Frabel has just printed a copy of all the posts here. Is this intimidation or what?
Joe please indicate whether you have any objections to me printing a copy for the above mentioned reasons, so that I shall delete the soft copy if you have any objections.
I have no objection to you printing a copy. As long as it is used for the right purposes.
So you too Frank Ablea, agree with the way these discussions are being rushed through/...is it a question of birds of the same feather, flock together?
personally,i do have objections. we are not affilliated with the federation,so,whatever is said here should stay here.
Joe, I may be or not be naive. My opinion is my opinion. I have been asked to form part of a sub committee which is part of the Fisheries Board which in turn is still active. Our issue is not political but local administration which should be fair and just for our members of any tendency.
So present Government, future Government of what ever idealogy should carry on with the issues of previous administrations provided these provisions are good for the stakeholders involved.
Joe, I was appointed (always without remuneration) as the sole Fisheries representative on a National Commission regarding Agriculture and Fisheries. The job was done over in one year with meetings ,field work and studying international laws etc and the document presented. This was during the 1994/ 96 LP Government. Sorry I may be wrong with dates. Later Administrations simply shelved the document although I was and am still in the same position. Do you know that many of the suggestions have been implimented much later in time and some are also under discussion now.
I will do my duty as a free citizen and let political issues to politicians.
Gogo
Quote from: Gogo on November 22, 2012, 16:36:17 CET
Joe, I may be or not be naive. My opinion is my opinion. I have been asked to form part of a sub committee which is part of the Fisheries Board which in turn is still active. Our issue is not political but local administration which should be fair and just for our members of any tendency.
So present Government, future Government of what ever idealogy should carry on with the issues of previous administrations provided these provisions are good for the stakeholders involved.
Joe, I was appointed (always without remuneration) as the sole Fisheries representative on a National Commission regarding Agriculture and Fisheries. The job was done over in one year with meetings ,field work and studying international laws etc and the document presented. This was during the 1994/ 96 LP Government. Sorry I may be wrong with dates. Later Administrations simply shelved the document although I was and am still in the same position. Do you know that many of the suggestions have been implimented much later in time and some are also under discussion now.
I will do my duty as a free citizen and let political issues to politicians.
Gogo
Dr. Joe, we're not naive. We hear a lot of rumours, then we have to sift through what people say in a malicious way, and what people say with substance. I still cannot figure out why now, if this has been in the making for so long, why rush things now. And the more you and Frabel side step this question, the more people are asking questions. Because lets face it Dott, if this sub committee has been 3 years in the making to discuss such important matters which will affect all recreational fishermen, why I plead, why rush through now, if they're so important, wait another three years. And you know what Dr. Joe, I am not convinced, and neither are a lot of members here, that there are no political connotations driving this agenda. As I said dr. Joe, I'm no fool, and neither am I naive!
No Joe this sub committe has not been on for three years. Discussions with TM nad FCD re boat registration has been on for 3 years. With two changes in directorship progtress lagged.
This year the new Director continued discussions with TM and since there is mutual favourable discussions, FCD late summer decided to create this committee to engulf the main outstanding issues.
Fishing regulations cannot be passed when you have recreational Fishing boats registered on two different departments. There is no hurry. If election is on and the job is not finished well then it is the responsability of the Government in power to decide whether all the work done by the previous administration should be dumped and start from scratch most probly with an identical unfinished symphony or carry on with most of the work already done and then get the benefit from the result.
Gogo
Quote from: Gogo on November 22, 2012, 17:18:17 CET
No Joe this sub committe has not been on for three years. Discussions with TM nad FCD re boat registration has been on for 3 years. With two changes in directorship progtress lagged.
This year the new Director continued discussions with TM and since there is mutual favourable discussions, FCD late summer decided to create this committee to engulf the main outstanding issues.
Fishing regulations cannot be passed when you have recreational Fishing boats registered on two different departments. There is no hurry. If election is on and the job is not finished well then it is the responsability of the Government in power to decide whether all the work done by the previous administration should be dumped and start from scratch most probly with an identical unfinished symphony or carry on with most of the work already done and then get the benefit from the result.
Gogo
Three years to discuss boat registration? So, it takes you guys 3 years to make up an unfinished symphony, but you expect to put together the symphony of symnphonies in 3 months!
Really, this is a sign of the times, and being repeated everywhere at the moment. Incredible.
FCD is rushing...and you and the Federation should question why all this rush (Unless, as I have already stated, you are comfortable with this -and prefer not to question, as this would upset his master's voice )
@ Gogo you keep saying that even if nearly everyone here is saying that things are being rushed and we are not well informed and fairly represented you cannot pull out of the committee after having presented valid reasons and maybe signatures from recreational fisherman that these talks must stop and begin from the beginning in the right way because the authorities will press on with the discussions without us (the only people that will be affected by all this) being represented. If this is the case and I like many others know that this will happen than we are not living anymore in a democracy. Maybe someone was right in saying for the past year that we are not living in a democratic country anymore.
Are the federation committee members in favour of how the subcommittee is made up.?
Are they fully aware of what is being discussed and what is going to be discussed?
I am under the impression,{actually i have no daubts},that gogo and frabel are ignoring me completely.It is
very evident that this was agreed between them,or,it must be the coincidence of the century.
Mind you,not that i'm bothered or worried,but was wondering why. Could it be that i am with all my might,calling for these meetings to stop? Any guesses?
Please let us know if the person in charge of the fisheries control department is classified in a post of a Director General or only a person in charge of office ...signing in the post of a Director general !!...thanks for the forum to look into this and advise the general members !!
Jahassra kocc leblieb fil vojt. Ahjar taraw min hemm fuq dal ahbicc bord halli tifmu l kuztjoni. Tkarkijr=but, tonn=gageg=but, dipartiment=mghandomx idea, mepa u tat turizmu=biex taparsi serja l affari, federazzjoni= inqabdu gol froga, cermen=miskin minjaf kem jidhaq u flistess hijn jibki f qalbu. miskin iz zghijr u d dilettant ghax iz z---pp huma se jibilewh :(
If one enters the federation website you can download this document http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/85/26/94352685/documents/Fish%20Presentation%20-%2016102012.pdf
in the part about the full-time fisherman it is recommended that they are being put at a disadvantage from part-timers and recreational fisherman so this is one of the things that will be against us. It is very difficult to go against a recommendation from foreign consultants and even more if it in favor of the big guys
Gogo & gaffer ...awaiting your reply re the Director !!.......i am reading all these points and pages and comments, though am not stating own ideas...all what I can say is that we have to start attending these meetings together with Gogo as he always said he always attend by himself...both in the past and in the present.....already enough years passed and legislations were made in not favour re- our recreational fishing methods....thereafter whats been proposed keeps to be proposed with a big backround of the 2 co-operatives related to the full / part fisherman, that dominates the scenarios with strong people that no one pertain upon there decisions....they are strong to affect decisions together with FCD...then whats left is us the recreational..who is very simple to abide laws according to them....
ACCJOLAMAN - kieku jien minflokok....nkun kawt iktar fdiskorsi...il vera li kultant ikolok ragun pero ghandek ferm zball fejn tghid li kollox ghadej qisu xejn ma huwa xejn...nasigurak li dak li huwa ghadej min kumpaniji kbar visa vie mal FCD persee'.....huwa ferm differenti min kif qed tghid inti u oqod atent ma gibx kollox kontra diskorsok..isma minni....il-koperativi huma ta forma ta kumpaniji u bsahithom wisq....u il gvern huwa gvern...u dipartiment huwa dipartiment...hemm nies specifici li qed jghamlu xoghlom tajjeb bdokumentazzjoni preciza....pero jibqa l fatt li zokk mghaweg ma tidritah qatt !!....
Il KELMA EZATTA HIJA - DIRRETUR GENERALI jew AGENT DIRETUR ????.......twegibha konkreta ??
PT tihux ghalik avolja niftakruk naqra ta tifel imma madekx tista titkellem ghaz zghijr ghax mohhok qed jigi ivellenat mil kbarat. qabel mas sajjieda jinaqdu u jiffurmaw kuprattiva tas sajjieda u veru ghas sajjieda qatt mu se titranga is sitwazzjoni la ghas sajjieda u laqas ghal min imuwr iqatta siegha fuqu.
Quote from: frabel
Joe please indicate whether you have any objections to me printing a copy for the above mentioned reasons, so that I shall delete the soft copy if you have any objections.
Given that this is a forum open to all and all posts are search engine indexed, I have no objection to Frank nor any other person downloading or printing this topic.
Skip
Quote from: Pauline Tuna on November 22, 2012, 21:28:14 CET
Il KELMA EZATTA HIJA - DIRRETUR GENERALI jew AGENT DIRETUR ????.......twegibha konkreta ??
Minn ghandi tridha it-twegiba?...nahseb taf sew int!
Iz-zejt dejjem tiela f-wicc l-ilma.
I am under the impression,{actually i have no daubts},that gogo and frabel are ignoring me completely.It is
very evident that this was agreed between them,or,it must be the coincidence of the century.
Mind you,not that i'm bothered or worried,but was wondering why. Could it be that i am with all my might,calling for these meetings to stop? Any guesses?
Dear Caldaland or Max,
This is your second same post. Just go on page 7 mid-page you will find your answer.
Your repeat opinion in most posts is to stop discussions. Fine everybody has the right of an opinion. What made me refrain from answering most of your posts is when you quote " in that case they were lying" " now how can we trust them". That is not the way to address officials doing their job. There are ways and ways how to show your disapproval. This an open discussion on internet calling names and rude words does no honour to the people posting here including me.
Also your club will hold the AGM within few weeks. Hope we can confront our different opinions supported by factual arguments in a polite manner. I am always open to suggestions and facts which I may not be aware of provided who provides such issues takes personal responsability.
Hope that this satisfies your post "I am under the impression,{actually i have no daubts},that gogo and frabel are ignoring me completely"
See you
Joe (gogo)
Dr. Joe - One question. I have just followed the presentation prepared by Posiedon and EMCS, which presents a SWOT analysis I'm assuming was prepared by the consulting companies. I'm also assuming that these companies prepared their presentation following an indepth analysis, including interviews with various stakeholders, probably brain storming sessions, and so on. May I ask who rpresented the recreational fishermen?
let me make it easy for you, if your answer is the Federation, then my assumptions which I have been highlighting here in all my posts on this topic, have been proved correct, and you are only paying lip service to something/someone which you have always subscribed to.
Dear gogo or joe,
In that post i was referring to the fisheries rapresentatives.I am very surprised that you are defending the fisheries and not me,an amateur fishermen.Im a person who always called a spade a spade,and when someone lies ,i say that someone is lying.Thats me! Cannot change now. No "calling names and rude words" were uttered.Please doc,please,do not give me lectures on politeness,If i was not a very polite person i would have revealed what happened when you phoned me in another occasion.
gogo this was stated by yourself "I think there are many hidden agendas going on. Well this is Malta. ".Then,why are you vehemently insisting with these fake meetings?
gogo,I daubt i will attend the annual general meeting of gzira.For what? If the authorities continue imposing stupid rules and regulations upon us,our hobby is finished. One of the reason i joined the gzira club is to protect my buoy,which i have lost,because someone very high in authority decided that he has the right to give the sea to anybody he chooses.Against a payment of course,and illegally!
I have a question.
Are MFC registered Vessels?
Or they only pay the fishing license to the fisheries ??
They are registered. MFC is a boat licence under the fisheries department not a fishing licence
Looks like this topic has died and over with. Good luck all.
We wait for another week maybe there weren't any discussions. The meeting for all recreational fisherman should take place even if there are no discussions with authorities
That is the whole point.We should stop the meetings with the fisheries Board Sub Committee before there is any more discussions! But............there is no interest whatsoever,so what the heck!
Quote from: ganni on November 25, 2012, 10:28:00 CET
They are registered. MFC is a boat licence under the fisheries department not a fishing licence
Nahseb li andek zbal Ganni. MFC mumiex irregistrati ma TM u suppost lanqas jistaw inizlu il bahar. Meta pruvajt naqleb tighi min S al MFC qaluli li irrid inzhom l'S ukoll ax inkella man kunx nist nuza il boat. MFC ihallas bis €23 fis sena bhala licenzja biex jistad flibhra Maltin. Milli qied nfhem dan il Board ekk irrid jamel igib L'S u MFC fi group wiehed, ax L'S ma ghandhom lebda ligijiet rigward sajd.
Fil-bidu hekk kienet li minn aleb minn S al MFC qalulu li rid jibqa ihallas ukoll l- S. imma imbad ghamluha li ma tistax taqleb izjed minn S al MFC u minn kien qaleb MFC seta jinqata mir-registru tal S. Jekk trid taghmel daghjsa MFC tiregistra biss MFC u thallas 466 euro lill-fisheries flok transport Malta imma xorta todd bhala licenzja biex tnizzel l bahar.
Jista xi hadd jispjegali ftit ghal liema raguni qoxra li taqleb min inboard ghal outboard li ghax aktar minn 100 HP ma jistax jibqa registrat MFC u jibqa biss VALLETTA ghara x' differenza se taghmel inboard u outboard ghal fini ta registrazzjoni.
Quote from: Qoccu on November 27, 2012, 18:52:34 CET
Quote from: ganni on November 25, 2012, 10:28:00 CET
They are registered. MFC is a boat licence under the fisheries department not a fishing licence
Nahseb li andek zbal Ganni. MFC mumiex irregistrati ma TM u suppost lanqas jistaw inizlu il bahar. Meta pruvajt naqleb tighi min S al MFC qaluli li irrid inzhom l'S ukoll ax inkella man kunx nist nuza il boat. MFC ihallas bis €23 fis sena bhala licenzja biex jistad flibhra Maltin. Milli qied nfhem dan il Board ekk irrid jamel igib L'S u MFC fi group wiehed, ax L'S ma ghandhom lebda ligijiet rigward sajd.
@ Qaqoccu... Jien ma semmejtx li bastimenti bl-MFC huma registrati ma TM, infatti mumhiex. Li ridt thallas zewg licenzi kienet haga tal bidu meta bdiet l MFC kif qallek sewwa busumark.
Il licenzja MFC hija valida u tista taghmel uzu mid dghajsa. Infatti meta kont ser inbiegh id dghajsa li kelli (li kienet registrata kemm S u kemm MFC), iccekjajt ma TM u infurmawni li kelli inwaqqa wahda minnhom qabel stajt inbiehha.
il lum ircevejt ittra mill fisheries regward it tigdid tal licenzja MFC. (bhala ma ga ntaq) Ha tibda tiggedded meta tkun irregistrata d dghajsa l ewwel darba (mill 2014) , f kelma wahda bhal ma huma l s. w jidher li kollox lest hemm!!!!!...bicca bicca w f ahhar il bizzilla. ilhom jinsetmu dawn l affarijiet , infatti meta xtraj d daghjsa 4 snin ilu ghamilta MFC ghax kien hemm ghajdud regward is sajd.w l s ma jistawx jibqu w haga w ohra etc. xi haga jkun hemm....
mela perezz li daqt gejja elezjoni l affarijiet li qed jigu diskussi ghandhon jistennew w mhemmx ghagla.
ghandna nibqu maqudin ghax jekk noqghodu niggildu ma xulxin jawdu l ohrajn.
w kull min jaf b affarijiet konkreti jghadhom halli jkun jafu li ahna nafu w ma joqghodux jigu bil kummidji.
grazzi
M'hawn hadd lest jisma,allura nerga nirrepeti, "what the heck"!
Quote from: Destination Sea on November 28, 2012, 19:20:51 CET
il lum ircevejt ittra mill fisheries regward it tigdid tal licenzja MFC. (bhala ma ga ntaq) Ha tibda tiggedded meta tkun irregistrata d dghajsa l ewwel darba (mill 2014) , f kelma wahda bhal ma huma l s. w jidher li kollox lest hemm!!!!!...bicca bicca w f ahhar il bizzilla. ilhom jinsetmu dawn l affarijiet , infatti meta xtraj d daghjsa 4 snin ilu ghamilta MFC ghax kien hemm ghajdud regward is sajd.w l s ma jistawx jibqu w haga w ohra etc. xi haga jkun hemm....
mela perezz li daqt gejja elezjoni l affarijiet li qed jigu diskussi ghandhon jistennew w mhemmx ghagla.
ghandna nibqu maqudin ghax jekk noqghodu niggildu ma xulxin jawdu l ohrajn.
w kull min jaf b affarijiet konkreti jghadhom halli jkun jafu li ahna nafu w ma joqghodux jigu bil kummidji.
grazzi
Bir rispett kollhu habib, imma l amendi li saru fit tigdid tal licenzja jaghmlu sens. Kull sena f Dicembru konna mmorru kollha bhal tigieg biex ngeddu l licenzja....
jekk nkunu mqassmin matul s sena ahjar ghax ma taghmilx nofs siegha emm.
Quote from: Granitu on November 29, 2012, 09:36:43 CET
Quote from: Destination Sea on November 28, 2012, 19:20:51 CET
il lum ircevejt ittra mill fisheries regward it tigdid tal licenzja MFC. (bhala ma ga ntaq) Ha tibda tiggedded meta tkun irregistrata d dghajsa l ewwel darba (mill 2014) , f kelma wahda bhal ma huma l s. w jidher li kollox lest hemm!!!!!...bicca bicca w f ahhar il bizzilla. ilhom jinsetmu dawn l affarijiet , infatti meta xtraj d daghjsa 4 snin ilu ghamilta MFC ghax kien hemm ghajdud regward is sajd.w l s ma jistawx jibqu w haga w ohra etc. xi haga jkun hemm....
mela perezz li daqt gejja elezjoni l affarijiet li qed jigu diskussi ghandhon jistennew w mhemmx ghagla.
ghandna nibqu maqudin ghax jekk noqghodu niggildu ma xulxin jawdu l ohrajn.
w kull min jaf b affarijiet konkreti jghadhom halli jkun jafu li ahna nafu w ma joqghodux jigu bil kummidji.
grazzi
Bir rispett kollhu habib, imma l amendi li saru fit tigdid tal licenzja jaghmlu sens. Kull sena f Dicembru konna mmorru kollha bhal tigieg biex ngeddu l licenzja....
jekk nkunu mqassmin matul s sena ahjar ghax ma taghmilx nofs siegha emm.
Jien hekk hsibtha... ma stajtx nifhem ghala irridu ngergru fuq kollox, dan il pass sar biex il licenzji jitqassmu matul is sena kollha u mhux kulhadd f'dicembru. Xhemm hazin dwar dan?
jien "S" u qatt ma hallasta f'dicembru. Jien inhallasa f'marzu. U ili s-snin hekk.
nahseb l fuq l MFC konna qed nitkellmu u mhux fuq l S ;)
Ma jfissirx li jien ma nistax nitkellem fuq "S". ;)
Mhux it-tnejn dipartimenti tal-gvern jewwilla!
bir rispett kollu imma milli qed nara nahseb ma fimtx fuq hiex qed nitkellmu
Jista jkun.li rrid nighd jien hu dan. Jekk ta s inhallsu meta jkun imiss u mhux kulhadd f-dicembru,xi haga ta barra min hawn li mfc gejja l-istess?
Haga ohra.Xi zmien ilu mort naghmel transfer u ma kissirtx kull m'hemm ghax kont ma ragel kwiet.Taf li l-proceduri nbiddlu hux?
Ma nfx jekk smajtx sewwa imma fil budget intqal illi is-sajjieda full time zghar, jekk ser ikun hemm xi stagun maghluq se jinghtaw xi formata sussidju biex jibqghu ihallsu il-bolla.
xi stagun maghluq hu??
"
Il-Gvern konxju li l-qasam tas-sajd jeħtieġ aktar protezzjoni. Konxju wkoll tal-fatt li għaddejjin diskussjonijiet fl-Unjoni Ewropea li jistgħu jwasslu biex jiddaħħal l-istaġun magħluq għas-sajd, il-Gvern jemmen li għandu jgħin lis-sajjieda Maltin f'din l-eventwalità.
Fil-każ tas-sajjieda li jaħdmu għal rashom, fl-eventwalità ta' staġun magħluq, dawn ma jkunux jistgħu jibbenefikaw mill-benefiċċju tal-qgħad. Għalhekk, il-Gvern għandu ħsieb li jiftaħ skema amministrattiva fejn dawn is-sajjieda ikunu jistgħu jiġu mgħejjuna finanzjarjament biex jiġu kumpensati għall-istaġun magħluq, u biex dawn ikomplu jħallsu l-kontribuzzjonijiet tas-Sigurtà Soċjali waqt dan il-perjodu ta' inattività.
L-ispiza hi stmata li tkun kif muri fit-tabella 4.1, li nitlob lill-Kamra tieħu bħala moqrija."
Tul tal-Istaġun Magħluq
Spiża (€)
4 ġimgħat
164,920
6 ġimgħat
247,380
10 ġimgħat
410,300
13-il ġimgħa
535,990
Quote from: caldaland on November 29, 2012, 15:50:54 CET
Haga ohra.Xi zmien ilu mort naghmel transfer u ma kissirtx kull m'hemm ghax kont ma ragel kwiet.Taf li l-proceduri nbiddlu hux?
Bilmod RAMBO!!! :P
ara niccajtaw. ija bidlu kollox u emm ftit tghafig tm. TM.....
lolol. Kieku dak li gara lili,gara lil san domenico savio,kieku kien ikisser kull m'hemm ukoll!
Mela qatt kien hemm xi haga sew fit-TM? Il-fjask tal-Arriva ezempju car :(
a nara xejn hazin li jitqassmu bhala xhur il licenzji. personali ma tghamilx differenza ghax ma kontx nersaq hemm ghax nibghat cheque.
il hsieb ta wara (jekk hemm) regward is sajd li jiddejjaqni.
dak kollu
Please note that NOT all people that have a boat and enjoy fishing are subscribed or joined to a club or forum. If I haven't been a member of MMF i wouldn't have been aware of whats going on with regards to fishing equipment used ect ..
What i suggest is make this topic public through media (news,il-lostra,Xarabank,...ect and other programs which are highly viewed by the public), so anyone involved will be aware of whats going on. Thus impacting the whole sector not only fisherman. having said that, how many of you in this forum are ; owners of fishing equipment outlets, mechanics ect...
one that has a boat that is used for pleasure and goes fishing once in a while he will still be impacted by the restrictions being made.
I've read most of the comments and apart from all the members only a couple have commented on this topic, some of you have decided to talk to the MLP, PN and AD leaders which is a good idea but should be as a last resort.
1.Make the public aware of whats going on and not meeting behind closed doors and with only one representative.
2.have someone report everything to the media on what the meetings are about in detail. Documents ect.
Thank god its a Trojan :)
I think this topic is open to members only... Would it not be better to open to all
I think this topic should be closed.No one gives a damn of what is going to happen,so we might as well call it a day.Btw,i just learned that these meetings are just a cover-up of something much bigger and atrocious to our hobby.
jien tant gie tahwied li intlift u ma bqajt nifem xejn
Quote from: toxictuna on December 01, 2012, 15:07:30 CET
I think this topic is opeon to members only... Would it not be better to open to all
Just like many sites we do not allow guests to post. It causes too many problems.
it takes 2 minutes to sign up and being able to post.
Skip, Guess you are right. Can it be set so that ppl can at least read what is happening?
Emic, me too.
Do the illegal immigrants need to be registered?
what s about that boats that are registered in UK or the itialians that come in our water? can they do sport fishing?
@ caldaland... naqbel mieghek mija fil mija ta xhinu gej. ghalhekk kont qed nirreferi bicca bicca w kollox bizilla.
@ Destination Sea......jiena fhimt dak li ghidt int,biss jien qtajt qalbi.Mhux sew li 0.1% jiggieldu u 99.9 paxxuti jixorbu l-birra!
I've been following this thread from the beginning but decided not the write because the heads were too hot at first.
As said before it does smell faul that these meetings are taking place now (in respect of the coming election) but unless the new regulations will be rushed out rapidly we cannot say anything yet. We have been hearing about new fishing regulations too long and its about time that the current regulations are updated.
I have faith that Gogo will be doing his best to protect the recreational fishermen but I am sure that some new regulations will not be to my liking. However if these are made properly we would all benefit in the long run.
The most important thing is that once the regulations are drafted we get to discuss them before they are implemented. And if some are unjustified we all get together and protest publicly if necessary.
Jien ghandi daghjsa ta 22 pied b mutur outboard 140hp ,registrazjoni Valletta ,skond il ligi li ghandna ma tistax tiregistra MFC ghax huwa concess bis sa 90 hp outboard ,jien deletant tas sajd bhal eluf ta Maltin ,allura jien kif nista naghmel biex nistghad .Hawn xi had li jista itini risposta ???Nahseb li ghandna hafna regolamenti antikawti ,ghal dan il pajjiz ckejken u hemm bzonn li id deletanti ghandhom ikollhom naqra ta delizju ,li wara kollox b sunnar kemm tista taqba hut ????? mhux bhal xibka u tat karkir , Grazzi
Marine 74,
Bhalissa qed nahdmu fuq din il-policy biex titnehha.
Gogo
Prosit Gogo! Jien iehor minn dawk li qieghed fl-istess sitwazzjoni ezatta ta Marine 74.
Quote from: toxictuna on December 02, 2012, 18:41:26 CET
Skip, Guess you are right. Can it be set so that ppl can at least read what is happening?
Emic, me too.
Board opened up for guests to read content
HAWWADNI HA NIFHEM..........
The full time MFA and part-time MFB received a letter from the fisheries that fishing methods are going to be revised. They told them that they will be revised after having discussions with them and consulting them. There will be discussions on different days depending on which fishing gear is used. The discussions will be between the government officials and the fisherman themselves.
@ Gogo is it possible that we have (recreational fisherman) discussions with the government officials concerning the proposed revised fishing methods concerning us.
The above mentioned fisherman are all going to be consulted and not only their representatives at a sub-committee level. So if no discussions are held with us it will be really a matter of 2 weights and 2 measures for some.
What I understand is that they want to put more restrictions on recreational fishermen so that they keep the sea for themselves.
I am not against having some rules for the recreational fishermen but there must be a way for a receaetional fisherman to upgrade to MFB when the fishing becomes more serious.
And since the 100HP outboard limit does not make sense for MFC so must the MFB license allow outboard motors too.
I have been informed that all trawlers have been suspended from fishing.The reason for this is that they were caught using smaller sized mesh.NEEDLESS TO SAY,THEY WERE NOT CAUGHT BY LOCAL AUTHORITIES BUT BY E.U. INSPECTORS.
THE LOCAL AUTHORITIES ARE TOO BUSY DISCUSSING RECREATIONAL FISHERMEN!
WHAT A FARCE!
The trawlers on the East Coast should never have been given a permit in the first place, that is.the biggest farce. Following which after being caught they should be suspended from fishing for at least a year. Otherwise with some lousy fine they will continue doing as they see fit.
And just keep moaning about us
Busumark @ Gogo is it possible that we have (recreational fisherman) discussions with the government officials concerning the proposed revised fishing methods concerning us.
Hi Busumark,
Why ask for discussions when discussions are on for the past five weeks (five meetings) with Representative of the Federation of Amateur Fishing Associations which is the recognized NGO representing recreational fisherman.
As to the Commercial Fisherman meetings, do you think that One and a half hour meeting is enough to discuss Longlines,nets and traps of all kinds? Do you think that a similar amount of time devoted for each caption as Trawlers, Tuna,swordfish and lampuki fishing will be enough?
These meetings are aimed at gather information and complaints from fisherman in all sectors of commercial fishing activity.
On the other hand with recreational fisheries there have been five meetings of over two hours each. More discussion are due in the furure.
Gogo
were the five meetings discussions between the members of the federation only or there was also a representative of the government ?
I still think that a meeting between all recreational fisherman (not only members of the federation) and the government takes place after the federation would have gathered all the information. I am sure that a lot of people will turn up since they are now realizing that this time our hobby is really being threatened. The government will realize that there are a lot of people practicing this sport
Busumark "were the five meetings discussions between the members of the federation only or there was also a representative of the government ?
Well Busumark, in my first posts on this thread I named all the representatives on this subcommittee including the Fisheries representative and legal advisor.
"I still think that a meeting between all recreational fisherman (not only members of the federation) and the government takes place after the federation would have gathered all the information."
Yes, this is the aim of the Federation committee. The Federation embraces seven clubs with close to 2000 members. The National meeting will be open to ALL AMATEUR FISHERMAN.
"I am sure that a lot of people will turn up since they are now realizing that this time our hobby is really being threatened. The government will realize that there are a lot of people practicing this sport "
Yes I hope that in that event people turn up. Sadly enough, Mr. Tony Pace can witness this, the Federation calls an AGM and even when there where issues much worst than this the floor rarely exceeded a 100 person. Still we managed to maintain our hobby. The present situation is not that threatening as maybe some one is saying. The Government knows, because I produced numbers, that recreational fishermen amount to thousands. In fact there are 1647 below 6 meter MFC boats not registered with TM and another couple of thousands if not more in the SSR not registered with FCD and regularly practice recreational fishing, apart from all MFC above 6 meters registered with both authorities. At present the Federation is on the look out at this issue.In fact the Federation ia making a firm stand that no progress can be achieved unless the 100 HP power outboard ban policy on MFC boats is altered or preferably removed. We called for a meeting with the Fisheries DG to thrash this policy before further discussion continue.
Gogo
@GoGo
If it comes down to S vessels needing to be MFC registered with Fisheries, I assume that the transfer will be seamless and without a Fee?!
Eg. if I have a 6m S registered boat, do not wish to leave territorial waters and want to fish recreationally, then my register will be moved from TM to Fisheries at no cost and I will pay a basic annual fee?
Nick not exactly sure what u meant by territorial. But if you have a 6mtr boat and switch to MFC, you don't have a choice but you need to register Valletta.
So it would be an mfc fee and a valletta fee.
This is how I know that it stands.
Thanks GOGO for your reply. Maybe we can understand better when we know all the proposals of the government
Skip "Eg. if I have a 6m S registered boat, do not wish to leave territorial waters and want to fish recreationally, then my register will be moved from TM to Fisheries at no cost and I will pay a basic annual fee?"
Dear Skip for boats above 5.99 meters all MFC vessels are registered with Merchant act i.e Valletta. In practice it is economically better than a registration with SSR. All fishing vessels including MFC in the Merchant act are charged an initial registration of €70 and an annual renewal fee at €61 irrespective of size or engine power. The SSR annual renewal fee for power between 50 HP to over HP 150 range from €80 to maximum of €140 with an initial fee of €50.
For the MFC fishing license there is no registration fee but annual licenses of €58.23 between 6 to 7.99 metres and €81.53 between 8 to 11.99 meters.
Please note that all motorized boats whether in territorial or lnternational waters must be registered with Transport Malta. Those that opt to fish whether recreational or commercial then apply for the fishing license. There will be no registration fee with FCD but only an annual license according to size of boat.
These fees have been in force since 2009 for FCD, 2010 for SSR and 2012 for Merchant Shipping.
Gogo
So for vessels of 6 - 7.99m, and wishing to practice recreational fishing, they have to register as Valletta (total of €70+61) and MFC (of €58.23). Is there no initial registration for MFC then? And is this already in force or is part of the new regulations proposed?
Quote from: Moonwalker on December 11, 2012, 00:03:55 CET
So for vessels of 6 - 7.99m, and wishing to practice recreational fishing, they have to register as Valletta (total of 70+61) and MFC (of 58.23). Is there no initial registration for MFC then? And is this already in force or is part of the new regulations proposed?
Any discussions following today's development is futile.
Discussions should resume after the 9 of March 2013 now. No laws can be enacted now
moonwalker [i]"So for vessels of 6 - 7.99m, and wishing to practice recreational fishing, they have to register as Valletta (total of €70+61) and MFC (of €58.23). Is there no initial registration for MFC then? And is this already in force or is part of the new regulations proposed?"[/i]
No there is no initial registration with FCD for vessels above 5.99 meters as per schedule II L.N. 426 of 2007 amended by XV 2009.49.
Granitu [i]"Any discussions following today's development is futile.
Discussions should resume after the 9 of March 2013 now. No laws can be enacted now"[/i]
As far as I am concerned the Federation nominated me to act on the Fisheries Board which has a three year mandate ( circa another two years). I cannot see why continuation of discussions on non political proposals as Fisheries recreational regulations should stop with loss of previous work done. When the draft proposals will be ready these are passed on to the Fisheries Board and then to the Minister of the day for approval or not. I cannot conceive why a change in the Ministry should not consider the work done by any non political board in a previous administration. The sub committee members propose regulations and do not enact any law.
Gogo
Thanks for the clarification Gogo. The problem is that with outboard one still cant register as MFC since for boats>6m the outboard has to be over 100Hp.
Now the registration fees for MFC Valletta are much cheaper than Valletta only.
Since I am registering the boat these coming days, do you think the 100Hp limit for MFC will be removed any time soon or it will be part of the new regulations set that will be presented to future Ministry?
Moon walker [i]"Since I am registering the boat these coming days, do you think the 100Hp limit for MFC will be removed any time soon or it will be part of the new regulations set that will be presented to future Ministry?"[/i]
We are having a meeting with the Director General on this issue hopefully next Friday. This is a policy not a law. I think that if accepted by the DG it still has to be ratified by the Fisheries Board. I am not a legal man but I think removal of this policy does not need the approval of the Minister. However I may be wrong.
Still I think that this cannot come in force within few days also considering the festivities when usually meetings are adjourned.
Gogo
what I cannot really understand is why for a 6m Valletta registered boat I am paying Eur200 annually, while for a 6m boat registered Valletta and MFC, charges are less!
I might be wrong on this one but if I recall correctly, vessels having both MFC and Valletta registration pay 50% of the Valletta registration and 50% of the MFC registration
Benri "what I cannot really understand is why for a 6m Valletta registered boat I am paying Eur200 annually, while for a 6m boat registered Valletta and MFC, charges are less!"
Benri, simple. With the Valletta register according to L.N. 83 0f 2012, all ships less than 24 metres length overall and less than 50 gross tonnage pay annually a basic fee of €25 and a tonnage tax of €200. Commercial and pleasure yachts have other tariffs.
On the other hand Fishing vessels of category A,B and C pay annually a basic fee of €25 and and a tonnage tax of €36.
Gogo
But don't you still have to pay Valletta with MFC or am I mistaken? Is there some subsidy?
Benri "But don't you still have to pay Valletta with MFC or am I mistaken? Is there some subsidy?"
The point is that when a boat is registered with TM whether in the SSR or Merchant Act (Valletta) the register is solely to allow navigation in territorial and/or international waters. This registration has nothing to do with Fishing licenses. TM are not responsible for fishing. Always remember that 'S' is not "Sport" but "Small Ship Register"
To fish then one applies to FCD for MFC according to size as I have already posted to skip earlier on.
Gogo
thanks for the explanation but some issues are still a bit hazy. Does this mean that MFC Valletta are currently not registered with TM?
Benri "thanks for the explanation but some issues are still a bit hazy. Does this mean that MFC Valletta are currently not registered with TM?"
On the contrary. MFC Valletta which all are above 6 metres so capable to navigate in International Waters are correctly all registered with TM Merchant Act i.e Valletta jew 'tal-bandiera' to navigate (€61) and also have an MFC license according to size of boat to fish i.e. €58.23 for a 6 to 7.99 metre boat.
The below 6 metre MFC are not registered with TM, in this case SSR. These boats cannot navigate beyond the 12 mile territorial waters. This is the anomaly which the departments of FCD and TM are correcting. The Federation is insisting that since these boats have to be registered with SSR the initial registration is waivered as they already paid with FCD and so will pay only the annual SSR renewal fee according to engine power and the fishing license which they are already paying annually.
I hope this time it is clear.
Gogo
Thanks again Gogo. But why do MFC Valletta pay Eur61 (plus Eur58.23) and Valletta only (no MFC) Eur200 for the same sized 6m boat?
Benri [color=green]"But why do MFC Valletta pay Eur61 (plus Eur58.23) and Valletta only (no MFC) Eur200 for the same sized 6m boat?"[/i][/color]
Because TM Merchant Act separates Ships less than 24 metres in five categories:
A) Fishing vessels MFA,B and C. €61
B) Commercial Yachts € 325
C) Pleasure Yachts less than 50 gross tonnage € 200
D) other ships less than 50 gross Tonnage €225
E) other ships of 50 gross tonnage or more. €350
Then there are categories for over 24 metres. This does not apply for us.
You seem to qualify for section 'C'. You do not have a fishing license from FCD but only to navigate in all Waters. This is one of the problems in the present situation which is under discusion.
Gogo
much more clear now, thanks gogo
Thanks Gogo - Very clear now :-)
So hopefully soon I'll be able to get registered under "Section A".
benri "So hopefully soon I'll be able to get registered under "Section A"."
Is it the 100 HP outboard ban that is keeping you back?
Gogo
Unfortunately yes - it is. I have a 140hp outboard.
Yes, we are doing our best to remove this policy.
In our opinion we cannot plan a holistic set of regulations unless all vessels opting for fishing have the opportunity to participate.
Gogo
Gogo
Till now all S-registered vessels have always been allowed to fish with certain types of gear. Is this right going to be retained in the future?
It is good to point out that there are many very small boats with small engines (less than 9.9 hp) or even without engines that are regularly used for recreational fishing with rod or handlines (typically bottom fishing) in harbours and/or just a few hundreds of meters offshore. Most of these are S registered boats and include most traditional frejgatini which have always been used for fishing. Are these S-registered tiny boats going to be forced to move up to MFC to keep on fishing? Or are they going to be given the option to keep on fishing with their S-registration (Perhaps with more restricted, strictly recreational gear e.g. rods and/or handlines only)?
Moving up to MFC would imply a large increase in registration renewal fees for such boats which are typically used by pensioners and the less well off. Boats with engines less than 9.9 hp presently pay 10 Euro for a 5 year registration renewal. Moving up to MFC would take that figure up to 305 euro (61 euro per year x 5).
Dear lazyfisherman,
You just mentioned the anomaly which has been troubling the Authorities for nearly the past two decades.
It all started when MMA took over boat licenses from the Police Licenses Act Cap 128 of 1997 and Fisheries department recognized that there is a growing recreational fishing fleet. Unfortunately there never was liason between the Fisheries Dept and MMA and the result finished that there are fishing boats in two separate different registers.
Please note that 12 foot fregatini (as the one I had 55 years ago) fish by all types of gears even nets. I myself used to venture on the Lampuki Fads. The catches were superb. Jolly good old days.
"Are these S-registered tiny boats going to be forced to move up to MFC to keep on fishing? Or are they going to be given the option to keep on fishing with their S-registration (Perhaps with more restricted, strictly recreational gear e.g. rods and/or handlines only)?"
For sure there are no fishing restrictions different from those of other MFC. That is no nets and surface longlines for Tuna,swordfish and alungi. All other now permitted impliments are allowed. Remember that there are similar MFA and MFB small boats occupied in commercial fishing.
The annual renewal fee with TM SSR will remain as it is. However the Authorities envisage that all fishing boats should have a fishing license. The annual fee for boats under 5.99 metres is €23.29.
I cannot understand from where you got the €61. Maybe you mixed it with the annual renewal fee of the TM Merchant Act. This does not apply for fregatini because they cannot venture beyond the territorial waters.
Gogo
Thanks for the detailed explanation and clarification gogo. Much obliged. Yes, I am sorry that I inadvertently mixed up the fee with that of the larger MFC boats that are licenced with TM to venture outside territorial waters.
Then am I right in assuming that all S-registered boats that want to keep on fishing will be allowed to register as MFC (or whatever new category there might be)?
Thanks once again
Lazyfisherman "Then am I right in assuming that all S-registered boats that want to keep on fishing will be allowed to register as MFC (or whatever new category there might be)?"[/color]
Yes, that is the stand of the Federation that if a MFC licenses is obligatory for fishing then all those that opt to fish are entitled for the license. We cannot leave any body out including those of the 100HP outboards.
Gogo
Does any one knows who came up with or the reason why the 100 hp limit
busumark "Does any one knows who came up with or the reason why the 100 hp limit"
Yes. Kindly either give me your email or email your request to dr.carabott@marcompmalta.com
Gogo
A very interesting read indeed!
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20121212/local/drag-net-fishermen-gather-in-grand-harbour-plan-protest.449303
First I would like to thank everybody for the effort that is being done to safeguard our hobby. We might have different opinions but we should all have the same aim
Secondly I would like to ask a simple question for which I expect a simple answer. I have a 22ft offshore fishing boat with a 225HP outboard engine. Currently it is registered as S and I know I can only travel up to 12km offshore with this boat. I however have the option to change the registration to Valletta. As far as I know it is impossible for me to register for an MFC because the outboard is a 225Hp. But as far as I know, currently it is perfecly legal for me to use my boat for recreational fishing even if I don't have the MFC. Will anything change? Will I still be able to use this boat for fishing (I can undertand that I may have to pay for a fishing licence)?
gaffer,this is what i wrote on december 08.
"I have been informed that all trawlers have been suspended from fishing.The reason for this is that they were caught using smaller sized mesh.NEEDLESS TO SAY,THEY WERE NOT CAUGHT BY LOCAL AUTHORITIES BUT BY E.U. INSPECTORS.
THE LOCAL AUTHORITIES ARE TOO BUSY DISCUSSING RECREATIONAL FISHERMEN!
WHAT A FARCE!"
Dear redhead,
"But as far as I know, currently it is perfecly legal for me to use my boat for recreational fishing even if I don't have the MFC"
The question lies in your statement. Just turn it into a question "Is it perfectly legal?" This is embarrassing for the Authorities.
You are registered with TM SSR and eventually can navigate in territorial waters and if you change to Merchant Act Valletta you can navigate in International waters. The question arises, can you fish? Your boat is not registered as a fishing boat.
According to Fisheries Subsidiary Legislation 425.07
Article 8(a) There shall be kept a Fishing Vessels Register by the Director.
Article 8(b) these shall be identified in the fishing Register various categories of fishing vessels:
A. Commercial Full-time
B. Commercial Part-time
C. Non commercial Recreational
D. Work boats.
So the Fisheries Department caters for all fishing activity including recreational fishing.
One asks how can FCD contol vessels which are not Fishing boats and practice fishing in a similar way as registered Fishing recreational boats do?
The other query is whether article two of the 1934 law re gears without a license as line and hook etc.. in contrast with other licensesed gears as nets etc..., is referred to Registered Fishing vessels or a free for all activity.
If one argues for a free for all activity then all MFC licenses are redundant. However the Valletta registration as a pleasure boat will then be € 200 for all, out board or in board engines for any HP. Also how will the AFM identify these vessels between simple pleasure boats from those that practice fishing. I hope not by boarding all 'S' boats at sea.Also TM does not have any law provision on fishing.
If one argues for an MFC license then all those already registered with TM that intend to fish must be registered with FCD and Fisheries regulations.
At the moment this is been intensely discussed between FCD, TM and Federation representative.
Gogo
Quote from: Gogo on December 12, 2012, 07:37:33 CET
busumark "Does any one knows who came up with or the reason why the 100 hp limit"
Yes. Kindly either give me your email or email your request to dr.carabott@marcompmalta.com
Gogo
Gogo I posted the question on the forum so I would expect the answer to be posted on the forum. Is it possible ? Can it be that someone made a statement to the authorities about the recreational fisherman and the authorities gave in to their pressure without doing any verification or consultation to our detriment. If someone breaks the law they should enforce the law and not take the easy way out.
besides what is the reasoning that with inboards you can exceed 100 hp and outboards no. Both boats can have high speeds so if the speed of the boat is the problem it does not make sense. Could it be that they gave MFC to inboards over 100 hp is that there were a lot of PTF with inboards over 100 hp that did not want to change to MFB so they gave them MFC
Busumark "Gogo I posted the question on the forum so I would expect the answer to be posted on the forum. Is it possible"
Dear Busumark,
This thread turned into a good discussion and as the answer for your question in my opinion does not alter anything against or in favour of recreational fishing, I prefered to answer privately avoiding possible posts which will deviate from the aim of this thread.
Look this was implimented many years ago because MMA fees were so high that many high powered vessels with outboard engines ( speed boats as pleasure crafts ) were trying to register vessels with the fisheries department where fees were much less. The initial registration with SSR for over 150 HP was LM 500 (Maltese Liri). Now these fees have been drastically reduced to €50. Nothing to do with changes from PTF to MFB or MFC.
At the time high HP with outboards was a prerogative of pleasure crafts. Outboards and Z drives were not permitted on Fishing vessels. With the advent of recreational fishing vessels a HP capped at 100 HP outboards were permitted. Note that MFB and MFA cannot have outboard engines of any power.
I hope that this clears your doubts. We are still firm on removing this ban. However it is not a simply task to persuade Authority officials.
Gogo
Thanks for your answer Gogo. My point is that I have no problem paying a fishing licence, be it MFC or anything else. I, however, find it extremly discriminating if they draft a law which would make it impossible for any outboard (over 100HP) powered boat to fish (recriational fishing not commercial).
Anyone into boating knows well that today's outboard motors are greener and more economical than most inboards. All major recreational fishing boats built nowadays carry outboard motors anywhere in the world. I hope this will not be a case of only in Malta.
Can anyone justify why inboard yes and outboard no in 2013?
I also think that to discrimnate between one type of motor or another would be illegal by EU terms as this would lead to unfair trade competition between competing marine motor manufacturers. Whoever is proposing this discrimination should name another place in the world were outboard powered boats cannot fish!
I hope that this clears your doubts. We are still firm on removing this ban. However it is not a simply task to persuade Authority officials.
Gogo
I fully support this statement. There were (I qualify were as there still might be) a number of very high powered business people who own what one could clasify as super yachts, and not normal fishing vessels, and these vessels were registered as PTF, yes, you read right, registered with fisheries as PTF. This was done to recieve rebates on VAT paid when buying engines, diesel, and any other expensive equipment. Il-huta minn rasa tinten Dott!!
When the F and PTF category were changed about 6 or 7 years ago (not a long time ago) they made 4 categories MFA, MFB, MFC, MFD. The F were given MFA, all those that were PTF were given MFB and those who did not want were given MFC. The MFC category had the limit of 100 hp from the beginning so it could not be that the reason of this limit is because high powered boats wanted to turn MFC to pay less. The limit was there before every boat owner knew what was the limit. MFC was going to be the only category for recreational fishing in fact those who were registered S under 100 hp were given the chance to change to MFC. so I think that S registered vessels were not going to be allowed to fish. Than something happened and everything was put on hold and MFC and S registration were considered the same for fishing in fact you could not change anymore from S to MFC even under 100 hp
This issue dates back from the late eighties when the PTF category was created. I was already present in the Fisheries board when the Commercial Fishing representatives at the time denounced the presence of yachts and pleasure boats in the Fishing fleet. There was no recreational category. Gaffer is more than right.
If I recall correctly MMA now TM was not yet created. This situation continued for several years.
The turning point started over eleven years ago with the introduction of Fisheries Conservation and management Act 2001. In this act two important articles involved recreational fishing vessels.
Fisheries Board members article 5 section 2
(2c) one member from among and nominated from amongst members of the Federazzjoni tas-Sajjieda Dilettanti,
Article 38 (e) the regulation of amateur and recreational fishing.
So recreational Fishing recognized and included in the Fishing Directorate.
I was present prior, during and after introduction of Chapter 425.
The debate on recreational fisheries took a long time circa three years with contrasting views between Authorities concerned. The Federation also made proposals and objections.
Finally L.N. 407 of 2004 was issued (now known as Subsidiary Legislation 425 .07) where the Recreational fishing vessels were included in the fishing register (article 8b section c). Now Recreational fishing vessels were legally recognized and had to be included in the Fishing Register. Unfortunately to prevent the registration of powerful pleasure boats even less than 6 metres in the Fishing register the 100 HP outboard capping policy was introduced. This produced the anomaly of fishing boats registered in two different Authorities.
One has to note that up to today the Fisheries representatives say that this policy (not law) was introduced so that speedboats etc do not avoid the TM tariffs by directly registering with Fisheries Department.
Yes I agree with redhead last post.
Malta's Strategic Plan for Fisheries for 2014 to 2020 now is under debate. This sub committee is part of this debate and all these issues are being revised. From the Federation end we denounced that this policy must be abolished.
This is the past and present history of this policy and I hope there will be no future.
Gogo
Well I am no lawyer but I think that in Malta we tend to complicate things when the solution is very simple and we can copy what is done beyond our shores.
My suggestion is that all boats (pleasure, recreational fisherman, etc...) have the same licence with TM (fee would obviosly depend on the type of boat). Than a fishing licence is applicable to the fisherman himself, not the boat. This would mean that a licenced fisherman would be able to fish on all boats registered with TM and other boats which can legaly navigate in our waters. This would also eliminate all abuse regarding boat registration fees etc...
It is the fisherman that needs the licence to fish, not the boat.
This would obviosly only be applicable to recreational fisherman not profesionals.
Redhead [color=green]"My suggestion is that all boats (pleasure, recreational fisherman, etc...) have the same licence with TM[/color]
This is already the situation. To navigate in Maltese waters and / or International waters all motorized boats must be registered with SSR or Valletta accordingly."
"Than a fishing licence is applicable to the fisherman himself"
We are resisting this fishing licence on the person which inevitably will involve also fishing from shore with all its implications. Also which Authority will issue these license. A new law must be enacted with regulations, infingements and penalties. Many other nations have this system with closed zones, bag limits as to weight, size and number of fish. Maltese legislation tends to copy so better let this issue dormant.
"This would mean that a licensed fisherman would be able to fish on all boats registered with TM"
A real nightmare for control by AFM and FCD as boats will not have identification signs/numbers except the 'S' or 'Name' as required by SSR and Merchant Act respectively. To control illegal fishing as nets, traps etc is already difficult and this will make it impossible. One must not simply consider the innocuous most common trolling or bottom fishing with hand or rod but all the non selective gears which anybody can illegally use.
If we settle the 100HP outboard capping I think then the registration issue will be easily finalized. Fingers cross the day is not far.
Gogo
If we settle the 100HP outboard capping I think then the registration issue will be easily finalized. Fingers cross the day is not far.
I agree that this will probably be the best solution, of course given the proviso that any boat from a simple oar-powered canoe/gig/dinghy to a large cruiser can be registered as a fishing boat under the recreational category.
If we settle the 100HP outboard capping I think then the registration issue will be easily finalized. Fingers cross the day is not far.
yes I agree. This would be by far the best solution. Thanks again for the effort to everyone.
To day we had a meeting with the Fisheries Director General.
Agenda: Capping of 100 HP on outboards policy for MFC category vessels.
The Federation representative presented the proposal to delete this policy together with reasons why this policy is now redundant and which benefits can be achieved with its removal.
Discussions took a very cordial attitude and there is an amount of consensus that our request will be favourably accepted. More work has to be done but we are confident that this policy will be deleted.
Due to festivities I think that we will finalize all the work needed and have a definite response early January next year.
Gogo
Thanks for the update,.it sounds very promising and I too have a similar restriction to Benri.
Also as I catch up on the last few pages one can see the sheer level of time and commitment that GoGo has dedicated with replies to each person and such detailed information in his responses.
Dr. Joe I know you have recently commented on the low attendance numbers during the Federation AGM, however rest assured that this topic is very active and being closely monitored by members and non members alike.
A very big thank you from me for your efforts.
Yes, you're extremely right Nick! One must appreciate all the commitment and dedication from Gogo together with the constructive feedback from other members! Thanks Dr Joe and keep it up!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3TicdB8s7A
When you say removing ban from outboards i hope this includes z drives too!
Thanks for all the effort Gogo keep it up.
For a boat registered MFC Valletta, is it possible to fish over the 25nm zone?
My suggestion is that all boats (pleasure, recreational fisherman, etc...) have the same licence with TM (fee would obviosly depend on the type of boat). Than a fishing licence is applicable to the fisherman himself, not the boat. This would mean that a licenced fisherman would be able to fish on all boats registered with TM and other boats which can legaly navigate in our waters. This would also eliminate all abuse regarding boat registration fees etc...
It is the fisherman that needs the licence to fish, not the boat.
This would obviously only be applicable to recreational fisherman not profesionals.
I agree with you completely . Most countries use this procedure without any difficulties and bureaucracy. I don't know why in Malta we always have to complicate things?
I have a boat registered with an 'S' of 4.5 metres with a 50hp outboard . What will I have to do to legally be allowed to fish. Can someone please explain the procedure to me?
Moon out of the 25 mile zone u are in international waters so u can do whatever you want to. Even catch tuna without limitations...... But as soon as u come inside the 25mile zone u are again under Maltese law....so u get booked for the tuna......seriously yes you can fish outside the 25 mile zone, like everyone else. Have u never met with the Spanish and Italian tuna boats out there??
well actually u have to come to the 12 miles to be legally in Maltese waters the 25 is a reserved fishing zone for Malta
Maltaspearo I have a boat registered with an 'S' of 4.5 metres with a 50hp outboard . What will I have to do to legally be allowed to fish. Can someone please explain the procedure to me?
So you are registered with SSR with a boat not exceeding 50 HP. Your annual renewal fee with TM is €30 . Correct?
You still will need the fishing license from Fisheries Directorate. For a boat below 6 metres the annual fee is €23.29.
Please note that presently these changes are not in force. These are the proposals which are being discussed.
Please to not call at any department for registration. Presently nothing has changed.
Gogo
Thanks Shanook that explains it enough.
And yes I have met with other foreign boats and they consider that part of sea as theirs.
Another question for Gogo -
There are some boats registered as SSR (uk registration I think). Will these be able to apply for MFC too?
moonwalker
There are some boats registered as SSR (uk registration I think). Will these be able to apply for MFC too?
As far as I know foreign registered boats cannot fish in Maltese territorial waters.
Last year during the alongi competition I had some trouble with two UK registered boats when Fisheries Officers saw them. On that occasion being a charitable competitions no action was taken but I was warned that this should not happen again. Both owners were told to register their boats in Malta in order to fish. Well I will check with the department to be sure.
Gogo
If a fishing license is introduced, I think it will be against the eu policy not to issue them (foreign reg) with a fishing license since they are not commercial but recreational....something to look into......
As things stand now it's the registration (mfc etc) that is allowed to fish in the Maltese waters.
Quote from: Gogo on December 16, 2012, 21:54:11 CET
moonwalker
There are some boats registered as SSR (uk registration I think). Will these be able to apply for MFC too?
I was categorically told, NO that a UK SSR Registered Boat cannot fish outside of UK waters.
The vessel can be used in Maltese waters for leisure, however fishing evening recreationally, apparenly falls under the FCD and associated local regulations.
In addition, I was reminded that in order to own and keep a UK SSR registered boat, you are obliged as per the UK MCA registration regulations to spend MORE than 185 days in the UK. Presently it seems there is no enforcement of this.....!
It's understandable why people want to UK SSR register......it's £25 for 5 years and there is no size restriction in terms of cruising distance. So a 5m UK SSR registered boat can still leave 12nm from Malta if the insurance so covers them.
As maltaspearo , our system here is overcomplicated and over-priced for the service offered.
Yes, Skip is 100% right.
Today I asked High FCD Officials and this was cinfirmed. UK SSR boats can navigate in Maltese waters but cannot fish.
I fully agree with maltaspero regarding the individual having the licence and not the boat. The licence itself should list clearly the type of fishing gear that could be used. The licence may also indicate any boat type restrictions and solely applicable to recreational fishing. This would be without prejudice to any other applicable laws or regulations which regulate the type and size of fish which may be caught.
windpower
Following up on the statement by skip
"In addition, I was reminded that in order to own and keep a UK SSR registered boat, you are obliged as per the UK MCA registration regulations to spend MORE than 185 days in the UK. Presently it seems there is no enforcement of this.....!"
One of the conditions to be eligible to register a boat under the UK Register Part III (SSR) the person under whose name the boat is registered has to be "an ordinarily resident in the UK".
All the information can be obtained from the UK MCA website.
windpower
Hello Federation, its happening, we are already having problems with the new booklet.... confusion is rampant it seems.
I am a paying member of a club and I have not heard anything yet. I am writing here so that maybe something gets done.
Now you can appreciate why I stated that its ONLY the equipment or type of fishing that cannot be used should be stated on the booklet.
Hi Shanook,
Next week we are resuming the meetings with FCD etc..... on Recreational fishing.
The MFC Booklet reports what the boat owner said during the survey and what was not named does not mean it is not permitted. Mechanized/electrical apparatus are not registered as methods of fishing. Hydrolic winches have been used for decades and never included as fishing method. Bottom long lines are fishing methods irrespective if used manually, hydrolic or electric winch. However we are insisting to included these means to avoid future misunderstandings and speculation.
Presently not decisions have been finalized. We are working hard on the 100 HP outboard ban which from the Federation end has to be removed otherwise no progress can be achieved.
Since meetings are again on further information will be forwarded in the near future.
Gogo
So I am assuming that the old system is not being even considered. That is stating what cannot be used.
Does it mean that we ignore what is written on the booklet? As it never mentions survey but what is permitted by the owner to use while fishing.
L-ahwa, ghalissa nista nghid dan li gej biss:
intom bis-serjeta hsibtu lil-Gaffer ha joqghod kwiet fil konfront ta xi hadd, u minn hu, li b'xi mod jista jimpeddixi, ifixkel, jew iwaqqaf lis-sajjieda dilletanti milli nipprattikaw dak li ghandha ghal qalbna? Ahna tal-MFF naghmlu l-affarijiet fil-berah, minghajr ordnijiet jew karrijiet, u minn irrid jifhimni jifhem. M'ghandiex agendi mohbija, u dak li ghandha naghmlu, naghmluh minn qalbna, u mhux biex naqdu lil master taghna, ghaldaqstant;
Jien passi hadt f'isem l-MFF, u fis-sighat li gejjin inkun nista niccara id-diskors sew.
Fish On - Ejja l-ahwa, ghax gibed
Gogo there are those that are being asked to choose a zone for fishing. Since u are holding talks with the fisheries, dont you think that these should stopped till the talks are over. Since the fisheries is coming out with these new ideas and the federation is not opposing them, to me it naturally means that you agree with them.
Ejja guys, kurag... pressure pressure pressure, ekk jejd il coach....
Quote from: Bin_Gaffer on February 12, 2013, 02:26:43 CET
Ejja guys, kurag... pressure pressure pressure, ekk jejd il coach....
I think its time we start getting nasty with the authorities - and this is the perfect time!
1 jien hadd mill fisheries ma staqsieni x appart nuza
2. hadd ma staqsieni fuq zoni
kull ma ghamlu baghtu biex nhallas , hallast w baghtu il ktieb b' appart li jista jintuza fuq wara.
allura li hadd iehor staqsuh w li hadd iehor le ...x qed jigri.
jien kontra iz zoni w l appart ghandu jkun car mhux hafna termini godda etc..
Ian kill minn irceva il ktieb ghandu mnizzel apparat. Pero jekk tmur biex izzid jistaqsik ghaz zona
Tony: tinkwetax, l-affarijiet mexjin fid-direzzjoni tajba.
Le Joe, Jien ma tantx ninkwieta, naghmel dak li jigi f'rasi. Naf li mhemx ligi Jew legal notice fuq din, ghallura ma jodd xejn.
Imma tal biki li ghandna rapresentanti li huma daqsekk passivi, tal biki ukoll li lMalti jaccetta dawn l'abbuzi ta poter.
Minn jorqod, ma jaqbadx hut!
http://maltafishingforum.com/talk/index.php/topic,4689.msg50904/topicseen.html#new (http://maltafishingforum.com/talk/index.php/topic,4689.msg50904/topicseen.html#new)
http://maltafishingforum.com/talk/index.php/topic,4689.msg50917/topicseen.html#new
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20130227/elections-news/labour-government-to-consider.459338 -
IS THIS RELATED TO US ( MFA - MFB - MFC - S) ....AS THIS ISSUE WAS NOT WELL CLARIFIED...ONLY BIRDS WAS THE ISSUE - THOUGH CERTAIN FISH SPECIES ARE ALSO 'WILDLIFE' - plse who is responsible, thanks to look into it...
I sure hope it applies to fish as well. So that those who do not observe the rules will be stopped. wouldnt it be nice to snorkel and see some fish in the water again!!!!!!! wouldnt it be nice not to see Pariti blocking the bays of Malta!!!! Wouldnt it be semsible not to see kids using Kulpara to catch fish!!!!!!!!!
Rules are good as long as they are sensible and reasonable.
Everyone has a right practice his hobby, We catch fish and there are those that love to observe fish swimming in the sea.
Shanook...its good to note that youre correct in your two (2) mentioned points...though there is a lumpsum of other criteria were one has to think about visa vie to enforce the present laws related to wildlife iregularities !!...to enhance what is stating one has to see for a perspective point of view to all aspects discussed by us ameature....some examples are...limited of catches, catches of species, gear types for hunting etc etc...a never ending !!
ah usually bag limits are related with species that are on the decline. I agree with bag limits but not for the sake of others, to help propagate the fish yes. I also agree with conservation zones as long as they are reasonably placed and aided with wrecks. Regarding species there are already fish sizes in place so no arguing that everyone accepts them although I dont agree with the size of the grouper I think that the grouper should be allowed to be caught small and the big ones should be left alone. Now if deep fishing no use letting go a fish that has decompressed.
All you have said is right and if there is consultation and the rules in place are in agreement with the amateur fisherman than the enforcement can only help us.
There are other things that can be adopted to conserve certain species. but its not that difficult to come to an agreement as long as the rules are discussed by the amateur for the amateur with a sense of responsibility, not with egoism.